.223 enough for deer

[223nut]

Sure you can kill a deer with a 223. 60gr Nosler Partition will do the trick. I would say 100yds or less.

[Colorado Redneck]

Taylorce--
You are correct about the ballisic requirements for hunting rifles in Colorado. That regulation was in effect when we were hunting with the gun. We lived out in the hills in western Colorado, and were never approached by a game warden. The hardware store sold more 25-35 ammo than any other caliber. It was a great little gun. My brother sold the gun in 1970....that was dumb...it was a pre-64 model in great condition. The statute of limitations has expired. :-) I can't brag about being a "straight arrow" but eventually all of us grew up, and left those times behind.

[CamoCop]

truth be told, more deer have been taken with .22's by poachers than any other caliber. i, as a kid, learned to hunt with a .223 and never had a problem downing deer. it's all about shot placement. you can shoot a deer with a .338 in the guts or hind quarters and never find it.

[Loaded4yote]

I would have to agree with CamoCop.

In my area firearms must be .22 caliber centerfire in order to take a deer. That means .22 hornet is legal. Granted I doubt I would use my Hornet as a deer rifle, but both my granfathers shot many, many deer with a .22 long rifle.

Last year I took my only buck with my .22-250. The deer never knew he was hit.

Shot placement is important. So is the design of the bullet.

For example: If you reload .22-250 in the 32 gr Barnes Varmint Grenade. Don't expect a deer to drop in it's tracks.

At the same time with a round in .223 or .22-250 loaded with Remington's 55 gr Soft Point. The expansion is controled, the wound cavity would be more along the lines of the type of bullet you would hunt with.


Basicly it boils down to the bullet. Not the rifle.

[22-rimfire]

I personally feel that the 223, 222, 22-250, 218 Bee, and 22 Hornet are all too small for an effective deer caliber on normal sized whitetail deer. Sure, you can do it, but a lot depends on you. My rule of thumb is 243/6mm or larger for whitetail and I prefer something in the 270 thru 30-06 range. But I know, if it is legal in your state, you'll use your 223. So, I don't know why you bothered asking. It is a fairly common thread topic here and the AR fans all want to hunt deer with their AR's in 223.

[Boris Bush]

I have relatives that were alive when a 22 rimfire was legal to use (in my home state) and more deer fell to that caliber than I have ever shot with shotguns pistols and rifles combined. A larger caliber will not magicaly "kill" better. I have watched a deer get shot by a .375 H&H only to run into the nastiest tangle of underbrush I ever did see. The shooter claimed He missed and was ready to giveup. I heard the bullet impact and went into that tangle despite the experts proclimation of a miss. It was soooo thick I left my rifle benind and got on hands and knees to get into it. The deer was shot too far back with a bullet too heavily built for deer and went through with little damage done inside. It was also still alive and was finished with a pistol round to the head.

If this hunter would have had a .223 it would be a great reason to not use a .223, but it wasn't a .223. Any caliber is inadequate if you place your shot wrong, not just a .223. While I have shot deer with a 22 Hornet and a couple with .223 I would not do it on purpose, if it was all I had I would make do. Just like any caliber you have to make sure you use the proper projectile...

[Charles S]

In most states, the .223 is not considered a legal cartridge for deer.

Will it do it? Yes.
Can I kill one with it? Yes.
Can you? That is the question.
Is it legal? No.
Is it sufficient? No.

Is it recommended? No


Use the cartridges that you have already proven to be successful and leave the .223 to coyotes. Why experiment with the .223 just to see if YOU can do it after all the advice here recommends not to?

Excellent post....

However if you use premium bullets and keep your shots to broadside and under 50-75 yards it is adequate....., but why when there are so many better choices?

[sureshots]

Yes, the 223 Cal. is enough gun for whitetail deer, in the right hands that is. Its all about shot placement and knowing your weapon and its limitations. You have got to realize you are not shooting A 30-06,7MM Mag. or another of the large cals. You will learn that the 223 Cal. will not be as forgiving as one of the big bangers. Choose your shots wisely and you will be OK. Hornady has A 75gr. soft point that works great on whitetails.

[Loaded4yote]

Hornady has A 75gr. soft point that works great on whitetails

Right, however, you should be sure your rifle will fire the bullet accuately enough. Hornady recommends rifles with a 1 in 9 or faster twist rate for bullets over 65 gr.

Most factory bolt action rifles will have 1 in 12 or slower twist for the lighter bullets.

IMHO Best bet is find a round that shoots well and isn't designed to fragment on impact and has good penetration.

And I'd have to agree shot placement is a huge factor with smaller caliber rifles.

[sureshots]

Loaded4yote, I agree with you one hundred percent. Sounds as if you know your stuff. Thanks for the imput.

[TheNatureBoy]

You CAN harvest deer with a .223 but.............. I wouldn't hunt deer with a .223 myself. I'd start with a .243. Thats just me : )

[aerod1]

In November 2001 I had heart surgery (4 way by pass) and I wanted to go deer hunting in December, after Christmas. My surgeon was not real pleased but told me to use nothing larger than a 223. I did so and Xeroxed an eight point buck and a doe. I was using a NEF Handi-Rifle with a 223 55 gr. V-max bullet. It is all about shot placement. My brother and my best friend did all of the field dressing and skinning which means it was a great year.

[TheManHimself]

I've heard that in Iraq and Afganistan, a 62gr .223 FMJ bullet is being used quite effectively on animals roughly the same mass as deer, which may or may not be so doped up on opium they don't even feel the pain of being shot, may or may not be wearing body armor, and in most cases are shooting back. Unless you consider the average Whitetail to be a tougher and more dangerous game animal than the above, I would say that if .223 is legal for deer where you live, then a .223 loaded with a 60-70gr bullet made for deep penetration (i.e. Nosler Partition, Barnes TSX) is perfectly adequate for deer as long as you're a good enough shot to place it in the vitals.

[Fremmer]

Unless you consider the average Whitetail to be a tougher and more dangerous game animal than the above

Deer are tougher than humans. If you disagree, wait for the next blizzard in your area, bed down underneath a tree all night, and then root around in the snow in the morning for breakfast.

Oh yeah, and then get gut shot by a .223, and run for miles.

[Yellowfin]

Using as small of a caliber on deer as you can get away with is like sleeping with the ugliest woman you can without throwing up. Sure you can do it, but why?

[TheManHimself]

A gut shot is poor shot placement, because puncturing the digestive tract doesn't immediately begin causing the brain to die. I wouldn't consider it ethical to take a shot that I can't guarantee is going to cause an immediately lethal wound. If that means not getting a shot at all, so be it. Taking a less than perfect shot and only wounding a game animal is unsportsmanlike behavior whether you're wielding a .22lr or a cannon. If your weapon isn't accurate enough, or if you aren't a good enough marksman to place your shot into the deer's vitals under whatever conditions, you wait for a better shot, one you know you can make, or you don't take the shot at all. You put a .223 TSX through a deer's heart and lungs, and it will kill it just as dead as any other bullet penetrating those organs. You make a bad shot and you can wound a deer even with a .300 Wby mag.

And we're talking about harvesting deer with bullets, not blizzards. A deer's flesh might keep out the cold better than an insurgent's unkempt beard, but it certainly isn't any more bulletproof than his. You really think humans aren't as tough as other members of the animal kingdom? You ought to see SEALs or Spetsnaz in training. The human body can take just as much punishment as any similar-sized animal, and any weapon that will reliably kill a man is quite adequate for the taking of medium-sized game animals.

[RedneckFur]

I think its a great deer cartridge if you know what youre doing. My uncle only hunts with a .223 and all his deer drop in their tracks. A good varmit bullet will absolutely destroy the heart and lungs where a heavier bullet just makes a wound channel. My father hunts with a .22mag, and He's never lost a deer either. I think marksmanship trumps caliber any day.

Nothing makes me chuckle like those guys that hunt eastern whitetails with a .300 win mag. Its too much gun.

[Fremmer]

You really think humans aren't as tough as other members of the animal kingdom?

Yes, I do. The average deer is much tougher than the average human. Deer jump higher, run faster, run for farther distances, have far keener perception, don't require houses for shelter, and live in blizzards, rainstorms, and other conditions that humans simply can't endure. And they do it day after day. Without doctors, television, and fast food. I've seen deer run for miles after being gut shot. I seriously doubt that the average human could run for miles after being gut shot. Heck, the average exceptional human (like a SEAL) probably couldn't do it, either. Humans just are not built for that kind of endurance. They sure can type well, though.

Look, if you want to hunt deer with a .223, do it. That may be OK in your state. But with larger deer in the northern states, the .223 is great until the shooter screws up and pulls a gut shot. A larger caliber gives the shooter a little more killing power after pulling a gut shot; the deer may still run, but hopefully not as far as it would with a smaller caliber. Likewise, a larger caliber smashes through bone and penetrates better than a smaller caliber. Which is the rationale for state laws requiring minimum calibers and/or minimum foot pounds of energy for deer hunting.

I understand the .223 may be fine for small-sized deer in certain areas of the country. But it is not fine for larger deer in other areas of the country, Which is why it is illegal to shoot deer with a .223 in many states. JMHO.

[karen429]

Just because a cartridge will kill a dear doesn’t’ mean it’s an appropriate cartridge to use. The .223 is not a deer cartridge.

[sureshots]

Driving A bigger Car doesn't make you A better Driver. That said you could also apply this thought to our discussion. SHOT PLACEMENT,SHOT PLACEMENT,SHOT PLACMENT.

[Fremmer]

Yup, everyone who hunts knows about shot placement. And being sportsmanlike. And about waiting to take a perfect shot. And about taking the perfect shot.

But stuff still happens. Maybe the deer moves at the exact moment that you pull the trigger. Or your scope is a little off. Or the unthinkable -- you pull the shot just a little! I know, I know, that would never happen, all of your shots are always perfectly placed. Even though your heart is pounding, you are breathing hard, you are excited, it is windy, and the deer doesn't stand perfectly still like it is supposed to.

[sureshots]

If A 7mm Mag. or A 300win are perfect for moose, than don,t you think they are much too much for A whitetail deer? Really, A 243 cal. is about all anyone should need for whitetail. I agree that the 223 and the 22-250 are A little lite for whitetail but in the right hands they can do the job. I have A 223 and to be honest I never shoot deer with it. I perfer to use something that shoots at least A 100gr. bullet. The main thing is to use A gun that will do the job and that you love to shoot whatever the CAL.

[taylorce1]

Nothing makes me chuckle like those guys that hunt eastern whitetails with a .300 win mag. Its too much gun.

There is no such thing as too much gun. Dead is dead as far as I'm concerned, if you want to hunt deer with a .300 Magnum or a .375 H&H it is the hunters choice. Just like hunting with the .223 is the hunters choice, do I think there are better calibers? Yes, but I will not fault a guy for using one where it is legal to do so. If it is the only rifle you have go ahead and use it but if you have a better choice of rifle in the safe then I have to ask, Why?

The argument if it will kill a human why not a deer? That doesn't work to well for me because the Military dictates what rounds our soldiers (and I'm one)will use. As hunters we don't get told what to use but are generally given some suggestions in our States hunting regulations, and they will tell us as well what isn't legal. As far as I know the only rifle that is too much gun in some States to hunt with is the .50 BMG, and they are more worried about the bullet not stopping more than anything.

[Loaded4yote]

There is no such thing as too much gun.

.500 Nitro Express 3" on a deer would be a bit much unless you're really into deer burgers.

[taylorce1]

.500 Nitro Express 3" on a deer would be a bit much unless you're really into deer burgers.

That is a lot of gun, but it would probably do less meat damage than you think. Probably less damage than what a .223 with an improperly selected bullet or any of the standard magnums commonly used would do to a deer. Slow moving bullets really don't tear things up too bad.