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Old April 14, 2010, 10:46 PM   #1
Dis-1-Shooter
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Bullet Set-Back....Help!!!

I just finished loading 200ish rounds for my STI Edge in 40 S&W. Load data is as follow: assorted range brass, 135 gr Nosler HP, 6.0 gr Bullseye, Federal small pistol primer and set to 1.125". I have not loaded alot of 40 cal and have only loaded enough for testing purpose. After I finish, I decided to test taper crimp by squeezing bullets in by hand. The Remington brass allowed bullet to be pushed back while the other brass was ok. I then tried to chamber the Remington rounds and remeasure. Bullet set back was at 1.100" while the other brands of brass was at 1.119". Factory ammo did not have bullet set-back. Is Remington brass bad or do I need to add more taper crimp? I also pulled a bullet and there is a SLIGHT taper crimp mark on bullet. Any suggestions will be awesome.
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Old April 14, 2010, 11:05 PM   #2
Jim243
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Didn't even know there was a 135 grain bullet for 40 S&W. Checked the Lyman 49th edition and what do you know. There is a Nosler JHP #44838 135 Grain listed. But the OAL for that bullet is shown as 1.085 inches. No wonder you have a problem setting them to 1.125.

Jim
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Old April 14, 2010, 11:09 PM   #3
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You shouldn't need to crimp .40 S&W I've loaded and shot a few thousand rounds through my S&W M&P .40 achieved "good enough for plinking" accuracy and have been overall very satisfied with the results.

It seems like you might not have the crimping dies set right. I haven't done a lot of crimping but it shouldn't really be pushing the bullet back that far. I don't do a lot of crimping, some else may be able to help you with that.

Pull those loads and chalk it up to experience ;-)
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Old April 14, 2010, 11:19 PM   #4
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Jim243, Sierra listed their C.O.A.L at 1.125" and the SD HP ammo by Federal also is at 1.125". I figure 1.125" would be OK to start with. According to Nolser, "The S.A.A.M.I. overall cartridge lenghts for the .40 S&W are 1.085" min and 1.135" max. Seating to anywhere in this range is acceptable as long as the rounds function well in your particular firearm". Thanks for your concern.
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Old April 14, 2010, 11:20 PM   #5
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If you are over crimping they may make them loser in the case, A slight ring on the pulled bullets seems ok to me as mine have a slight mark also, 2nd, i had the same problems with R-P brass in my .40 loads, seems to have a slightly thinner wall and you get less case tension on the bullet. For this reason I only use winchester brass in my .40.

Next question.... is your die, is it new? and what kind is it, I had 2 .40 size dies that were over sized buy a few thousands and were not getting the brass small enough to get good case tension, this is what you want, a taper crimp isnt really what you want to use to make the bullet tight in the case. I found my lee dies are slightly tighter then my rcbs.

May also want to measure the bullets and make sure you didnt get a lot with some under sized ones.
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Old April 14, 2010, 11:28 PM   #6
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Bullspotter, the dies that I used are Lee. They are fairly new. I have a new RCBS set as well, I might try to start fresh tomorrow and see how they perform. Thanks for your input.
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Old April 14, 2010, 11:39 PM   #7
Jim243
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Dis-1-Shooter, don't take this wrong, but is there a reason you are using 135 grain bullets for 40 S&W, I have only been loading them for the last 6 months. Is there something I have been missing??

Jim
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Old April 14, 2010, 11:45 PM   #8
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Jim243, I have tested 180 gr and stumbled on Federal 135 HP SD ammo and found it interesting and bought it. Shot both and to me the 135 gr seems to have less recoil. The purpose of this load is to make major in IPSC shooting.
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Old April 14, 2010, 11:54 PM   #9
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I have a 3 inch PT-140 that I think that bullet would be perfect for. I shoot IDPA and just started with 40 instead of 9mm I was using last year. I need to find some to try.

Thanks
Jim
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Old April 14, 2010, 11:59 PM   #10
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I don't load them in .40 ( only 155 and 165 for that) but use them in 10mm for those "shock and awe" rounds, and they need to be set a little deeper than max COL would indicate. 135g is short bullet, brass dont have don't have much to grab on when loaded to max COL.
Also, do not bell the brass much, just enough to get the bullet started in cartridge. too much bell and brass wont hold the bullet properly
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Old April 15, 2010, 07:57 AM   #11
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It's been my experience that R-P brass in 10mm (and especially the nickel plated version of the same stuff) is thin at the case mouth and does not give solid mouth tension on many jacketed bullets, and specifically, on Nosler 150gr JHP's. Nothing I could do would fix this problem reliably.

In my experience -- it's absolutely the R-P brass that is the major issue you currently have. Yes, my experience is with 10 and not .40, but try some Federal, Winchester or Starline brass and watch the problem evaporate.

My best solution was to move all my R-P brass (nickel too) in 10mm to be used specifically for cast lead bullets. I load them with 200gr LTC slugs and run them medium-warm, but not nuclear. I get good case mouth tension with the larger diameter cast slugs and I keep my 10mm R-P brass clear of jacketed rounds.

I've also found R-P brass in .380 to be very nearly the same experience.

I'm not sitting here and professing that R-P brass is crap -- it seems to last just as long as the others, but the thin case mouths give me way too much grief to bother with them.

You do know what happens when you get major bullet setback in .40 cal, right? Especially in pistols that don't utilize a fully supported barrel? Or pistols that might inadvertently fire slightly out of battery?

Bullet setback is an extremely dangerous problem -- and in .40 S&W, it's just begging for a KB.
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Old April 15, 2010, 05:51 PM   #12
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If you do not want to use a longer bullet and thicker brass, you may want to try a Lee undersize 40 caliber die and universal belling die.

Am of preference to use Lee undersize die, Lee universal belling die,thicker brass and the longer bullet. That combination can stop setback in .40 caliber Browning HP.
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Old April 16, 2010, 04:01 PM   #13
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Zeke, you nailed it on the head. After discussing it with a more experience reloader, he also recommends an undersize die...EGW. I think the EGW die will fix the problem...maybe even with the Remington brass. Ony thing is that the finished bullets have a "sand hour glass" look to them, but should be fine for shooting. Again thanks for all the responses!!!!!!!!
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