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Old November 3, 2009, 12:44 AM   #1
1shot2kills
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thinkin bout getting into reloading my own...

been looking around and doing my lil research on good kits and good tools to have when i start like a puller and a wilson .40 s&w wilson gage and a good caliper and wut not. found out all together minus the brass and the projectiles and other consumables is gonna be about $267 and the way ive figured it from doing my homework by the time i get through my first box of primers i will have earned my money back in ammo savings over store bought rounds which i have found to be about $.50-.60 a piece.

however ive read different articles on the internet and in magazines that reloading ur own SD rounds really isn't a good practice do to imperfections that may render ur round unreliable when u need it is this really a valid argument against it? i mean u figure u get ur equiptment dialed in for proper OAL proper crimping ur have the proper recipe for ur caliber and projectile weight, and all ur practice ammo fired reliably. So is it really all that much better to pay the price for factory loaded hp's? and dont they also sumtimes get duds too? k wow i just reread that and i sound like an idiot but im just wondering... basically has anybody ever had reloads that performed horribly or that just didn't fire?
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Old November 3, 2009, 07:21 PM   #2
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We've all made mistakes, but if you pay attention, handloads are every bit as reliable as factory ammo. Whether you can save money or not depends on current prices. Before the great ammo shortage, I bought Winchester White Box .40 S&W at Wally World for the same price as the bullets alone at Midway. And places like "ammoman" often have good deals on bulk quantities of popular rounds. Reasons I load my own:
I shoot calibers that are hard to find (.300 Savage) or weak in commercial loads (6.5x55).
You can tailor the ammo to your needs ("varmint" rounds for 7mm Mag).
You can find the "sweet spot" for your rifle, and shoot impressive groups.
And of course, you can have a lot of fun debating the perfect load on this forum. But it takes time, takes patience. If you don't enjoy it, it's not worth your time.
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Old November 3, 2009, 08:27 PM   #3
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I don't know...

Quote:
and wut not
Quote:
reloading ur own
Quote:
u figure u get ur equiptment
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Old November 3, 2009, 08:47 PM   #4
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If you're slow on the uptake, that's code-talk for in today's world in general and this board specifically, a certain image must be maintained as firearms owners and re-loaders. Have respect, discipline, and a show of good grammar and spelling in your communications here. We're not a bunch of bubba's so a show of effort on your part will net you a wealth of acceptance and answers.
Shake that text talk!
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Old November 3, 2009, 08:55 PM   #5
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I WOULDNT buy factory ammo anymore... i can even kick up my own charge loads a bit if I want to.
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Old November 5, 2009, 03:14 AM   #6
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well i want to appologize for the "grammar" issues... hey how did you know i txt alot? am i that obvious? sad part is i actually say what not alot lol.

alright my purposes for reloading... 1) ive seen it done since i can remember ive known alot of people who went shooting alot whether for game or for target practice. 2) i like knowing exactly how everything goes together, im the type of kid who used to get beat for tearing apart all moms kitchen appliances lol. 3) after a while, being able to make my own "recipe" that suits me and my gun(s) better than the one size fits all store bought units 4) i live in a small town and walmart is about a 25 mile drive , spending 15 bucks in gas to spend 20 bucks on a box of ammo doesn't really seem a good idea. 5) i can reload for my buddies make a little extra money and let them decide hey try a littlle more powder or a little less powder and help them to make there ammo a little personalized too. 6) hey i can cut my ammo costs in half who doesn't love that? 7) and wut says bad ass better than a nice progressive press and other reloading equiptment sitting in your apt? hahahaaa. so wut do ya think? i think im ready to scrounge my money and spend a little of it investing in my future shooting needs thinking a lee kit to start later upgrading to a load master press with all the good stuff( case feeder, projectile feeder, a nice auto disk powder measure, and of course the auto prime) thats my dream press now if they only made it electric lol... jk but that wont be till after i get my first thousand rounds done and pay off the initial investment i plan on keeping the single stage around im sure itll come in handy for something oh and before i hear bout run on paragraphs, ive never been good with paragraphs in proper form
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Old November 5, 2009, 05:56 AM   #7
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sorry.. I don't read 300 word run-on paragraphs

Read lots - plenty of good info here and other places on the net, but ...its the internet.

Books written by people who are liable for their information should be you source for information used to develop ammunition.

Good luck.
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Old November 5, 2009, 01:54 PM   #8
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well crap i guess im a have to get the paragraph grammar figured out huh? hahaha... seriously my english teacher hated grading my papers lol she made a stamp actually cause she got tired of writing bad paragraph comments hahaa... jk

Seriously though, yeah it is the internet and there definitely is bad info out there along with the good, but i don't think ive really found any bad info really i looked up some recipes and found like one for my short and wimpy .40 , still dont like that name but it works i guess don't remember wut the powder mentioned was but it was like 4.14 grain or something but it was more like a hey i wonder how much a bottle of powder will due so i used that and did the conversions and found out a thousandish rounds could be expected from a pound... does that sound rt? ive read a few articles espcially in combat handgun magazine and the like, which im sure there has to be some truth to, and watched a lot of videos on the actual process on youtube learned the worm light clipped to the pres to see ur powder charge trick from some older dude on youtube

im pretty excited i wish i could get my press and equiptment on loan and have it to my door now type of deal but i dont think thats gonna happen so im a keep getting overtime and work and get my 2-300 dollars together and get my initial stuff, thought bout getting a progressive rt off the bat but i think the single stage will be a decent learning expreince and will better drive home the process for me, like ok first clean the primer seat , oil the cases( is this step really necessary anymore? according to the lees dies it sounds like it isnt but wut can it hurt?, bust out the hand primer-er, get to loading the charges by hand, resize the case for the projectile, seat the projectile than run it through the crimping dies, and then the rechecks for OAL, proper loading, and runing a few through the gage. oh and i got a question, is there any place on the case where i could like lightly stamp the usage number on the brass? how sensitive is chambering? could i use say a razor or a scribe to scratch on it? i know the average brass is good for 6-7 reloads before they start getting too stretched and out of control, and id like to get that in my "system" from the get go the less screwy rounds i put out the better ill feel bout myself

Wow k i run on alot hahaaa k im a chop it off here
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Old November 5, 2009, 03:22 PM   #9
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There are a lot of reasons on both sides of the "reloads for SD use" arguments. Some people say that reloads are a prosecuting attorney's dream, allowing him to argue that you made some "special" loads with the intent to kill (of course, isn't that kind of what brings about the use of deadly force?). Some fanatical attorneys will even argue that if you use a .357 MAGNUM, that a standard load isn't enough for you. They argue you want to be "Dirty Harry". They will even argue that you chose a "hi-capacity 9mm" just because you wanted to fill somebody with holes. There are lots of different arguments that just plain don't make any sense to ANYBODY that knows ANYTHING about guns, but the arguments still are being made.

One of the best defenses I have heard against using reloads is this: if you are carrying exactly the same thing as what the local PD is carrying, they cannot accuse you of making special ultra-destructive ammo with the intent of just ripping some poor schmuck to pieces.

With all the lawsuit happy people out there and attorneys without scruples, why give THEM any additional ammo for prosecuting you in the event you need to use lethal force in a legitimate SD situation?

You can handload ammo that very closely (if not exactly) mimicks commercial loads. The handloads make great practice ammo to keep your skills sharply honed.

These are just things that I have heard over the years and are not necessarily my opinions. My personal philosophy is to carry what you are most comfortable with and what will get the job done. If you need to actually use it, use it effectively and deal with attorneys later. As many people have said "It is better to be judged by twelve than carried by six".
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Old November 5, 2009, 03:48 PM   #10
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ok while i can see those arguments being made and how the largely gun and ammo unknowing public can believe that or wut ever, i look at it like this, if you shoot your either protecting yourself, and/or someone else. now seeing as alot of the loads people shoot can possibly go through a person... what does it matter how fast it does it? or in what fashion? to me if it goes through some one, but the projectile stops for dinner half way through it really doesn't matter, its still a possibly deadly thing by using hollow points we are basically hastening the inevitable, there fore being more humane.

now going on with the arguments you stated if we didn't have the NRA's of the world hollow points would probably be outlawed as items intended to inflect hurt or solely for the use of "murder". along with most of the ammunitions that alot of people hunt with or use in general, we'd probably be limited to the 22's and 25's. so the fact that theyd argue with hand loaded ammo is retarded to me. oh and another thing, unless they found your equiptment at your house how would they know that it was reloaded? most of the brass ive seen states on the cartridge smith and wesson, or remington, or the appropriate ammo manufacturers name. that doesn't really differ in the reloading game. does this mean that i should probably keep my equiptment at a buddys house? to avoid any rediculous antics in court? in the case the use of one of my "super" reloaded jhp bullets need be used to protect myself or my stuff? honestly while i may not agree fully with all there actions i gotta say thank god for the NRA's seriously in this weak minded, politically correct society im sure alot of our gun rights and other rights would go in the crapper. just my two cents, am i wrong?

oh and on another completely different issue, is there a website or something where we can send our dead brass to ( the ones that we probably shouldn't reload anymore?) or would that be a more of a save it till u get a pound or two and take it to the scrapper? might as well keep it cheap as possible rt? hahahaaa
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Old November 5, 2009, 03:48 PM   #11
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All though Stick_Man is correct on the interwebs desire to say that attorneys shred people that use hand loaded ammo for self defense, there has not been a documented case of an attorney prosecuting someone due to the use of hand loaded ammo.

Goes right on up there with chain emails and such, sure it sounds believable but it simply has not been proven to be true.

I am prior law enforcement and I carry my own loaded HPs in my daily carry weapon. I trust my rounds the same if not more than a factory round.
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Old November 5, 2009, 04:40 PM   #12
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sweet well thats a positive thing to hear. well i don't know if those arguments are made or not, but as long as those arguments don't work thats all that matters. guess some of the world isnt as retarded as some that i have come in contact with and thats a good thing it restores a lil hope hahahaa ok i have a question for an ex officer, k i live in an area where theres alot of walk in type business pharmacies and what not, now if the need arises for the use am i still gonna be hit with the firing with in the city limits? and would that stick? just trying to be an informed gun owner maybe id grab for my knives as a precursor to the gun. im too pretty to go to jail lmao jk...
oh and on an out of town thing, if i go to my aunts farm and fire off a couple hundred rounds every weekend at some targets i am gonna be putting up... is that a i cant be in trouble thing or an as long as the owners of the farm up the road doesnt complain youll be ok type of thing... ive heard its free and clear legal for most of my life, but ive heard of officers being called out to farms for shots fired and citations being written, happened at my friends farm recently

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Old November 5, 2009, 08:20 PM   #13
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Paragraphs aren't really all that tough. Break up your questions into segments, and separate each with a blank line. Sentences start with caps. Easier to do if you get off your cell phone and use a computer...

Quote:
oil the cases( is this step really necessary anymore? according to the lees dies it sounds like it isnt but wut can it hurt?, bust out the hand primer-er, get to loading the charges by hand, resize the case for the projectile, seat the projectile than run it through the crimping dies, and then the rechecks for OAL, proper loading, and runing a few through the gage.
I believe it's referred to as "case lube", and it is generally not necessary for carbide pistol dies. What can it hurt? If you get excess lube inside the case, it can affect how the round fires. Some lubes are worse than others for this.

Resizing is generally done before an expander operation. Case expansion is sometimes done in the same operation as powder charge ("powder thru expander"), but AFAIK powder charge isn't done before resizing.

Bullet seating/crimping is somewhat controversial. Some can adjust combination dies to do this successfully at the same time, and others break this up into separate seating and crimping steps, especially for "taper" crimps used for autoloader cartridges like .45ACP.

Dropping loaded cartridges into a case gauge isn't a bad idea. Some use the pistol barrel for this, but this only shows headspace. Most pistol case gauges will show headspace and a rough COL check.

Due to variations in case and bullet weights, weighing completed rounds as a check on the reloading process is generally pointless. Powder charges can be as small as 5 gr, and if the variation in brass or bullet is anywhere near 1 gr, you can be looking at +/- 2 gr in total weight (or more) with identical powder charges.

Reloading is generally a rewarding activity in itself, even if you don't save a lot in total costs. The rewards are somewhat intangible, measured in things like satisfaction in a job well done. It does tend to require an investment in time, as well as money. And a certain amount of patience.

Good luck!
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Old November 5, 2009, 08:29 PM   #14
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Reading this reminded me why I hate to text on the phone, or is that fon.
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Old November 6, 2009, 05:15 AM   #15
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lol c y you gotta be hatin on the celly? jk yeah i get the gerneral idea of the paragraph but see my brains are so scattered i generally cant make a paragraph unless its like ten different thoughts, and shouldn't a paragraph be on a singular topic? thats the part i have problems with i have ADD havent been diagnosed but i get bored of waiting for my appt and end up walking to the store and losing track of time lol. believe me ive lost my fair share of missed appointment charges

alright as to the case lube... how can u know u got "too much" in the case? i know its only supposed to be a lil bit for the bullet to seat properly but how much is too much and is there a way to avoid oil fouling the powder?

yeah i read bout the gages in the combat handgun magazine, said it was a good idea to make sure the rounds would chamber right if itll fit in there theres a pretty good chance itll not fail in the gun either. and yup he was loading 45 acp for an example in the article

oh and about the case expanding and droppin powder via the powder through expander, is a good idea but it seem like more of a hassle to do that when ur dealing with a scale and weighing up individual charges i think id rather weigh it up and just funnel it in, now once i get my progressive thatll be easy set up the autodisk measure and make sure to check a few cases here and there... its like my job, we do alot of quality type checks gotta love the food industry

as for as weighing of cases being pointless i plan on weighing a couple 10 cases and getting an average and doing the same with projectiles and primers so i can have a general knowledge of ok this on seems to be about rt on and wow k why is there no powder in this one? or oops a double charge? a basic idea of whats going on is all i seek with the weighing thing


i can see where the patience come into play and a dedication of time, its a hobby, i have lots of time i have four days a wk off work so time isn't an issue and i have patience for most anything and a job well done is definitely a good feeling, especially when ur gettings three inch groupings at 25 yards be like yup i had alot to do with that

oh and umm no its actually fowkn like f-own the k is silent lol nah its still spelled phone hahaaa
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Old November 6, 2009, 08:13 AM   #16
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Case lube and bullet lube are two different things. Case lube is used so the increased friction of bottleneck rifle cartridges doesn't cause a "stuck case" in the resizing die. Bullet lube is used with lead bullets, used to reduce lead fouling of the bore. With carbide dies, you don't lube pistol brass.

As far as neck lubrication, it is used so the expander ball can pass more easily...not related to bullet seating. Some use a case brush rolled on a lube pad, to pick up just a trace of lube every 5 cases or so. Some dip the case mouth in "motor mica", for a dry lube that won't foul powder. This is for bottleneck cartridges...straight-walled cases (pistol) don't have neck lube problems.

You can weigh every charge for pistol reloading, but most reloaders get a powder measure and dump uniform charges into cases held in a loading block. Each stroke of the little handle dumps one charge, then you move on. You use the scale to set up the powder measure. Weighing every charge and powder tricklers to get it to +/- 0.1gr is usually done when reloading rifle cartridges, for varmint or benchrest shooters. Pistol accuracy just doesn't benefit from the labor involved, by comparison.

On weighing completed rounds, even if you use statistical methods to get an average for case and bullet weights, variation of a couple of grains from median for either case or bullet (or both) is not uncommon. This means that, for any given test on a completed round, you can't make a definitive statement as to whether the charge is correct or not. (It's a nice thought, and many others have suggested it before you. Unfortunately, it isn't a functional test.)
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Old November 6, 2009, 02:29 PM   #17
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so basically weighing wont help avoiding "squib" rounds? or possibly catch over loads? thats the only reason for my weighing of completed rounds... it would be every round it would be like say one every ten rounds or something... but if it aint gonna do nothing for me im not gonna get in that habits ill just make sure to pay attention to my steps especially the powder loading.

that good ole flexlite hooked to my press will stay on when im reloading
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Old November 6, 2009, 03:21 PM   #18
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That's my understanding. I may have it completely wrong, but I tried it with several different case and bullet mfgrs (in .45ACP) and found that finished round weights varied by 2gr or more, caused by either case or bullet manufacturing tolerances.

This would be an unacceptable variation in powder charge, which is only 5gr for Bullseye.

In other words, if I had a finished round weight of 253gr and an average weight of 250gr, I couldn't tell if the extra 3gr was lead, brass or powder...

If you choose a powder that "meters well", and you are scrupulous in observing your work flow, you won't have significant powder charge variations or double charges.

In some calibers, it is possible to choose a "bulky" powder that would fill the case if you threw a double charge. I understand some reloaders do this, so a double charge is impossible to miss.
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Old November 7, 2009, 02:53 PM   #19
1shot2kills
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k well i think im a try it out for myself because i gotta make up a few emptys so ill just weigh em up and weigh em and then weigh some charged rounds and see what happens if its conclusive thats it may be worth while ill do it other wise again if it ain't gonna do me any good then i might as well just go straight to the range hahahaaa
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Old November 7, 2009, 03:17 PM   #20
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I`am so glad some one spoke up to the text talk ,I IM and text a lot ,but I still speak adult to ,it does make you look like a kid (which you probably are) ,but to get a good responce speak english not text/Im
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Old November 7, 2009, 04:33 PM   #21
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Quote:
k well i think im a try it out for myself because i gotta make up a few emptys so ill just weigh em up and weigh em and then weigh some charged rounds and see what happens if its conclusive thats it may be worth while ill do it other wise again if it ain't gonna do me any good then i might as well just go straight to the range hahahaaa
If you are going to take reloading as serious as the English language then you should probably stick with factory ammo.
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Old November 7, 2009, 09:41 PM   #22
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Actually I know you are gonna think I'm being facetious when I say this but I can spell pretty well and when it's important my grammar is not too shabby. I don't always pay attention to my proper spelling and punctuations, but i get my point across. I'm the best speller in my family and have won a few spelling bees in my day. My grammar might not be to exacting standards, and my paragraph forming isn't up to "par". I'll let you know why that is, it's because most of the time my mind is too busy worrying and wondering about other things like social life, money, family problems, and things of the like. Often times to the point where punctuation, grammar and paragraph forming really aren't anywhere in my top priorities.

So what should I do? Should I stop asking questions? Should I come on here only when my mind can prioritize my English? Am I being too lenient on myself, or are you being too nit-picky? Do you do that to everyone you know? Correct them time after time. To the point where they really can't enjoy the conversation they are having. Why do I feel the need to defend myself? Why should I have to? To you any ways. I guess I'm going to come back on here one more time, probably after a good 24 hours. After that I wont be back, Ill cancel my account on here to please YOU. That way you won't have to read my horrid, disgusting, and abominable butchering of the English language. Does that suit you, CrustyFN?

To the rest of the individuals who have actually been helpful, or at least willing to talk and help me understand. I thank you, whole heartedly. I will take your advice, and your helpful hints and use them. I appreciate you all and will ask you guys to keep up the good work. I'm sure many more people will appreciate it as much as I do.

CrustyFN, you stated in your last response that you hoped I take reloading more seriously than my English? I will take it as seriously as I do my German as well as my Spanish, the latter being my native tongue. I take all my hobbies very seriously. I take my fishing very seriously, I have taken my shooting very seriously, I took skateboarding very seriously when I was still in it. So don't worry, while you're on here correcting peoples mistakes and running people down, I'll be enjoying my reloading hobby. Most of my stuff will be here in about one week, then I will take a couple days to read the books and manuals. On day three or so I will be reloading ammunitions.

So English teacher, how was my paper? What grade did I get on it? Tell me , tell me I'm sooooooo anxious to know! Okay, I'm done! Bye!

Tomas: I might be a kid, well relatively speaking, I'm 27. Again I type to get my point across, not to win literary awards of excellence. Is that some what understandable? Or am I simply a mentally handicapped individual? I'm not sure really, I mean 4 head injuries in my life span could be to blame. Thank you for not putting me down too much I appreciate it.

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Old November 7, 2009, 11:39 PM   #23
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Nobody is asking you to be perfect, but 3 or 4 people commented about your texting BS and you didn't get the hint until my post. You think it's a big joke to talk like that on the forum. It doesn't matter to me I just won't read the posts. Keep talking like that and see the responses you get from most of the people here.
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Old November 8, 2009, 09:56 PM   #24
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well thats understandable, all you had to say was hey im pretty sure if you go with a grammar check and a spell check that you'd get more, or better responses. i also recall you as being the only one who said something on more than one occasion which is why i singled you out. i hate being corrected, if i can see the reason your trying to correct me then ill correct myself. Make sense? glad we got that straightened out.
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Old November 8, 2009, 11:03 PM   #25
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1shot I'm not trying to pick on you I am actually trying to help. There is a lot of great knowledge on this forum and reloaders that forgot more than I will ever know. I think if you continue to talk with the text talk a lot of them won't take you serious and you will lose a lot of good help and information.

Quote:
however ive read different articles on the internet and in magazines that reloading ur own SD rounds really isn't a good practice do to imperfections that may render ur round unreliable when u need it is this really a valid argument against it?
I trust my reloads more than factory ammo. I feel I have a better quality control than the factory. The biggest thing about not using reloads for SD is because of the possible legal problems.

Quote:
basically has anybody ever had reloads that performed horribly or that just didn't fire?
I have never had any that wouldn't fire but I had some that didn't shoot as good as others. If you are going to work up a SD load it will be well tested before you start using them. I carry factory and reloads, depends on which gun I am carring at the time.

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