The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 15, 2017, 09:53 PM   #51
Screwball
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2012
Location: ME
Posts: 768
Training with flashlights, WMLs, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FireForged View Post
sure you can... that was my whole point. If you are relegated to only one, I would use a hand held light and if I am going to use a wml, I would make sure to have a second light.

You sure that is your point, because you seem to be gunning against weapon lights pretty hard. If so, I'll agree on that... stated what I normally carry on me previously.

Your other two arguments really don't defend one verses the other. If you engage a threat with either a flashlight or a weapon light, you aren't going to notice the guy off in the darkness (if he is in such a position that spill doesn't aluminate them). If you are drawn on someone or just shot them, they are going to be the center of your attention. Just because you have a flashlight instead of a weapon light, your aren't going to be searching for someone else as your gun is on a perceived threat or as you are firing. If you do think you are going to get into a position like that... situational awareness. I'm having the feeling we are talking about civilian concealed carry more than L/E use, so that characteristic is something I'd stress on.

If you are in a room/area that doesn't work well with your light, also at a hinderance (includes all lights). You can have too bright (rather have it, mainly for the disorientation), but can also have limited throw. My P3X works great with vehicles that have tinted windows, but 1,000 Lumens can also be a pain in a hallway/small room (why I like the standard models, with the second 15 Lumen mode). My TLR-3 only has 125 Lumens, but the spill makes it worth it for most of the conceivable scenarios that I'd pull my Glock 30S out... and if it isn't fit, a Surefire is right there. But the TLR-3 isn't a huge weapon light or makes carrying my 30S extremely difficult (really, was just an additional holster). There is always pros/cons for every choice of gear... just need to make the best choice for your situation/need.

A weapon light is just more capability. It isn't going to be the reason you were killed in a defensive situation, because you had the light on your pistol. Someone can give their position away just as easy, if not easier, with a regular flashlight by waving it back and forth. It is something to work on, whether you are watching someone use a flashlight at night to see how big a neon sign they can make themselves out to be, or practicing it inside your house.

I consider a weapon light similar to a reload. If you don't use it, it isn't a big deal. You did what you needed to do with what was in the gun. But if you do need it and don't have it, you kind of are up that proverbial creek without a paddle. Not suggesting to just carry a weapon light, but if you can put it into your carry setup, and are willing to do a little training with it... it is a very good addition for that situation everyone hopes never happens.
Screwball is offline  
Old September 16, 2017, 05:54 AM   #52
Skadoosh
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2010
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 2,016
Quote:
Thanks, Skadoosh for your post. In that case, the light allowed you to decide against shooting, but of course the opposite case is also true. But I wonder if your training ever included playing the opposite role? Lights, like guns, have no loyalty; anyone can use them. It would be interesting to find out if any has ever played the person in the dark waiting for the guy with the WML to come hunting for him? What does HE see?

Jim
Don't wonder. Of course my training included playing orange forces. I have literally stood alone behind a pile of desks and file cabinets in a very dark room....and waited. And at the end of each scenario, I always wound up rubbing welts and having to wipe wax from my facemask. When an opposing team had their act together, it didn't matter that I had a pretty good idea of when and where from they would press...it didn't matter that I saw the occasional sweep of their WMLs. I could count on getting lit up in both the literal and figurative sense of the word. And rarely did I score hits on more than one attacker before taking hits of my own. I considered getting hits on the first one I saw a personal success. If I managed hits on two or more, I considered it a mission victory.

I am having trouble understanding why you fail to see what WMLs bring to the table in terms of leveling the odds. A WML is only a piece of gear. Like any piece of gear, it should be used only when actually needed and not used when not needed. This is not rocket science. Its risk management. Used sparingly and judiciously, in my experience a WML is useful in sidelining Mr. Murphy.
__________________
NRA Life Member
USN Retired

Last edited by Skadoosh; September 16, 2017 at 06:09 AM.
Skadoosh is offline  
Old September 16, 2017, 08:12 AM   #53
FireForged
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 4, 1999
Location: Rebel South USA
Posts: 2,074
Quote:
your aren't going to be searching for someone else as your gun is on a perceived threat or as you are firing
Brother, if you have your gun on a badguy... lets say you have him prone on the ground and you think someone else is nearby or someone else is moving up on you... you are likely going to look. You are likely going to momentarily look (with or without) a WML You will do that so that you can make a decision to take some sort of action, change positions or retreat. It only takes a brief fraction of a second to do that. Its not a 15 minute affair, its more like .3 of a second. You may do it once, you may do it 2 or 3 times to satisfy your suspicions. It not an uncommon circumstance for anyone who is in the business of dealing with such things and if the suggestion is that taking the gun and the light off the badguy just to get a peek at something else is preferable to performing the same maneuver with a handheld light... I will politely disagree.

My words here or only meant to highlight the fact that when used broadly.. a WLM can have some drawbacks. They can have some drawbacks that would not otherwise be very likely with a handheld light. I think WMLs have their place and I think they are perfect in some narrow uses and especially on rifles/shotguns.
__________________
Life is a web woven by necessity and chance...

Last edited by FireForged; September 16, 2017 at 08:18 AM.
FireForged is offline  
Old October 1, 2017, 08:59 AM   #54
Skadoosh
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2010
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 2,016
I believe those who are firmly ensconced in the a "WML will get you killed" haven't actually been in mortal danger inside a structure that has no lighting even during daylight hours.

Those skeptics really should take twenty minutes out of their lives and watch this video, which is one of the best explanations and demonstrations that I have found to date.

"More brighter is more better".
__________________
NRA Life Member
USN Retired
Skadoosh is offline  
Old October 1, 2017, 11:15 AM   #55
2damnold4this
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 12, 2009
Location: Athens, Georgia
Posts: 2,525
Great video.
2damnold4this is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.07006 seconds with 10 queries