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Old November 25, 2019, 09:08 AM   #26
corneileous
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I don’t know, I appreciate everybody’s help and input but I think probably at this point, the best thing to do without having to buy a new gun and feel like I wasted money on another gun, is to just keep carrying the little Springfield as it is, as my primary, every day carry pistol. That just keeps making more and more sense.

I really like, and have always been interested in that little subcompact PX4 but I just never was interested in the fact of how wide they are but, I never took into consideration that the majority of that almost 1.42 inches of spec’d width of the PX4 is in those gawky, bat-wing type F levers; replacing those with the much lower profile type-G levers, and it’s only an 1/8th of an inch wider than the XDE....

Oh well. Just when you think you’ve done enough research....lol.


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Old November 25, 2019, 11:53 AM   #27
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The only other guns I have in my arsenal that I feel would be worthy candidates are any of my three Beretta Storm PX4’s because they are very closely matched to the little Springfield being that they are hammer-fired and they all can be carried with the safety off and hammer decocked but I was thinking that it would be a better idea to stick with the same caliber. I have a full-size 10mm Sig P220 with a 5 inch barrel but that’s quite the heavy hunk of steel to carry around.
Sounds like you actually need another gun. Something for deep concealment, or BUG use. A 380 Mouse Gun, or maybe at least a pocketable micro 9.
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Yeah I know but that would mean buying a new gun.
Exactly what would be wrong with that?
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without having to buy a new gun and feel like I wasted money on another gun
No money is "wasted" on another gun!
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Old November 25, 2019, 12:56 PM   #28
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Sounds like you actually need another gun. Something for deep concealment, or BUG use. A 380 Mouse Gun, or maybe at least a pocketable micro 9.
Well, I do have a Pug 22 magnum in a nice little pocket holster that came with the gun that I probably should be carrying as a backup. Since I wear cargo pants for work and cargo shorts for summer casual, that little 22 mag of mine would fit perfect in the right side cargo pocket.



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Exactly what would be wrong with that?




No money is "wasted" on another gun!

Well, nothin’ really, I just kinda wanted to avoid buying another one since I just bought one. And plus, if I did so happen to get another gun, it would most likely be the sub-compact PX4 in 9mm converted to type G to compliment the 9mm Compact PX4 I have for a carry rotation. The bigger mags would work in the littler one but if I did that, that would kinda make my Springfield obsolete in a way, if the whole point of buying another gun was to get a second EDC that would be exactly like my other could-be EDC pistol in the compact 9.



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Old November 25, 2019, 01:05 PM   #29
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Or I could just say the hell with it, and go ahead and include my 9mm compact storm in the rotation as my Springfield XDE because just despite the fact that one of them is 9mm and the other one is 45, they are both already the same size, and even though the Springfield holds a lot less rounds than my compact, the little 45 still packs quite the punch with the much fewer rounds it carries. I really shouldn’t need any more rounds for it that I would for the 9mm.

I guess one of these days I’ll just have to make another trip to the shooting range and practice up between my 9mm compact storm and my 45 caliber Springfield to just focus on the different recoils to see if it’s just too different or if it’s manageable.


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Old November 25, 2019, 03:19 PM   #30
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It's a sad fact that hammer-fired DA/SA has largely been left out of the polymer single-stack revolution. There really isn't a single-stack analog to guns like the Shield, PPS, P365, etc. The XDE seems like the only option but it is notably taller, has a safety, and I'm not enchanted by the overall design like I am some of the double-stacks.

With the low-profile levers installed, the PX4 might be my favorite DA/SA gun on the current market. I don't know how much real estate the rotating barrel system needs but if they released a slim single-stack version, I'd be all over it. Heck, I'd be open to almost any decocker-only single-stack. It bugs me that the XDE is the only game in town.

I've been thinking about the Sphinx Subcompact, which gets pretty small for a double-stack, but I haven't been able to find one IRL and I'm wary of ordering something that expensive sight unseen.

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I could just say the hell with it, and go ahead and include my 9mm compact storm in the rotation... I guess one of these days I’ll just have to make another trip to the shooting range and practice up between my 9mm compact storm and my 45 caliber Springfield to just focus on the different recoils...
As far as switching calibers, you might be overthinking it. My regular carry rotation includes .327 Federal, 9mm, and .40 S&W. I live in a place where weather and wardrobe are variable throughout the year so I've got different tools for different days. The difference between calibers isn't all that different than the difference between guns in terms of accurate shooting. Just practice with whatever is in your rotation.

As far as individual calibers go, I do think there are advantages to 9mm over .45acp. For instance, you'd hopefully never need the extra rounds but by that same token, you'd hopefully never need to defend yourself at all. The PX4 compact in 9mm is what, twice the capacity as the XDE in .45?

I'll be curious to hear how things go after you've spent some time shooting your 9mm PX4 compact back to back with the .45 XDE.
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Old November 25, 2019, 05:29 PM   #31
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It's a sad fact that hammer-fired DA/SA has largely been left out of the polymer single-stack revolution. There really isn't a single-stack analog to guns like the Shield, PPS, P365, etc. The XDE seems like the only option but it is notably taller, has a safety, and I'm not enchanted by the overall design like I am some of the double-stacks.
Yeah, it is sad there’s not a whole lot like that to choose from anymore. I actually considered the Sig 225 A1 I believe it is, and I think the 229- don’t quote me on that as exact, but it was another discontinued semi-auto by Sig that was very similar to the 225- that was hard to come by and came with quite the price tag.

But since it seems like more and more people prefer striker guns, there’s not a whole lot of call for hammer guns anymore. I’m just glad that Springfield overcame that and came out with their XDE line.

But yeah, with it’s fairly high bore axis and that it has a safety for different modes of carry, I can understand why someone wouldn’t be as enchanted by it. Me personally, as I’ve said, I just look past that because I can still carry it just as I would my storms because even though it still has a safety, it’s in my opinion that the safety/decocker lever is low enough profile that I don’t feel accidentally bumping the safety on will be of much concern. My storms- with those gawky F levers, stuck out like a sore thumb so, irregardless of what Beretta told me about advising carrying the type F model with the safety on, I still coulda carried it just like I do the XDE with the hammer decocked, safety off. But since they’ve been long converted to type G’s, it’s no longer a concern at all.



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With the low-profile levers installed, the PX4 might be my favorite DA/SA gun on the current market. I don't know how much real estate the rotating barrel system needs but if they released a slim single-stack version, I'd be all over it. Heck, I'd be open to almost any decocker-only single-stack. It bugs me that the XDE is the only game in town.
My sentiments exactly. Lol. But like I said before, you take those bat-wing F levers off and replace with the G stealth levers- or even the new Langdon Tactical-inspired G levers, you’re really not even looking at that much wider of a profile than the XDE. Thats why I said also that if I would’ve put that into consideration, I could’ve just stuck with my compact PX4 in an actual holster that was made for it- instead of the beretta leather pancake holster I have that’s really made for the full-size 9 and 40 Storm, as my EDC, or possibly have just gone with the sub compact PX4 that’s even smaller than the compact PX4 I have.



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I've been thinking about the Sphinx Subcompact, which gets pretty small for a double-stack, but I haven't been able to find one IRL and I'm wary of ordering something that expensive sight unseen.
Ain’t heard about that one.







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As far as switching calibers, you might be overthinking it. My regular carry rotation includes .327 Federal, 9mm, and .40 S&W. I live in a place where weather and wardrobe are variable throughout the year so I've got different tools for different days. The difference between calibers isn't all that different than the difference between guns in terms of accurate shooting. Just practice with whatever is in your rotation.
I might be overthinking it as I do with a lot of things but in the midst of all, if you know your guns really well, it shouldn’t be that hard to switch mindsets between the two guns.



Quote:
As far as individual calibers go, I do think there are advantages to 9mm over .45acp. For instance, you'd hopefully never need the extra rounds but by that same token, you'd hopefully never need to defend yourself at all. The PX4 compact in 9mm is what, twice the capacity as the XDE in .45?
Between these two guns, I’d probably feel better taking on an active shooter like in a Walmart with with the Storm over the Springfield- not so much because the Storm holds more rounds, but because the the Storm would be better at longer ranged shots because of the smaller caliber. That Springfield, the 3.3 inch barrel is rather short for an already slow 45; I would think that for a 45 to be accurate at longer than say, 30/40 yards, that you’d want at least a full-size pistol with at least a 4 inch barrel to maintain the velocity.

But either way, even if I was carrying my 5 inch hog leg 220 10mm with the hot V-crown hollow-points, I’d still be pretty leary taking one someone like that unless I could get a close enough effective shot.

But yeah, the PX4 compact 9 holds 15+1 whereas the XDE holds 6+1 or 7+1 with the extended magazine.



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I'll be curious to hear how things go after you've spent some time shooting your 9mm PX4 compact back to back with the .45 XDE.
Oh yeah, I look forward to focusing on that. I like both pistols a lot. The 45 XDE is fairly snappy but it’s not hard to manage and put shots where you want them.




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Old November 25, 2019, 11:19 PM   #32
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I don’t miss “crunch-tickers” at all. My first gun was a Sig P228 and it was a great shooting gun. It was too big for me to conceal carry and I wasn’t confident shooting accurately in double action. I went with a Glock 26 which had a crappy trigger in comparison. I’ve since switched to the Glock 43 and worked on the trigger. While 6+1 is on the low side for round count, I carry 2 extra mags with plus 2 extensions.

If you like DA/SA, carry what you like. I like the consistent trigger pull of Glocks with no external safeties. To each his or her own.
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Old November 25, 2019, 11:37 PM   #33
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I don’t miss “crunch-tickers” at all. My first gun was a Sig P228 and it was a great shooting gun. It was too big for me to conceal carry and I wasn’t confident shooting accurately in double action. I went with a Glock 26 which had a crappy trigger in comparison. I’ve since switched to the Glock 43 and worked on the trigger. While 6+1 is on the low side for round count, I carry 2 extra mags with plus 2 extensions.

If you like DA/SA, carry what you like. I like the consistent trigger pull of Glocks with no external safeties. To each his or her own.


Crunch tickers??






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Old November 26, 2019, 07:16 AM   #34
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https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...nticker.35651/

Crunch: Long heavy double action trigger pull
Tick: Light short single action trigger pull
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Old November 26, 2019, 08:11 AM   #35
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https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...nticker.35651/

Crunch: Long heavy double action trigger pull
Tick: Light short single action trigger pull


Hmm, I’ve never ever heard them called that before.

But I guess I’ll take my “crunchtickers” or “crunchentickers”.... whatever they’re called, over any redundant hair-trigger Glock or pretty much anything like a Glock, any day if the week.

But see, here’s the deal; and I’m not trying to start an argument, just stating how I feel about what pertains to me but if I felt like the first DA shot of any of my DA/SA guns was too much, or if I just couldn’t master the first shot as it was, even with stock trigger pull, I can do a trigger job on mine to reduce the weight it takes to pull the trigger, without making my gun any less safe, or feeling like I need to rely on a teeny tiny two-piece trigger to fight against keeping the gun from going off when it’s not supposed to. Pressing my thumb against the hammer prevents any discharge. Can’t do that with a Glock unless you have one of those striker control devices installed on the back of the slide.

But hey, if you feel safe with your Glock, that’s awesome. I don’t care for them, or anything like them just because of what they are. That was the whole point of striker-fired guns in the first place when they first came out was to help folks who just couldn’t master the first shot of a traditional DA handgun, but it came at a price- sure, you had a more consistent trigger but it was a lot easier to have a ND from one. Facts don’t lie. You use what you feel comfortable with, and I’ll use what I feel good with.


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Old November 26, 2019, 03:26 PM   #36
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corneileous,

The long heavy pull of a DA trigger will not prevent an accidental discharge. I know because I had one when I was younger and less experienced than I believed. I heard a noise outside and went to check it out (I know, stupid on my part. We already covered that). I arrogantly felt that I could keep my finger on the trigger because of the DA trigger pull and my frequent range trips. I heard a loud bang (car back firing?) and I instinctively flinched. I went through the long 12 lb. trigger like nothing and the only thing that saved me was muzzle discipline. I had the gun at low ready and hit the ground about 6 feet in front of me. Would the same thing have happened with a Glock or just about any gun (with the manual safety off)? Certainly. Lesson learned? Keep your finger off the trigger till you are ready to shoot!

I know you are probably thinking accidental discharges where the trigger gets snagged while holstering. If the long DA trigger gets snagged, it can still go off. Glocks can be taken slightly out of battery to prevent the gun from going off when holstering. Is it somewhat cumbersome? Maybe.

My main concern is hitting what I am aiming for if ai ever need to use my gun in self defense. I did not feel comfortable doing that even with regular shooting so I switched to the Glock.

At least we agree that we should carry what works for us personally.
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Old November 26, 2019, 05:36 PM   #37
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corneileous,



The long heavy pull of a DA trigger will not prevent an accidental discharge. I know because I had one when I was younger and less experienced than I believed. I heard a noise outside and went to check it out (I know, stupid on my part. We already covered that). I arrogantly felt that I could keep my finger on the trigger because of the DA trigger pull and my frequent range trips. I heard a loud bang (car back firing?) and I instinctively flinched. I went through the long 12 lb. trigger like nothing and the only thing that saved me was muzzle discipline. I had the gun at low ready and hit the ground about 6 feet in front of me. Would the same thing have happened with a Glock or just about any gun (with the manual safety off)? Certainly. Lesson learned? Keep your finger off the trigger till you are ready to shoot!
I never said it would. You were the one who said that. I probably should have thought to say it outright but what I was implying was that it’s a lot harder to do with a DA/SA gun.

I dunno, I wasn’t there to witness what happened but if you would’ve pressed your thumb tightly against that hammer, your gun might not have gone off. That’s pretty much my whole point. Yes, that longer, twice as hard pull of the trigger makes it a little bit more resistant than the 6 pound pull of a Glock 43 but it’s not going to stop it entirely. It’s just coupled with the more resistance and being able to ride the hammer. You could even put one of those striker control devices on that Glock of yours and accomplish almost the same thing.



Quote:
I know you are probably thinking accidental discharges where the trigger gets snagged while holstering. If the long DA trigger gets snagged, it can still go off. Glocks can be taken slightly out of battery to prevent the gun from going off when holstering. Is it somewhat cumbersome? Maybe.
I was. Holstering is where a lot of uh oh moments occur.

But what do you mean when you say Glocks can be taken slightly out of battery? Are you talking about intentionally racking the slide back a little bit before holstering?

As I said in my last paragraph, you could get you a striker control device and you wouldn’t have to take your gun out of battery at any level.



Quote:
My main concern is hitting what I am aiming for if ai ever need to use my gun in self defense. I did not feel comfortable doing that even with regular shooting so I switched to the Glock.
I can understand that. Hammer fired guns aren’t for everybody just like how revolvers aren’t for everybody and striker fired guns aren’t for ever as well. Just be glad that there’s plenty to choose from for our own needs.

But lemmie tell ya, I used to feel the same way until I started practicing that first DA shot. Before I got the other two of my storms and my new XDE, I would always make it a habit to cock the hammer first before I shot my first Storm because like you, I didn’t care for it. But after extensive practice and realizing the benefit of a Da pistol, it all made better sense to me and why I started practicing with it.

Now it’s why all my handguns have an external hammer and why I’ll probably never go back to the other.

And probably the only time I’d ever own a Glock was if it had one of these-
https://taudevgroup.myshopify.com/pr...control-device

Quote:
At least we agree that we should carry what works for us personally.

Well, it’s not that we necessarily agree, it’s more about what pertains to you doesn’t pertain to me just like how what pertains to me doesn’t pertain to you.




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Old November 26, 2019, 06:04 PM   #38
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corneileous,

The long heavy pull of a DA trigger will not prevent an accidental discharge. I know because I had one when I was younger and less experienced than I believed. I heard a noise outside and went to check it out (I know, stupid on my part. We already covered that). I arrogantly felt that I could keep my finger on the trigger because of the DA trigger pull and my frequent range trips. I heard a loud bang (car back firing?) and I instinctively flinched. I went through the long 12 lb. trigger like nothing and the only thing that saved me was muzzle discipline. I had the gun at low ready and hit the ground about 6 feet in front of me. Would the same thing have happened with a Glock or just about any gun (with the manual safety off)? Certainly. Lesson learned? Keep your finger off the trigger till you are ready to shoot!

I know you are probably thinking accidental discharges where the trigger gets snagged while holstering. If the long DA trigger gets snagged, it can still go off. Glocks can be taken slightly out of battery to prevent the gun from going off when holstering. Is it somewhat cumbersome? Maybe.

My main concern is hitting what I am aiming for if ai ever need to use my gun in self defense. I did not feel comfortable doing that even with regular shooting so I switched to the Glock.

At least we agree that we should carry what works for us personally.
That kind of accidental discharge is addressed by keeping your finger out of the trigger guard until needed. That has thankfully become widespread and standard training now. It's even becoming common in movies and TV. (I'm probably not the only one here who cringes every time I see fingers on the trigger or muzzle sweeps in older media.)

The heavy DA pull provides more resistance to accidental trigger actuation. The Glock dingus and other trigger mechanisms seek to provide similar protection. Preference for DA in this context might be just that: preference. This could be psychological on my part but I also like that my carry gun is not cocked, and that my DA trigger does the cocking.

As far as holstering, proper technique goes a long way. The hammer offers positive feedback for the trigger should something get in the way. This might also be a "peace of mind" issue but I like it.

As far as accuracy goes, just train with what you'll be carrying. Detractors make a big deal about the difficulty of mastering that initial DA trigger pull but really, it isn't anywhere near as bad as some people make it out to be. I learned that way so I'm probably biased, but people I've taught have picked it up pretty quickly.
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Old November 26, 2019, 11:29 PM   #39
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That kind of accidental discharge is addressed by keeping your finger out of the trigger guard until needed. That has thankfully become widespread and standard training now. It's even becoming common in movies and TV. (I'm probably not the only one here who cringes every time I see fingers on the trigger or muzzle sweeps in older media.)


It’s not just that, tho. I mean, that may be for the most part, the majority of the cause but snagging on any kind of clothing/softening leather on leather holsters, or virtually anything that could get in the way. Doesn’t always have to be some yo yo with his finger inside the trigger guard.


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Old November 27, 2019, 12:34 AM   #40
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You have the following:

1xSpringfield XDE 45 Compact
3xBeretta PX4 Storm (I think you have a one each in 9mm, 40 S&W and 45 ACP)
1xSIG P220 10mm 5"

Honestly, you don't really need another gun unless it's a very small one such as the Kahr PM9, SIG P365 or Glock 43. I prefer to have at least two copies, identically setup, for every carry gun.

I am not sure why you are worried about a "rotation". Are your guns tied to a carry license in some way, such as those in California?

If you must decide, choose one small, medium and large. This gives you versatility so you can conceal with a wider variety of clothing.

Personally, I'd probably stick with two of the Berettas, dump the Springfield (spit on them!), and add a smaller gun.

You may find it useful to have the same action for all guns in the rotation so the trigger operation does not change. This is the beauty of Glocks, HK P30's, SIG P-Series or P320, etc.
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Old November 27, 2019, 07:21 AM   #41
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You have the following:



1xSpringfield XDE 45 Compact

3xBeretta PX4 Storm (I think you have a one each in 9mm, 40 S&W and 45 ACP)

1xSIG P220 10mm 5"



Honestly, you don't really need another gun unless it's a very small one such as the Kahr PM9, SIG P365 or Glock 43. I prefer to have at least two copies, identically setup, for every carry gun.



I am not sure why you are worried about a "rotation". Are your guns tied to a carry license in some way, such as those in California?



If you must decide, choose one small, medium and large. This gives you versatility so you can conceal with a wider variety of clothing.



Personally, I'd probably stick with two of the Berettas, dump the Springfield (spit on them!), and add a smaller gun.



You may find it useful to have the same action for all guns in the rotation so the trigger operation does not change. This is the beauty of Glocks, HK P30's, SIG P-Series or P320, etc.


I’m not really worried about a rotation for any specific reason, I just thought about using one of my other handguns as an every once in a while alternative. No real rhyme or reason to do so.

But in order to have two copies as you prefer, I would have to buy another gun and I’ve already stated I’d rather not do that when I feel like I already have at least one or two worthy candidates.

But OK, I’m not gonna ask what your beef is with Springfield but, out of the three Berettas I have, which two are you suggesting? I’m assuming you’re talking about the compact 9 mm and the full-size 40, correct? Which, if I wasn’t interested in carrying a thinner profile handgun, I could’ve just not bought the Springfield as I could’ve just rotated between my compact 9mm and my 40 but, I wanted a much thinner profile compact size which is why I bought my XDE because it’s exactly that and Beretta does not make a single stack PX4.

But see, I do have the same trigger between my Springfield and my PX4s. Well, they may be different by a pound or two but they’re still roughly the same. As a matter of fact, the Springfield is about a pound lighter than what I was already used to with my PX4s.


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Old November 27, 2019, 07:27 AM   #42
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I love wheel guns as my EDC, this one here is my edc for today. revolvers are hands down the best EDC


I don’t argue against that entirely but carrying around a full-size revolver like that isn’t for me. I know there are some revolvers out there that hold seven rounds which would be matched to how many rounds my little 45 XDE holds but, I don’t care for a TDA shot every shot. I don’t mind the first one for safety reasons but after that I want to be able to fire this pistol off fairly quickly if I need to.


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Old November 27, 2019, 09:11 AM   #43
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I get it, its the same reason people don't like to carry revolvers....the reloading ammo take forever in a delicate situation...not just the amount of rounds it carries. someone with a semi would punch in another mags and start shooting. revolvers are pretty cool and the calibers makes it very favorable for me.


I can respect that. There are a couple revolvers I would like to add to my collection someday but as far as carrying one, I’d just rather have my semi auto. I do intend on carrying my little Pug 22 magnum as a backup just because it’s so small but I could see adding a little 38 revolver into my backup rotation.

But I would like someday to have an ole Smith and Wesson Model 29 44 and maybe perhaps a 5inch Smith and Wesson 500 as “conversation” pieces....


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Old December 1, 2019, 12:29 PM   #44
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My two choices for carry are a P365 and when more concealment is needed, a Ruger LCP2.
Oddly the little Ruger finds its way into my pocket more than I ever thought it would.
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Old December 1, 2019, 03:08 PM   #45
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My two choices for carry are a P365 and when more concealment is needed, a Ruger LCP2.
Oddly the little Ruger finds its way into my pocket more than I ever thought it would.
But, but, but....the OP, in no uncertain terms, says a striker, the Sig365 or say, Glock 26 is ever going to be in his rotation...so.......
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Old December 1, 2019, 05:15 PM   #46
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Can't believe it hasn't been suggested yet. CZ PCR. I have an XD Mod 2 in .45 I'm very, very accurate with. Best handgun I've used in the LE qualification course. I like the capacity, handling, the way it carries. Seemed to the the best .45 carry option for me.

Wanted something a bit lighter but not more polymer. Being a CZ guy I searched until I found a PCR. Its been 3 years now and it still my favorite EDC. The thing just rocks. Get the decocker and grin, send it to CGW if personal preference prods you. I also bought a RAMI (safety model). More concealable but I like the PCR much more.
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Old December 1, 2019, 05:48 PM   #47
corneileous
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But, but, but....the OP, in no uncertain terms, says a striker, the Sig365 or say, Glock 26 is ever going to be in his rotation...so.......


Yeah, I didn’t say anything against striker-fired guns, nor did I say anything about buying anything new, but I wasn’t gonna point it out.


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Old December 2, 2019, 08:05 AM   #48
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Yeah, I didn’t say anything against striker-fired guns, nor did I say anything about buying anything new, but I wasn’t gonna point it out.


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But hey, if you feel safe with your Glock, that’s awesome. I don’t care for them, or anything like them just because of what they are. That was the whole point of striker-fired guns in the first place when they first came out was to help folks who just couldn’t master the first shot of a traditional DA handgun, but it came at a price- sure, you had a more consistent trigger but it was a lot easier to have a ND from one. Facts don’t lie. You use what you feel comfortable with, and I’ll use what I feel good with.
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Old December 2, 2019, 09:24 AM   #49
corneileous
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Last bolded most important, pf course.


Well yeah, I had forgotten that I had said that at one point but I was primarily talking about not mentioning those parameters in my opening post, that most people only read.

But yeah, for the record, I’m not currently looking to buy a new gun- and I’m not looking at anything striker-fired.


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