Storing Black Powder

Deltadart · June 28, 2021, 02:06 PM

I live in the Pacific Northwest and as you probably have see on the news we are having the once in a thousand years heat wave. Wildfires are always a concern out here, especially if you live in a rural area. I am trying to find ways to lessen the risk to firefighters should my property become threated by a wild fire. One on my worries is black powder storage, loaded ammo is always in military style cans and will cook off fairly safely. Black powder and Pyrodex are in cans on a shelf on my loading bench in the detached garage. Should the worst happen I want a way to store the few pounds of powder I have. I would like to hear what others have done or think to compare with my solution. Here is what I am doing, take a 55 gallon plastic drum, cut the end off and flip it over for a lid, actually works pretty well. Bury the drum vertically in an area about 30 yards from the garage in a spot with little vegitation or trees. Leave 2-3 inches of the drum above ground. Put the lid on and secure lightly. There are no weeds there as they are kept mowed, only a couple of trees so no fuel to suppot a fire. A fire would burn by quickly so heat exposure will be over soon, even so it would just go woosh and be directed straight up, the lid becoming a frizby. The idea is to remove the threat of an explosion to fire fighters attempting to save the place should the garage be exposed to fire even though it is metal sided. Certainly there is plenty to worry about in there, spay paint, solvents, that sort of stuff, but that is different from 4 pounds of 3f going up. I have a lot of years of military experience with munitions storage, and my family has seveal firefighters in it. So far this seem like a good idea to everyone. The property is insured so as bad as it would be, things can be replaced. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Oliver Sudden · June 28, 2021, 03:24 PM

Having seen a full metal can of black powder set off in a fire I keep my powder on an open shelf. Uncontained the can is a big pop and merely unfolded the can. As you stated the other items like paint or flammable substances are more hazardous to firefighters.

Deltadart · June 28, 2021, 04:45 PM

Or propane bottles. In my case my worst worry is the boat, it has up to 52 gallons of gasoline in it, even though stored in its own boat house that would be one of the first issues, but the fire guys can see that and take appropriate action. This fall I will build a proper flammable storage for all the powders, fuels, and paints.

Old Stony · June 29, 2021, 11:14 AM

Storing powder is something that will not let it build a lot of pressure is the best way. If a guy left a bunch of powder locked in a safe, it could be quite an explosion, but stored in a container with a weak wall would work a lot better. Many years ago when I had a gun shop and carried black powder, I was required to store it in such a manner. I had a document safe and used it with the top not attached to the bottom, so it could not build pressure.

Deltadart · June 29, 2021, 11:28 AM

In my military experience we worked on munitions from nuclear, to large bombs, missiles, and very tiny explosives, the maintenance buildings had blow away roofs in order for a blast to be directed upward. Maintence crews were exposed, but not support personnel as they were in adjacent buildings. Same idea as your safe. That is the reason I am putting the BP in an area away from the buildings. When not confined the BP will not normally have a blast, but why take a chance. This is a simple, effective, and cheap way to eliminate the hazard. Also moving the propane bottles to a safer area.

Pahoo · June 29, 2021, 11:46 AM

Although I take most videos, on YouTube, with a grain of salt. There are a few videos that might just "catch-the-sprit" of your question. Personally, I store my small amount in a sealed metal ammo can, in a somewhat isolated corner of my basement. A lady whose husband had passed away, called me and asked me to help her dispose of a 15LB keg of BP. She had it sitting on her garage floor, close to her one of her cars. I laid it outside, against the garage and arranged for it's disposal. ......

Be Safe !!!

Deltadart · June 29, 2021, 12:35 PM

I only have a few pounds of BP, but 15 pounds seems like a lot to me. Especially in part of the house, like an attached garage. I too view youtube with a few grains of salt, but will look at them .

Bob Willman · June 29, 2021, 12:35 PM

In 1995 we has a house fire. The fire marshal said he knew within 6 feet of where it started in the basement but no idea why - probably electrical but that was on averages. No one was home. My reloading, bullet casting, ham radio shack and electronic workbench was all in that area near where it started. In a built-in floor to ceiling wood cabinet is where my powder was stored. Mostly smokeless with 3 or 4 cans of black powder. Except for the two 8 pound containers of H4831 it all was in metal cans - 60 pounds in all. The metal cans had the soldered finger joints. The soldered joints were melted open and about half way but nothing exploded.

Bob
WB8NQW

Jim Watson · June 29, 2021, 12:44 PM

I have, salvaged from my burned out house after The Incident of 2010, a whisky bottle and a Goex powder can with scorched labels. The contents are fine. Were fine.

Deltadart · June 29, 2021, 07:17 PM

thank God the whiskey was OK.

Deltadart · June 29, 2021, 07:24 PM

Actually munitions involved in a fire should be suspect, the propellant / explosives can become unstable.

Jim Watson · June 30, 2021, 11:11 AM

Yes, I had some ammo with cooked nitro I shouldn’t have shot.
But there isn’t much that can happen to black if it is not wetted or ignited.

June 28, 2021, 02:06 PM	#1
Deltadart Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2015 Location: Washington State Posts: 286	Storing Black Powder I live in the Pacific Northwest and as you probably have see on the news we are having the once in a thousand years heat wave. Wildfires are always a concern out here, especially if you live in a rural area. I am trying to find ways to lessen the risk to firefighters should my property become threated by a wild fire. One on my worries is black powder storage, loaded ammo is always in military style cans and will cook off fairly safely. Black powder and Pyrodex are in cans on a shelf on my loading bench in the detached garage. Should the worst happen I want a way to store the few pounds of powder I have. I would like to hear what others have done or think to compare with my solution. Here is what I am doing, take a 55 gallon plastic drum, cut the end off and flip it over for a lid, actually works pretty well. Bury the drum vertically in an area about 30 yards from the garage in a spot with little vegitation or trees. Leave 2-3 inches of the drum above ground. Put the lid on and secure lightly. There are no weeds there as they are kept mowed, only a couple of trees so no fuel to suppot a fire. A fire would burn by quickly so heat exposure will be over soon, even so it would just go woosh and be directed straight up, the lid becoming a frizby. The idea is to remove the threat of an explosion to fire fighters attempting to save the place should the garage be exposed to fire even though it is metal sided. Certainly there is plenty to worry about in there, spay paint, solvents, that sort of stuff, but that is different from 4 pounds of 3f going up. I have a lot of years of military experience with munitions storage, and my family has seveal firefighters in it. So far this seem like a good idea to everyone. The property is insured so as bad as it would be, things can be replaced. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

June 29, 2021, 11:46 AM	#6
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	YouTube has some videos Although I take most videos, on YouTube, with a grain of salt. There are a few videos that might just "catch-the-sprit" of your question. Personally, I store my small amount in a sealed metal ammo can, in a somewhat isolated corner of my basement. A lady whose husband had passed away, called me and asked me to help her dispose of a 15LB keg of BP. She had it sitting on her garage floor, close to her one of her cars. I laid it outside, against the garage and arranged for it's disposal. ...... Be Safe !!! __________________ 'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing.

June 28, 2021, 03:24 PM	#2
Oliver Sudden Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2017 Location: Colorado Posts: 272	Having seen a full metal can of black powder set off in a fire I keep my powder on an open shelf. Uncontained the can is a big pop and merely unfolded the can. As you stated the other items like paint or flammable substances are more hazardous to firefighters.

June 28, 2021, 04:45 PM	#3
Deltadart Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2015 Location: Washington State Posts: 286	Or propane bottles. In my case my worst worry is the boat, it has up to 52 gallons of gasoline in it, even though stored in its own boat house that would be one of the first issues, but the fire guys can see that and take appropriate action. This fall I will build a proper flammable storage for all the powders, fuels, and paints.

June 29, 2021, 11:14 AM	#4
Old Stony Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2013 Location: East Texas Posts: 1,705	Storing powder is something that will not let it build a lot of pressure is the best way. If a guy left a bunch of powder locked in a safe, it could be quite an explosion, but stored in a container with a weak wall would work a lot better. Many years ago when I had a gun shop and carried black powder, I was required to store it in such a manner. I had a document safe and used it with the top not attached to the bottom, so it could not build pressure.

June 29, 2021, 11:28 AM	#5
Deltadart Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2015 Location: Washington State Posts: 286	In my military experience we worked on munitions from nuclear, to large bombs, missiles, and very tiny explosives, the maintenance buildings had blow away roofs in order for a blast to be directed upward. Maintence crews were exposed, but not support personnel as they were in adjacent buildings. Same idea as your safe. That is the reason I am putting the BP in an area away from the buildings. When not confined the BP will not normally have a blast, but why take a chance. This is a simple, effective, and cheap way to eliminate the hazard. Also moving the propane bottles to a safer area.

June 29, 2021, 12:35 PM	#7
Deltadart Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2015 Location: Washington State Posts: 286	I only have a few pounds of BP, but 15 pounds seems like a lot to me. Especially in part of the house, like an attached garage. I too view youtube with a few grains of salt, but will look at them .

June 29, 2021, 12:35 PM	#8
Bob Willman Senior Member Join Date: January 13, 2018 Location: Bowling Green, Ohio Posts: 111	In 1995 we has a house fire. The fire marshal said he knew within 6 feet of where it started in the basement but no idea why - probably electrical but that was on averages. No one was home. My reloading, bullet casting, ham radio shack and electronic workbench was all in that area near where it started. In a built-in floor to ceiling wood cabinet is where my powder was stored. Mostly smokeless with 3 or 4 cans of black powder. Except for the two 8 pound containers of H4831 it all was in metal cans - 60 pounds in all. The metal cans had the soldered finger joints. The soldered joints were melted open and about half way but nothing exploded. Bob WB8NQW

June 29, 2021, 12:44 PM	#9
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	I have, salvaged from my burned out house after The Incident of 2010, a whisky bottle and a Goex powder can with scorched labels. The contents are fine. Were fine.

June 29, 2021, 07:17 PM	#10
Deltadart Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2015 Location: Washington State Posts: 286	thank God the whiskey was OK.

June 29, 2021, 07:24 PM	#11
Deltadart Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2015 Location: Washington State Posts: 286	Actually munitions involved in a fire should be suspect, the propellant / explosives can become unstable.

June 30, 2021, 11:11 AM	#12
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	Yes, I had some ammo with cooked nitro I shouldn’t have shot. But there isn’t much that can happen to black if it is not wetted or ignited.