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Old September 30, 2020, 10:29 PM   #1
TXAZ
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NFA & Vacations

Taking a long trip, the owner of an NFA suppressor and full auto weapon prefers to not take them or leave it in the home gun safe.

Can these be left with the owner of other NFA items, a Class 3 FFL or they just have to stay in the safe?
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Old September 30, 2020, 11:21 PM   #2
veprdude
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If you have a trust, at least in Texas I think you can designate a new trustee. If no trust they can't be left to just any owner of a NFA item since the paperwork/access follows the person on the tax stamp. Not sure about Class 3 (SOT) since it might technically be considered a transfer unless "gunsmithing" work was being done to it. Leaving it at home shouldn't be an issue as long as there is no "authorized" access. Ex. in a home gun safe where nobody knows the combo is OK. Home gun safe with people not associated with the tax stamp having access to (Combo + Key to your house) probably not OK. Any unauthorized access to it at that point is basically theft, which is a headache but no direct consequence to you other than the fact that your NFA item is stolen.

Am I missing anything?
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Old October 1, 2020, 10:58 AM   #3
dogtown tom
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Quote:
TXAZ

Can these be left with the owner of other NFA items
As noted, only if a member of trust that possesses the NFA firearm.
Being an "owner of other NFA firearms" doesn't endow you with special privilidges.
If the tax stamp was to an individual, it would be an illegal transfer of possession.



Quote:
a Class 3 FFL
As noted above, only for "gunsmithing". As no mention was made of anything other than storage....thats a big nope.




Quote:
or they just have to stay in the safe?
If he distrusts the security of his safe, he needs a better safe. ATF isn't going to come a knocking to see if anyone else knows the combination, thats a myth.


A couple of years ago I had a local guy call me asking what I would charge to store his machine gun while he was going through a divorce. I told him concealing assets from the courts was a felony and if caught he wouldn't be able to possess any firearm ever again. He said he would call another dealer.
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Old October 1, 2020, 11:40 AM   #4
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If you have a trust, at least in Texas I think you can designate a new trustee.
That used to be easy. Now that person must go through the fingerprinting and B/G process.
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Old October 1, 2020, 01:58 PM   #5
TXAZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogtown tom View Post
...

As noted above, only for "gunsmithing". As no mention was made of anything other than storage....thats a big nope.


Thanks Dogtown Tom.

So any legit gunsmithing service would qualify, and the length of time it took for that service is not an issue, would that be reasonable?
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Old October 1, 2020, 06:13 PM   #6
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So any legit gunsmithing service would qualify, and the length of time it took for that service is not an issue, would that be reasonable?
“Cleaning” is a gunsmith service. All my guns and cans need to be cleaned
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Old October 1, 2020, 09:56 PM   #7
dogtown tom
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Quote:
Sharkbite
Quote:
Quote:
If you have a trust, at least in Texas I think you can designate a new trustee.
That used to be easy.
Still is.


Quote:
Now that person must go through the fingerprinting and B/G process.
Absolutely nope.
The only time a member of a trust must submit fingerprints, photos, responsible person questionnaire is at the time of form 4 submission.
Members added after the tax stamp is issued do not.

It's the reason the Silencer Shop Single Shot Trust is so popular. The F4 is submitted with one name, the trust specific to a single NFA firearm. On approval and issuance of the tax stamp, the grantor can add as many additional members as he desires via a simple amendment.
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Old October 1, 2020, 10:05 PM   #8
dogtown tom
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Quote:
TXAZ
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogtown tom View Post
...

As noted above, only for "gunsmithing". As no mention was made of anything other than storage....thats a big nope.


Thanks Dogtown Tom.

So any legit gunsmithing service would qualify, and the length of time it took for that service is not an issue, would that be reasonable?
If I'm cleaning a machine gun, then storing that machine gun for anything longer than a day............I sure as heck ain't doing it for $50.

Since MG's can easily run north of $25,000, that's a lot of financial responsibility for any dealer to cover. I would charge $100 a month minimum until the owner returns.
If the dealer says "naw $50 is all I charge ya".......he isn't insuring that MG.

I regularly decline MG transfers because buyers want the same $50 transfer fee on their $35,000 machine gun as I charged on their $500 silencer. Sorry, insurance doesn't work that way.
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Old October 23, 2020, 11:43 PM   #9
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Quote:
That used to be easy. Now that person must go through the fingerprinting and B/G process.
If the transfer to the trust occurred on or before July 15, 2016, then you can designate a new trustee/responsible person and give them custody.

If the transfer to the trust occurred after July 15, 2016, then RP's cannot be added, period. That was the whole point of the rule change. As to transfers made after July 15, 2016, no one can be a RP unless they have applied to ATF and been approved. But there is no way to obtain approval of an RP from ATF unless it has been applied for with the transfer.

The only way to "add" or change RP's for such trusts is to do a transfer to a new trust, which requires another $200 stamp and a 10-month wait, but in that process you can add anyone you want as a RP so long as they apply and get approved by ATF in the initial application.
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Old October 25, 2020, 08:44 PM   #10
dogtown tom
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Eight_is_enough

If the transfer to the trust occurred on or before July 15, 2016, then you can designate a new trustee/responsible person and give them custody.

If the transfer to the trust occurred after July 15, 2016, then RP's cannot be added, period.
100% wrong.


Quote:
That was the whole point of the rule change. As to transfers made after July 15, 2016, no one can be a RP unless they have applied to ATF and been approved. But there is no way to obtain approval of an RP from ATF unless it has been applied for with the transfer.
How many NFA transfers do you do a year? I'm guessing ZERO.
When submitting a Form 4 as a trust, every member of the trust who meets the definition of "responsible person" must submit fingerprints, photos and the RP questionnaire.



Quote:
The only way to "add" or change RP's for such trusts is to do a transfer to a new trust, which requires another $200 stamp and a 10-month wait, but in that process you can add anyone you want as a RP so long as they apply and get approved by ATF in the initial application.
Absolute nonsense.
AFTER the Form 1 or 4 is issued.......you can add as many new members to your trust as you desire. No prints, no photos, nothing reported to ATF.

Again, from the post below, the only time a member of a trust must submit fingerprints, photos, responsible person questionnaire is at the time of form 4 submission.
Members added after the tax stamp is issued do not.

It's the reason the Silencer Shop Single Shot Trust is so popular. The F4 is submitted with one name, the trust specific to a single NFA firearm. On approval and issuance of the tax stamp, the grantor can add as many additional members as he desires via a simple amendment.
Please read this page: https://www.silencershop.com/single-shot-trust.html
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