lee vs. dillon???

[.5moagimp]

Ok I have a question???? I am looking into starting to reload. I ahve narrowed my choice down to two presses. The dillon xl 650 or the Lee load master. Which one is the better machine. I know price would dictate the dillon, but price is not always condusive of a better product. Any ideas or input? Thanks ahead of time.

[Jim243]

Those of us that use Lee will tell you Lee. Those that use Dillon will tell you Dillon. You are going to have to see both for yourself to make up your mind.


Good Luck
Jim

[Maligator]

If you have a chance to try out both, I would recommend that. It really boils down to what you feel the most comfortable with. Some people scoff at the initial price of a Dillon and swear that if your new and getting into reloading the best thing to do is start off with a Lee.

I didn't do that because the people that I knew had Dillons and swore by them. I drank the Blue coolaid and do not regret it. However, I think the most important thing is to get your hands on as many as possible and see which one tickles your fancy. Go to Cabels or some other store that has reloading machines out and see how they feel to you. I'm not color blind and can see where each maker has their good points.

[Unclenick]

If you search the forum for average comments, the Lee seems to require more fussing and mechanical acuity to keep it running smoothly. The Dillon is a tank and has a few more bells and whistles available for it.

[oneounceload]

I have owned/used blue, green, red, the other red, the other other red, and the other other other red in rifle, pistol and shotshell loaders. Fanboys of each brand will swear by theirs and swear at the others. You will see this no matter what you want to hear or see. The above advice about trying both is warranted. ALL of them have good points and bad. In every press I have used, especially the progressive ones, the primer feed system always seems to be the major weak link.

Are you loading both rifle and pistol? Look for presses that can handle both and use interchangeable tool heads of one sort or another.

Personally, I wold rather see new folks start with single stages so they can take their time to turn out quality ammo while they keep an eye on every stage and learn all of the processes. Too many new folks (especially those shooting semis) want a progressive right off the bat so they can "crank out the ammo" without regard for what they are really doing. This MAY be a disaster waiting to happen if not careful.

JMO, YMMV

[l98ster]

I own both and by far, hands down, no question, absolutely, definitly, the dillon is the better machine!!!! (yes, I am that sure of my opinion!!!) The lee machine, while much cheaper than the dillon, shows that it is much cheaper in its performance.

Lee:
1) the primer feed is the worst you will ever use. Every 15-20 primers there is a jam. This is not just me, It is just about everyone that I talked to. Just so there is no confusion, I thoroughly clean all my machines after every use.

2) The powder disc measure is alright, but you cannot fine tune a load. The volume of each cavity is non adjustable, so you can get close to what you want, but there is no way of making fine adjustments

3) the spent primers will fall all over the place.

4) the auto indexing of the lee is very tempremental. Just one short stroke, and you need to adjust the machine again.

Dillon:
Nothing that I can think of. It has been flawless for close to 20,000 rounds so far!

Overall, if you can swing the price of the dillon 650, go for it. If you cant, go for the 550b. Last resort would be the Lee.

Again, this is just my opinion!!

-George

[geetarman]

oneounceload,

Good response. I started out on an RCBS single stage and loaded a lot of super ammo. When I moved to Arizona and started shooting again, all my friends were using Dillon products. I bought some Dillon products and was IMPRESSED with their customer service. Their service is just over the top.

I decided to take the plunge and get set up with the 550B and have never looked back.

I have been more than pleased.

[Shoney]

He first thing you need to examine is, How many cartridges are you currently shooting - - per week - - per month - - per year. The only absolute true comment about starting to reload is, You will shoot more rounds than before you started reloading, probably a lot more. Many feel that a novice should start on a single stage press, and ther is merit to that approach.

If you ARE NOT shooting more than 1000 pistol or a 1000 gas gun cartridges per month, the Lee Classic Turret is your press. This press will act like a single stage when you want, and then utilize the turret features when you need them. Rifle cartridge loading on this press is easy.

If you have a very high mechanical aptitude, are patient, and have a great tolerance to frustration, then you should have lots of cash you don’t need, throw the buck$ at Dillon$ 650. Loading rifle cartridges on this press can be a pain in the touché if you are loading with extruded powders that need each case weighed individually, so also look at that feature.

Good Shooting!

[TriumphGuy]

If you search the forum for average comments, the Lee seems to require more fussing and mechanical acuity to keep it running smoothly. The Dillon is a tank and has a few more bells and whistles available for it.

That pretty much sums it up. My Loadmaster cranks 100% smooth after proper adjustment, but you have to be willing to get it there. If you do everything right, it will work every time. The payoff is that you can buy a couple of Loadmasters for what a Dillon costs.

The biggest complaint I hear is about primer feeding. If you mount your press solid and follow the instructions, you won't have any problems there. Another trick is to get a universal decapping die and put your sizing die on station 2 where you prime the cases. The extra support helps line up the case. I don't have a problem with the autodisk measure. The optional charge bar and micro-disk kit are all you need if you want to fine tune. The upside of the system is that it's extremely consistent.

[oneounceload]

All good responses so far - I can say that after going through them all, I have come full circle back to single stages. I DO need to get another shotshell progressive as that is my current passion and major shooting. For rifles, IMO, accuracy is paramount, otherwise why bother to reload? For that, weighing each powder charge and carefully seating the bullet seems to negate the use of a progressive - which leaves handgun. If you're the "spray and pray" "gotta shoot 1000 rounds an hour" type, then get the progressive and turn out ammo equal to the walmart stuff at less cost. Otherwise, if you're looking to load quality ammo for accuracy, then you might want to rethink your methodology.

Personally, accuracy trumps firepower everytime

[physikal]

I was debating this not long ago. I ended up going with the Hornady Lock and Load AP. I LOVE it. Much better price, you get free bullets with it, and it is excellent quality.

[BigJakeJ1s]

The Lee Loadmaster and Dillon 650 are about as far apart as you will get in a consumer progressive press. There's a lot of fertile ground in between, including the Hornady LNL AP, the Dillon 550, and the RCBS Pro-2000 (with or without auto-indexing).

There is a somewhat dated comparison of Dillon, Hornady, and Lee progressive presses here:

http://www.comrace.ca/cmfiles/dillon...Comparison.pdf

The case ejection on the LNL AP has been updated (EZ-ject) since that comparison was written. EZ-ject is much better, and has no problems with other brands of crimp dies in the 5th station. The 650 and loadmaster are unchanged since the review.

Some presses are easier to use as a single stage or as a turret press while you learn the ropes. The Dillon 550 and Hornady LNL AP fall into this category. However, they are not as easy to use as SS or turret as a true SS or turret press is.

Andy

[Dragonheart2]

Lot's of good information here, but unless you have a need for huge quantities of ammo you might want to consider the Dillon 550. I quite frankly don't have the time to shoot the ammo I can reload on my 550 in just one evening. Also take a look at the total cost of reloading multiple calibers, it's more than just a set of dies.

[sonick808]

to be fair, you CAN tailor loads with the autodisk.. you just add the 9$ adjustable charge bar

[.5moagimp]

Thank you ALL for the tremendous feedback, I do think I need to start slow and get afeel for quality ammo loading as mentioned. But for now i think the dillon is the winner for the future. Again, thanks so much for the input!

[SVO]

If you plan to re-load rifle ammo, the Dillon 650 is going to be rifle caliber limited. The Lee won't be. The Dillon 550 would be the better choice of the Dillon's for pistol & rifle re-loading.

[Waldog]

Read this: http://www.comrace.ca/cmfiles/dillon...Comparison.pdf

I have used a Dillon Square Deal, 550, 650 and 1050
I have NOT USED a Lee progressive
I own a Hornady LNL.

[FrankenMauser]

You get what you pay for...




The Dillon XL650 is in no way comparable to a Lee Load Master. It's like comparing potatoes to blueberries.

If you want a closer comparison to the Dillon, check out the Hornady progressive. (Lee is entry-level. Everyone knows what entry-level cars, computers, guns, and tools get you.... Nothing but headaches, and wasted money.)

[sonick808]

FrankenMauser is a huge Lee fan. LOL

Lee stuff is great. high ROI doesn't necessarily mean it's entry level.

Given the choice i'd like to have the Dillon though. Their storefront is in Scottsdale and it is reloading heaven in there.

[Mike Irwin]

I'm a confirmed Lee user.

But in this case, a choice between the loadmaster and the 650, I"m going to tell you to go 650 if you can.

I've not had a lot of success with several loadmasaters in the past. Cranky, cantankerous, fiddly, and a bunch of other not so great adjectives.

[Headgear]

I love the alarms on the 650. When you run low on primers or powder or have a low or high powder charge, it tells you. I don't rely on the powder check completely but if you have a big discrepancy it tells you. I can't get past weighing every tenth round or so but Iv'e run thousands through it and never had a problem with a charge.

Dillon's customer service is nuts. I had a locking bolt on the shell plate come loose and called them cause it wasn't indexing correctly. The guy walked me through finding and fixing it Then he said he was going to send me a part that causes the indexing. I told him no its fine now, I'll call if I need it. He said, " this piece does wear and after forty or fifty thousand rounds you may need it. He sent it. Whats up with that? I hope I remember that I have it in forty or fifty thousand rounds.

I hope you have good luck with which ever one you get. Be safe!

[jmorris]

but price is not always condusive of a better product.

Not always but it is in this case. I have Lee stuff too but they don't make anything that is on par with the 650.

[Sevens]

Lee gets a pretty good share of bashing in the world of reloading, but they are trying to build products that work, are safe, and meet a VERY low price point. In many/most of their products, they do EXACTLY that and because of those products, they sell as much or more tools than anyone in the industry. Lee products allow a lot of folks to get in to the ballgame without spending more money then their last firearm.

If it was all junk, the company wouldn't last. These guys have been around for many, many years and people continue to buy their products. Lee also makes the lion's share of their products here in the USA. Many of the tools I use are Lee products.

To discount the entire company because of their name or their color is just this side of complete and total idiocy. My advice is if you come across anyone who discounts anything made or sold by Lee just because it's Lee, then you are looking at a steaming shovel full of fresh crap being served right at you. Listen to that and you are making a mistake.

On a few of their tools it seems horribly obvious to me that many of the Lee bashers either haven't used them or are too dense to figure out the best way to use them. Obvious examples include the rubber o-ring die lock rings. Countless people bash them and it simply has to be because they aren't bright enough to use them. Another fine example is the Lee Safety Scale -- gets bashed all the time for being a piece of junk. Fact is that it's difficult to use and hard to manipulate, but it's miles from a piece of junk. It's very accurate and costs a fraction of any other beam scale on the planet. Their case trimming tools also do a fine job and cost pennies compared to trimming setups offered by EVERY other company in reloading.

When you are talking about progressive machines, however, no sane person that is willing to tell the truth can confidently say that any Lee progressive press is a better machine than a Dillon machine.

The folks that use, like and advocate Lee progressive machines are the type of people that have found a machine that works for them for a LOT less money than anyone else in the game can build. But if money isn't an object, trying to compare a Lee progressive to Dillon isn't going to be much of a comparison.

If I were buying a progressive machine today, I would buy a Hornady LnL AP and take the terrific free bullet offer they are giving until the end of the year.

I would take any Dillon machine in any condition from anywhere or anyone if it was a good deal on price. I know that Dillon stands behind their products 100%. But to buy new, I'd buy the Hornady.

[wxl]

I have a Dillon 550 (15+ years), great reloader. Only use if I need large quantity of reloads which is not often. Do use it when needing 10mm and 45acp. I have loaded 44mag and 45Colt on the Dillon but usually do not since I do not need the volume.

Have loaded 300+ 44mags in last 6 months (100 at a time) but on a Redding T7 and weighed each load.

Also reload for 357mag, 357 sig, 41mag, 44mag, 45Colt,454Casull handguns.

In rifle, 223Rem, 22Hornet, 7-08, 243, 270 Win, 30 carbine, 300WinMag, 300WSM,308, 375HH, 416 Rigby

For 25+ years I did my reloading on a Lee 3 hole turret (mostly in single stage mode) until I changed to a Redding T7 last year. I have loaded everyone of the above on a Lee hand press if I needed couple dozen rounds for an occasion (and still use it)

I am not a volume shooter, like to customize my loads for different scenarios and enjoy cranking them out on the turret or T7 or hand press..I also weigh each load most of the time unless I am on the Dillon. I usually hand prime with one of the RCBS hand primers.

Unless you think you will be a volume shooter (hundreds or several 100s per month), I personally would go with a turret or single press. Even if you do shoot 100 to 200 per month, that is only 20 or 30 minutes on a Dillon per month. I would miss the joy in reloading.

[FrankenMauser]

I seem to have stepped on a few more toes, than usual.

Not always but it is in this case. I have Lee stuff too but they don't make anything that is on par with the 650.

Exactly.
In no way, was my post simply bashing Lee - just, because it's Lee.
I can see where some would get that idea, with my "entry-level tools" comment; but, that wasn't the idea.

I own, operate, and recommend certain Lee tools. Often, those recommendations come with caveats, but I do the same for other manufacturers. (Search through my post history. I bash the RCBS Hand Primer even more than Lee dies, while recommending the Lee Auto Prime or RCBS Universal Hand Prime.)


... I think my intended message has finally been cleared up by subsequent posters, as well.

The Lee Load Master works - but, is in no way in the same class as the Dillon 650.
The Dillon is a fantastic piece of equipment, built by a great company. However; If I were paying retail prices for the presses, I, too, would buy the Hornady press. (And that's saying a lot - I have a personal tie to one of the co-designers of the 650.)


Like Sevens - you get me a better deal on the Dillon, and it's a not a question any more. The Dillon wins.