What Is The Cost Advantage Of Reloading?

[dsa1115]

After the initial start up costs for the press, dies, scale, and other tooling, how much less expensive is it to reload yourself? Also, if someone was new to reloading, would you recommend starting with a single stage press or just bite the bullet (no pun intended), and get a progressive press? Finally, I noticed the single stage presses are really inexpensive. If I bought both a single stage and a progressive press, are the dies interchangable? I've also been told that if you do an accurate job reloading, that the reloaded ammunition can be more precise than factory? Is this true? In advance, thanks for the advice.

[Brian Pfleuger]

After the initial start up costs for the press, dies, scale, and other tooling, how much less expensive is it to reload yourself?

It depends entirely on the cartridge. You can save anywhere from next to nothing to 75% or more.


You should definitely, DEFINITELY start with either a turret or single stage press so that you can get a feel for the process and keep a close eye on things without getting into information overload.

Generally, the dies are interchangeable. There are a few exceptions.

It is unquestionably true that you can produce ammunition that is more accurate and consistent than factory ammo. By definition, factory ammo must be loaded to work in every gun, in every conceivable condition, with varying magazine sizes, throat lengths and slight chamber variations that exist. Your own ammo can be loaded specifically for your own gun. The accuracy difference is much more apparent (generally) with rifles than with handguns but the cost differential can be substantial for both.

[dsa1115]

I'll be loading .380, 9mm, and .45ACP. My long guns are .223 and 7.62 x 39. I was curious what kind of saving I could expect after the initial start up costs. Thanks for the advice.

[Shoney]

dsa1115 asked:
reloaded aunitionmm canmor be e precise than factory?

Yes, the loads can be custom tuned to your weapons.

Is it cost effective? Yes!

How much of a savings? That depends on a lot of factors. If you buy bulk components, then it is much less expensive per round. The greatest savings is in rifle reloading, can be as much or more than 1/2 price. Pistol can be from 20% savings on up to 60%, again depending on the components.

Cost of the equipment varies so widely that it is hard to factor in, but a mid-range press can be paid for in as little as 10 boxes of rifle reloads.

Your savings will actually be great, but the only absolute in the reloading game is: "You will shoot much more!"

[SKULLANDCROSSBONES65]

G'day. Try this Cartridge Cost Calculator.

I worked out my setup will pay for its self in under 1000 shots for a .270 and single stage press.

[ligonierbill]

Just to avoid future disappointment, your long gun rounds can often be found in bulk from purveyors of surplus at pretty good prices. You will be hard pressed to save money if you're just after practice ammo. Same with 9 mm, although pistol ammo is still pretty tight. The .380 has been scarce a hen's teeth, so you will at least have ammo by rolling your own. Now, if you want premium bullets, custom loads, etc, you definitely want to reload. The rifle surplus will probably be FMJ, no good for hunting and not the best for defense. The bottom line for me is that I enjoy it. That makes it worth every nickel, whether or not I'm saving money.

[Arch in Maylene]

I started handloading 9MM, 30-06 and 30-30 in 1964. As a college student, I wanted to maximize beer and ammunition and minimize cost. Here are some of the things I have learned:

1. Recurring costs are lower. Rather than buying Blazer Brass 45 ACP at $22 per box (44¢ a round) I spend 3.7¢ for a primer, 1.2¢ for powder and 22¢ for a Hornady 230 gn FMJ. The savings is about 40%, but the ammo is much better. If you want to cast your own, buy a Lee microgroove mold and melt down wheel weights at about 1.2¢ per round. At 6.1¢ per trigger squeeze, it's cheaper than most 22 LR.

2. Custom tailored ammunition. Suppose you want to teach your daughter to shoot without frightening her, a problem that can instill long term negative reaction - flinching and jerking the trigger. Last summer, I took my 19 year old niece to the range to shoot her first pistol - her great grandfather's WWI Colt Model 1911, issued to him in in France in 1918. I loaded some 230 gn lead RN with 4 gn of Bullseye as opposed to 5.3 max load. After about 200 rounds, she was putting holes consistently inside the 8 ring from 25 yards, even with max loads. [$35 Caldwell electronic noise reduction also helped.] Point is, you control the performance.

3. Consistent performance. Yesterday, I took my new Bersa Thunder9 HC to the range and brought along my $100 chronograph. I loaded 10 rounds with Red Dot and 10 with Unique - same primers, same brass, same crimp, same pistol. I also brought Blazer Brass and Winchester white box. Since kinetic energy equals half the mass times the velocity squared, the most important factor is muzzle velocity. To my surprise, Unique delivered ±10 fps. Winchester and Blazer followed. Red Dot was ±33 fps. I plan to alter some of the parameters to see if I can improve my loads. Also, I would encourage serious handloaders consider the new inexpensive chronographs.

4. Availability of ammunition. The anti-gunners realize that they can't keep us from owning weapons. Their next target will be ammunition. I have at least 2,000 pieces of brass in each caliber - 9MM, 45 ACP, 30-06. I've laid in 11,000 primers, 88 pounds of powder and a mix of bullets and lead wheel weights. Barack Obama will be dead of old age before I need to purchase a box of commercial ammunition.

5. You will not save money; you will shoot more, which is good. If you need to use a gun, proficiency will determine whether you live or die.

[Arch in Maylene]

Every manufacturer has a kit for $350. They are all incomplete and contain some marginal components. If you're not sure, find someone who reloads and ask them if they will let you buy a set of dies and help you load 100 rounds. Looking at a press at BassPro and actually pulling the handle are way different.

Buy a $35 Lee hand press kit - press, ram prime, funnel and a tube of Alox. It can do anything a $120 RCBS or Lyman press can. Buy a Lee 4-die carbide mold set for $45. It includes a shell holder and a powder measure. You'll need a scale. In the fullness of time you'll need a $80 beam balance scale, but short tern, buy a $25 electronic scale.

If you look at the basics, you can start loading for less than $200 and if you think it's not for you, you can get rid of the hardware.

[zippy13]

I just ran the numbers for my 200-grain LSWC .45ACP target ammo: with $30/1000 primers, $25/pound powder and $125/1000 for bullets, I can reload my target rounds for about $8.38/box of 50. Similar ammo sells from $26.00 to $42.00. That's a savings of 68 to 80%.

If that's not enough, consider casting your own bullets, and drop your cost to less than $3.25/box of 50 (based on two cents worth of materials per bullet) and get your savings up to more than 87 to 92%

The savings is significant; but, most folks don't reload just to save money. They reload to control the quality and to shoot more for the same amount of money. The guy practicing next to me thinks he got a great deal getting his ammo for $26 and will be ready to go home after his 50 rounds are expended. For that same $26, I get to shoot 400 rounds that have been custom tailored for my gun. The guy who paid $42.00 for his 50 target rounds could have reloaded 646 rounds, or almost 13 boxes!

[Jim243]

Everyone has answered so many of this question, I am supprised we are not quoting each other every time.

Your answers are - Yes, yes, yes, yes and yes.

At todays prices for ammo you will save lots on, 380 & 45 ACP, it is questionable on 9mm, but again yes you will have a much better round to use than you can find on any shelf unless you buy MATCH ammo, now that is expensive so again the answer is YES.

The bigest savings for the reloader is on rifle ammo, almost 80 % less cost to reload. However, you mentioned 223 and 7.62x39, there is a ton of junk ammo out there in these calibers and it seem to be cheaper but it is not. Most of the cheap 223 and 7.62 uses steel cases that are coated, that coating will come (flake) off in your chamber, trigger assembley gas tube and just about any other part of your gun you can think of. This is not good for your rifle or your pocket book in the long run. If you are using a AK47 or SKS for your 7.62x39 then go at it and use the crap ammo, my SKS shoots 5 inch groups with the crap ammo and 1 1/2 groups with my brass reloads (Winchester cases and Hornady bullets). You decide what you want to use! Is it cheaper for me to reload the brass than buy the new Winchester White Box (WWB), you bet your bipy it is. The junk 223s will shoot in most ARs but will eventual tear them up. (it's too expensive a gun to abuse) For my AR I will only use winchester brass others will disagree and suggest Luppa instead but I am not that rich.

That's the long and short of it, I would suggest you get yourself a LEE Classic Turret Press for your first press. Later you can go Progressive but it is a little harder to use and I after 6 years have not had a need for one.

Jim

[mongoose33]

Start w/ a single-stage. Learn the steps, learn to make good ammo that way, then graduate to a progressive. You'll want a single-stage anyway, for working up loads for small numbers of rounds, pulling bullets, sizing rifle brass, etc.

The short version is that if you're reusing brass, you can save half or more of the cost of commercial ammo by reloading it yourself.

I load 9mm for just over 10 cents per round; can't buy it for less than 21 cents per round.

I load .45 ACP for about 13 cents per round; can't buy it for less than 35 cents per round.

I load .223 for about 18-19 cents per round; can't buy it for less than 41 cents per round.

The net effect of this is that since i can load over 300 rounds per hour w/ handgun (somewhat less w/ .223), I end up "earning" in excess of $70 per hour w/ .45, and "earning" more than $33 per hour reloading 9mm. That's conservative, btw.

These savings only obtain if you buy your components in bulk and reuse brass. Bulk means powder by the 8# jug, bullets by the thousands, primers by the thousands.

If you're thinking of going to a progressive eventually (and it sounds like you are), buy dies that are effective w/ both. If you intend to buy, for instance, a Hornady LnL AP progressive press, buy the Hornady dies. You get 500 bullets free w/ the press, and 100 bullets w/ the dies. It helps offset the cost. Don't buy lee dies expecting later to get the Hornady; they are sometimes problematic w/ the LnL press (because the Lee dies are short), and the free bullets makes the price of the (imo) better Hornady dies effectively the same as the Lee dies.

[rottieman33]

I reload .308 cost me about $8.00 per 20 to buy at store $16-$18 per 20

http://10xshooters.com/calculators/R...Calculator.htm

[TheNatureBoy]

Initially there isn't any savings/cost advantage to reloading because you have to purchase equipment and components i.e. bullets, primers, powder. The savings come later.

[Crosshair]

You will be hard pressed to save money if you're just after practice ammo.

I can load .223 for about $175 per 1K and it's decent ammo, not match grade, by more accurate than the bargain basement stuff.

The key is to buy in bulk.

[JWK1107]

You will be hard pressed to save money if you're just after practice ammo.

My cost to crank out 1000 rounds of "practice" ammo for my 10mm autos is around 150 bucks. And they're a WHOLE lot more fun to shoot than the watered down stuff you can buy in bulk for 2-3 times that.

[Dave R]

I just ran the numbers again on .223.

MY cost, buying components in small volume, full retail price, is 29 cents a round. This is for good quality varmit loads using 40 gr. Hornady V-max. Which just explodes those varmits--WITH PREJUDICE.

A buddy felt great 'cuz he scored 400 rounds of bulk .223 for $200. That's 50 cents a round for cheap ammo.

Closest to what I reload is Hornady factory ammo, at $17 per 20 on the internet. That's 85 cents a round.

So my loads are 42% less than cheap bulk ammo, and 65% less than comparable factory ammo.

And there are lots of people who get their costs lower than mine, buying components in bulk.

[whitedogone]

44 mag

WW white box is 36.00+ here
I can load full boat XTP's for 18.50 a box

A savings of $20.47/50 after equipment is paid for.

[salvadore]

Here's a good one..Midway sells 32/20 ammo from various manufacturers averaging around $40 a box with shipping etc. These are 800 fps to 1200 fps designed for older guns and the howdy doody dressin squib shootin cowpokes. My cast gascheck at 1600+ from my Marlin 94 that has grouped ten into a little over 2" with eight of those into a little over 1" at 100yds. Cost per box of 50= $6.50 with cast 100 and 90 gr JHPs @ around 2000fps box of 50=$12 to $13. Factory JHPs no longer seem to be available. Getting into reloading was the smartest thing I ever did.

[RamSlammer]

Ran the math on the load going through my press at the moment which is .45 ACP using my old cases and lead bullets purchased at $39/50. Primer cost was $30/1000 and powder cost per box of 50 was $0.71. I get $6.11 per box of 50. Even assuming I had no brass and bought used brass off a forum like this at $60/500 (which would be high), and used it 6-8X that would still be below $8 per box of 50 for .45 ACP.

On the other hand, if I cast my own bullets (which I'm too lazy to do since lead bullets are available online fairly cheap), AND used my old brass, the cost per box of 50 comes down to primers and powder. A box of 50 done that way runs $2.25 assuming $20/lb for powder and $30/100 for primers.

[medalguy]

Here's my 2 cents on cost. I'm presently loading a bunch of .223 and my costs are:
Brass .045 which is initial cost, subsequently it's zero
Bullet .067 purchased from Surplusammo.com in lot of 10K
Primer .031 purchased from Powder Valley
Powder .05 purchased from Pat's Reloading(milsurp powder, out of stock)
Total per round .193 for initial loading
Total per round .148 for subsequent loading (UNDER 15 CENTS PER ROUND)

Anybody beat that?

Yes you can load cheaper than you can buy it. Anybody buying .223 for 50 cents a round and thinking it's a good deal???:barf:

[javven]

Others have good advice. For me it boils down to the following:

1. You're not going to save much if anything loading for 9mm, 5.56 NATO or 7.62x39 Russian. Exception: You can both make better match - grade ammo than you can buy and you can beat the prices.

2. You will have the ability to generate nearly anything you wish and have it available when you want it. Does your rifle like flat - base bullets, but all you can find in the weight you like in factory ammo is boat tails? No problem.

3. Once you're set up to reload - nearly any cartridge becomes available to you. Try going to the store for 338-06. One of my favorite calibers - but ammo's hard to find factory loaded (I'm not sure anyone even loads it anymore). However - you can produce this round either from the parent cartridge case or other parent - based cartridge cases which are more readilly available.

4. Handloading is fun but time-consuming. You should not attempt to make the process faster than you can go at a diligent, consistent pace. Consistency is everything in handloading, after safety of course.

[darkgael]

brass - .223 for .045. Who is selling new brass for less than five cents a case? Share please?

Pete

[Lost Sheep]

As Jim243 suggested, we tend to repeat the same advice (to the same questions) because every new reloader starts out needing the same advice.

I have thought of a few things I think are useful for handloaders to know or to consider which seem to be almost universal, so I put together this list which I repeat every so often.

Consider also the "sticky" at the top of this forum.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=230171
or, if the link does not work, paste this into your browser
thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230171

So much is a matter of personal taste. All advice carries this caveat, "your mileage may vary".

I put together an arbitrary list that I think is illuminating. I call them my Ten Advices.

When I bought my first gun (.357 Magnum Dan Wesson revolver), I bought, at the same time, a reloading setup because I knew I could not afford to shoot if I did not reload my own ammo. It cost me about 1/4 of factory ammo per round and paid for itself pretty quickly. I did not use a loading bench at all. I just mounted the press on a 2 x 6 plank long enough to wedge into the drawer of an end table. Good leverage meant the table did not lift or rock. I still use the same plank, but not it is mounted in a Black & Decker folding workbench. A loading bench "bolted to the center of the earth" would be more stable, but I do not feel deprived without it.

Advice #1 I found "The ABC's of Reloading" to be a very good reference. Short on data, yes, but I found it full of knowledge and understanding of the process. Check out offereings in your local library. Dated, perhaps, but you can taste-test their writing style. Richard Lee's book "Modern Reloading" has a lot of food for thought, and does discuss the reasoning behind his opinions (unlike many manuals, and postings). Whether right or wrong, the issues merit thought, which that book initiates. It is not a simple book, though and you will find it provocative reading for many years.

Read as many manuals as you can, for the discussion of the how-to steps. What one manual covers thinly, another will cover well. As far as load data in older manuals, the powder manufacturers and bullet manufacturers may have better information and their web sites are probably more up to date. But pay attention to what the ammunition was test-fired from. (regular firearm vs a sealed-breech pressure test barrel, for example)

The reason you want more than one or two is that you want to read differing authors/editors writing styles and find ones that "speak" to you. You also get better coverage of the subject; one author or editor may cover parts of the subject more thoroughly than the others.

Only after you know the steps can you look at the contents of a reloading kit and know what parts you will use and what parts the kits lack.

The public library should have manuals you can read, then decide which ones you want to buy.

There are instructional videos now that did not exist in the '70s when I started.

Load mid-range or slightly light at first so overpressures are not concerns. Just concentrate on getting the loading steps right and being VERY VERY consistent (charge weight, crimp strength, seating depth, primer seating force, all that)

You will probably spill powder or drop a primer eventually, so consider what you have for floor covering when you pick your reloading room. (Note: my worktable is portable, a folding workbench with two presses mounted on a board that I simply clamp into place. One press has a large primer feed, the other a small primer feed.)

Advice #2 Almost every manufacturer of loading equipment makes good stuff; if they didn't, they would lose reputation fast and disappear from the marketplace. Better equipment costs more generally. Cast aluminum is lighter and less expensive. Cast iron lasts practically forever. Lee makes good equipment, but is generally considered the "economy" equipment maker, though some of their stuff is considered preferable to more expensive makes. Just think about what you buy.

Almost every manufacturer makes a kit that contains everything you need to do reloading (except dies and the consumables). A decent way to get started without too much prior experience. Eventually most reloaders wind up replacing many of the components of the kit as their personal taste develops, but you will have gotten started, at least..

Advice #3 Learn on a single stage press or a turret press. Do not learn on a progressive press. Too many things happening at the same time are hard to keep track of. Missing a step or doubling up on a step can be disastrous.

Advice #4 Tungsten Carbide dies for your straight-walled cartridge cases. They do not require lubrication which will save you time. Carbide expander button for your bottlenecked cases. Keeps lube out of the inside of the cases.

Advice #5 Find a mentor. There is no substitute for someone watching you load a few cartridges and critiquing your technigue BEFORE you develop bad habits or make a dangerous mistake. (A mistake that might not have consequences right away, but maybe only after you have escaped trouble a hundred times until one day you get bit, for instance having case lube on your fingers when you handle primers 99 times, no problem because primers are coated with a sealant, but the hundredth primer may not be perfectly sealed and now winds up "dead")

I started loading with the guy who sold me my press watching over my shoulder as I loaded my first 6 rounds to make sure I did not blow myself up, load a powderless cartridge or set off a primer in the press. There is nothing like a tutor, or better yet, a mentor. A longer mentoring period might have changed my reloading style, but I learned a lot in those first 6 rounds, as he explained each step. Then I educated myself after that.

After you have been mentored, mentor someone else. Not necessarily in loading or the shooting sports, but in SOMETHING in which you are enthusiastic and qualified. Just give back to the community.

Advice #6 Wear eye protection, especially when seating primers

Advice #7 Don't pinch your fingers in your press.

Advice #8 Read previous threads on reloading, here are a couple I recommend.
http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve
http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=13543
http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/view...fbd5ae1f754eec
The second one is a thread started by a new recruit to reloading which the moderators thought highly enough of to make it "sticky" so it stays on the top of the list of threads.

Advice #9 When you buy the very best, it hurts only once, in the wallet. When you buy cheap (too cheap) it hurts every time you use the gear. The trick is to buy good enough (on the scale between high quality and low price) to keep you happy without overpaying.

Advice #10 Verify for yourself everything you learn. Believe only half of what you see and one quarter of what you hear. That goes double for everything you find on the internet (with the possible exception of the actual web sites of the bullet and powder manufacturers). This advice applies to my message as much as anything else and especially to personal load recipes. Hare-brained reloaders might have dangerous habits and even an honest typographical error could be deadly.

Good luck.

Lost Sheep

[Crosshair]

Who is selling new brass for less than five cents a case? Share please?

Who buys new brass? I always buy once fired or just pick it up off the ground at the range.

[darkgael]

Crosshair:

Quote:
Who is selling new brass for less than five cents a case? Share please?
Who buys new brass? I always buy once fired or just pick it up off the ground at the range.
__________________

Yeah, understood. My question was in reference to an earlier post where brass was quoted at .045 per case.
If it is possible, I'd like to know.
Pete