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Old June 7, 2005, 08:36 PM   #26
johndavid400
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dang Spy, that was mean... maybe Wayne was a bit zealous about his concern, but you don't need to flame people like that. SEND A PM. This is how threads get closed.

The fact that the P22 slide is made of Zinc alloy is not a desing flaw, it was an innovative and cost effective way to make the slide of the extremely low pressured .22lr handgun. Was it a good idea? Probably not, but they apparently thought it would be or they wouldn't have let it go to production.

Did Glock think that an unsupported barrel was a good idea? They probably would have gone with the extra $10 per gun but they found that it was extremely reliable and the probability of error was extremely low, all things considered.

How many P22 slides have cracked? I know of 2 (including wayne's). How many caused any injury at all? Zero that I know of, due to responsible shooters knowing when something is wrong with their gun and not firing it again. Wayne's concern is valid, he doesn't want the same thing to happen to others. However, it doesn't really change anything for those of us who already own a P22 excpet that it is something to be cautious of. It is still a fun gun to shoot and IMO worth the $229. No other manufacturer has been able to offer a competing gun for the price. You can have a utterly well-built gun or a good looking fun gun... take your pick.


Handy, Does a .22lr ever reach sufficient temperatures to melt Zinc? Or is it just the fact that it costs the same as an all steel gun that bothers you? (serious question, not being an @ss)
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Old June 7, 2005, 10:00 PM   #27
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I suggested a possible danger. Spy has provided scientific and statistical data proving, without a doubt, there was no danger to me at all. <LoL> I'm relieved.

I don't see a problem here johndavid400.

Thing is, your buddy spy is putting words in my mouth.

I've never said the gun is 'defective'. Defective implies the gun doesn't work. He's trying to say, I think the gun is 'flawed'.

I'll spell it out for the challenged, this includes you too johndavid400. "I ain't never said the gun is flawed or defective. I'm saying it was manufactured cheaply."

Point I've been making all along is ... "the company didn't make no mistake. There ain't no flaws or defects!" They decide ahead of time which aspects of the gun WILL BE MADE to suffer for the sake of economics. Let's have a hand for big business! Everyone gets a fun gun but one out of every 100,000 consumers get's a slide in the face, a broken finger, gets shot drawing down on a bad guy or has an A.D. cause his safety tripped off inadvertantly.

As for me personally, I'm gonna continue to shoot the gun when I get it back. It's the only one I got. The chance that it fails again is drastically reduced I'm sure.

Thanks to those that offered constructive criticism and advice. I've not found any Canadian Walther forums so I may post progress on the canadian repair saga.

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Last edited by wayneniamat; June 8, 2005 at 03:06 AM.
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Old June 7, 2005, 10:06 PM   #28
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I doubt .22 could heat up the barrel sufficiently to transfer the heat to the zinc slide in an amount to melt it.

But the material is brittle and not at all strong. It is used because it melts at such low temps that it is more like dealing with plastic than metal.

I don't much care for polymer, but that material at least offers an added weight savings over any sort of convention aluminum or steel frames. Zinc's ONLY claim to fame is cost savings - it has no material properties that might be considered beneficial to shooters - since retail price is obviously not one of them, in this case.

For those who claim this gun is unique, and therefore worth an all steel .22 price, I would claim they haven't fired a Bersa .22. Alloy frame, forged steel slide, same size, same trigger system, same price.


Zinc is the material used to make Davis and Lorcin disposable bellyguns. It took alot of balls for Walther to offer the same materials in a gun 5 times as expensive.
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Old June 7, 2005, 10:45 PM   #29
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Handy, I would have to agree with you. I would give anything to find someone with a Bersa .22 that I could shoot. I have never seen one in person at a gun show or gun store! The only place I have seen one is on gunbroker and they are $235, which is bull crap because the .380 only costs $199! But I completely agree, it definitely competes with the P22, they are just absolutely scarce where I'm from, that is why I say the P22 has no competition.

So, does the constant warming up (shooting 200 or 300 rounds at once) of the zinc in the slide, cause it to become brittle, or is it just a freak accident when one cracks? I have not heard of this as a consistent problem with the P22's, but It does make me wonder whether or not these guns will inevitably break after much use or if it is indeed a lemon issue. Someone said maybe it was a bad cast?



And Wayne? dude, what were you reading? I was defending you and you turn on me? DoubleNaughtSpy is not my buddy, don't know him from adam! I was stating to him that he should not flame you like he did on a public forum. Whatever...
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Old June 26, 2005, 05:09 AM   #30
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Not even three weeks yet and I'm shooting the gun again! The distributor replaced the slide for me and I had the gun in hand on Friday. Put about 700 rounds through it shooting a steel target.

Top notch after-purchase care is what I say about this manufacturer.

The slide is new and different than the last. It has Smith and Wesson stamped on it while the old slide didn't. I don't know if it's my imagination but this slide seems ... weighty. The safety lever looks the same but swivels without as much effort. The two screws that hold the fake compensator have been replaced and are flush now. The finish seems more matte than the original slide.

I made mental note on the way to pick it up that I should get back the correct sight. I had the #2 (lowest sight) on the cracked slide. Sure enough in my eagerness to get the gun home I neglected to check and naturally the #2 is replaced with a #3.

I spent almost four hours on the range Friday. I love shooting this little pistol.
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Old June 26, 2005, 05:01 PM   #31
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From what I have read the last few years, these guns are extremely problematic. I would avoid them if I were you.
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Old June 27, 2005, 02:06 PM   #32
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wayne, If your original slide did not have S&W stamped on it, it must have been really old, like one of the first production models.

I bought one new nearly 2 years ago and it still had the S&W stamped on the slide.... as did the newer one that I got last December.

Good luck
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Old July 15, 2005, 04:10 AM   #33
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Horrific update

http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread....62#post4358262
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Old July 15, 2005, 08:21 AM   #34
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The "odd scattered pitting" is probably porosity from gas bubbles one of a number of possible defects in castings .The number size and location determine how serious it is. I haven't examined a P22 but some of the comments about gun constuction are amusing. Back in 'the old days' kids would sometimes make guns .A 'zip gun' would have a block of wood for the handle ,automobile antenna for the barrel[22 rimfire] nail for the firing pin and rubber band to fire the gun !! ....Gun makers make guns that they can market. Obviously many want low priced guns so they are made with things like zinc instead of steel.
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Old July 15, 2005, 09:15 AM   #35
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News Flash: Guns break.

In the last two months, confining myself to only handguns, and (more specifically) only semiautomatic pistols, I have seen:
A Walther P22 with a cracked slide.
A Glock 32 with a cracked slide.
A SIG P-228 with a cracked breechblock.
A Springfield Loaded 1911 with a broken hammer strut.
A Kimber TLE II with a broken thumb safety.
A Glock 26 with a broken slide stop spring.
A Glock 19 with a broken trigger return spring.
A Browning Buckmark with a broken slide stop.

...and that's what I can remember off the top of my head. The longer I work in this field, the less shocked I am by any of this.
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Old July 16, 2005, 11:17 AM   #36
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And just how many years is it going to take Kimber to fix their famous snapping safety ???
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Old July 16, 2005, 11:26 AM   #37
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I've put over 6000 rounds through my p22 with very little failures.. had a few at first but switched ammo and it runs smooth now, no cracks..
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Old July 16, 2005, 12:22 PM   #38
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Notice Tamara dodnt l;ist any Colts

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Old July 16, 2005, 07:04 PM   #39
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can't believe you payed over $400 for a P22. i got a new one for $260

isn't $400 more than the retail? well anyways mine jams on the cheaper bullets, 550 for 8 buck type. it doesn't really jam to the point where i have to strip it but ever once in a while i would have to push the slide forward a bit to chamber it properly. I have been noticing some wear on the under side of the slide, i filed all the metal shavings down and the gun seems to feed more smoothly. I only have about 2000 rounds through mine so i hope it doesn't crack like yours, however knowing that they will back up their guns is a good thing
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Old July 17, 2005, 01:45 AM   #40
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WildAlaska,

Quote:
Notice Tamara dodnt l;ist any Colts

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(We won't count the poorly buffed stainless Colt GSP whose recoil spring plunger was badly off-center in the front of the slide... )
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Old July 17, 2005, 03:31 AM   #41
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Quote:
(We won't count the poorly buffed stainless Colt GSP whose recoil spring plunger was badly off-center in the front of the slide... )
Yer buyin em in the wrong place...all Colts that leave my hands are perfect

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Old July 17, 2005, 08:57 AM   #42
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I'm buyin' 'em from several different places, some of which are probably the same ones you are.


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Old July 17, 2005, 10:03 AM   #43
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Ahh ya mean that people are still buying Colts?!

Gotta start carrying a OWb design for the Colts now...



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Old July 17, 2005, 10:10 AM   #44
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Someone paid $400 for a P22???????????????? WHAT?

I got mine NIB for $229 with the green frame (they also had black, but I already had a black P22).

I can't imagine anyone paying $400 for that little gun. You could have gotten a Sig Trailside for that much.
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Old July 17, 2005, 02:33 PM   #45
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Quote:
I'm buyin' 'em from several different places, some of which are probably the same ones you are.
I only get em from one place...so stick to the ones right from Colt, they havent been fondled by all the middlemen

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Old August 10, 2005, 09:23 AM   #46
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I'll even admit that my CZ75B was bending the slide stop pin due to a drastically weak recoil spring, and I'm a CZ nut of high caliber...

Not pointing fingers, but someone needs to calm down a bit before they have a stroke. The P22 is a toy, albeit an expensive one. Mine was iffy out of the box, I massaged it into shape, and it has probably ten or twelve 550-packs through it and now the disconnector is worn out and dropping the hammer to half-cock on double action fire.

Did I expect a defense weapon? Hell no. Do I think I got my $230 worth? Absolutely. And I dissapointed that my gun is malfunctioning? Of course. Am I being a rabid jac...err, am I being excitedly vocal about it and causing general friction and grief within the community I seek out for my gunny brain-tickles? Nope. In fact I'm looking forward to a little kitchen-table bubba style repair work just to see if I can do it properly. I break it, then oh well. I don't even consider it worthwhile to send it for the repair. If I want another P22 I'll buy another P22 or fix this one.

But what I don't have is unreasonable expectations.
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Old August 10, 2005, 09:33 AM   #47
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Why does your "toy" cost as much as .22s reliable enough for military service?
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Old August 10, 2005, 02:52 PM   #48
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Because it does. I don't know why Smith&Walther sets prices the way they do, except perhaps, oh, they're in business to make money?
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Old August 10, 2005, 03:55 PM   #49
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No. No they sell it at that price because people like you will look at it, decide that it is made of substandard materials that constitute a "toy", and decide to buy it anyway at a price that exceeds the retail price of solid steel guns of sterling reputation.

Walther seems to know their market, just like PT Barnum did.
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Old August 11, 2005, 01:57 PM   #50
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I had $230 worth of fun with it, perhaps more. Much more, actually.

What, pray tell, is your major malfunction? Not everything is built to be a "serious working pistol". You seem personally offended by this gun. I'll just have to recommend that you *gasp* don't buy one, lest it's zincalloy and plastic construction heckle you into an early grave. I can hear several of them calling your name and laughing, right now... demonic pistols of slide-failure doom, sirens, calling your name, calling you to easily held comfortable grips and very soft recoil, for boxes upon boxes of .22LR lotus blossom fun. Run! Plug your ears with some otherworld cartridges before the P22 thinny calls you to your doom!

At least it's not a Phoenix...
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