Walther PPQ 45 has landed...Range and pictorial review. - Page 2

doofus47 · September 16, 2015, 10:36 AM

Great review, mate.

Mystro · September 18, 2015, 01:30 PM

Just came back from another range trip with the PPQ45. I rapid fired so much I had to put the gun down. It was so hot I couldnt touch the slide to even rack it. Left hand, right hand,etc... just about any way you can shoot a handgun, I did it. Had fun rolling apples out to 30 yards and blowing them into a cloud of applesauce. So far my impressions and confidence in the PPQ45 is growing. What ever I looked at, I could hit it. It certainly the gun to have when under stress and relaxing your shooting form. Holster carry was also extremely comfortable. I know it was heavier than a PPQ9mm but didnt feel like it on the hip. No issues when driving long distances in my truck with it on the hip. The PPQ is moving into my #1 edc spot.

Was trying out some new ammo from Massammo.com.

The holster I was using today.

Bobgeorge · August 19, 2020, 05:17 PM

Old posts....but I just handgun. I have taken this gun to the range a few times and love how it feels and the accuracy. The trigger is excellent in that it seems to have a smooth pull.

Anyone else have any feedback on this gun?

JDBerg · August 19, 2020, 06:26 PM

You can’t argue with targets that have nice groups near center mass right where they should be. Some of us knew the Walther PPQ in .45 ACP was a seriously accurate piece and this just proves the point. Using quality ammo also makes a difference. A top shelf range report that anyone considering a .45 service pistol would have to give serious consideration to. Me and my Gen4 21 have our work cut out for us at the range this weekend!

TunnelRat · August 19, 2020, 06:28 PM

I remember 5 years ago, like it was 5 years ago.

Looks like Mystro hasn’t been around in 2 years or so. He always did nice reviews.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

JDBerg · August 19, 2020, 06:35 PM

It’s still nice to see targets that don’t look like Swiss cheese even if they are vintage!

Dan-O · August 19, 2020, 07:21 PM

On my short list

Jagrbomb · August 20, 2020, 04:51 PM

How is the recoil compared to that Sig 227 you have?

TunnelRat · August 20, 2020, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDBerg

It’s still nice to see targets that don’t look like Swiss cheese even if they are vintage!

No doubt. Mystro was always a good shooter. I always got good accuracy from the PPQs in 9mm I owned. Walther and accuracy are usually pretty synonymous.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Mystro · August 21, 2020, 08:30 AM

I am trying to get back on the forums more often now.

With the current Covid state, I was called back to duty for various caliber ammunition developments and all kinds of tactical implementations. No excuse but I need to hang out more.

Funny thing about the PPQ45. It has its own feel separate from all my other striker fire guns. It’s trigger pull and grip angle feels like you are pushing the bullet into the desired target. I have found that just about all my students that demo the PPQ over the years shoot it inherently accurate right from their first magazine. There is nothing to get use to other than the perceived lighter trigger break. I have to shoot everything but certain guns do stand out from the herd and the PPQ is one of them most fall in love with.

(FYI..Photobucket screwed many of our threads pics from the last few years. I am working with my own server to restore the lost pictures. )

My PPQ’s (and most of my handguns) are wearing Speedsights. I worked with the company a few years back developing proper figments for particular brands and models of handguns.

dgludwig · August 21, 2020, 07:40 PM

Quote:

I know your a big fan of the Sig 227 but it sounds like you found your new favorite.

Great review, Mystro. I am surprised at how old this thread is. Being a fan of the SIG models 220 and, especially, the Model 227, I'm interested as to how you would compare the hammer-fired (tangerine) SIG and the striker-fired (orange) Walther in terms of their uses as self-defense pistols.
I've never owned a Walther but I've always been extremely happy and never disappointed with the accuracy and reliability attributes SIG pistols possess. Too, my Sig Models 227 and 226 fit my hand as well as any other pistol does.

Mystro · August 22, 2020, 08:48 AM

I love them both equally. How is that for no help??? No seriously both platforms do what they do exceptionally well. They are two different animals. The P227 is truly a combat handgun and feels like a Swiss watch. The down fall to all this is it’s weight. It’s heavy to carry but that goes with what it is. My P227 is a custom shop and then some type of gun so it is one of the smoothest DA/SA Sigs you will ever shoot. The PPQ45 is bone stock internally and doesn’t need anything. Honestly I believe you could (and should) own both of these guns as they compliment each other. My P227 is one of my bed side handguns because I like DA/SA guns for the bump in the night duties. It also wears a 800 lume light which it’s platform carries very well. Polymer guns are workhorses that I won’t cry if they take a hit on the side of the vehicle getting in and out. The Sig all metal frame and G10 grips might make me cringe only because I mentally baby them a bit more (not that they are not just as tough). I literally own about every hand gun that is carried or used by LE and various military. They are tools for me. My duty hand gun varies from a G32 to a USP Compact in 40 or 357Sig. They are tools and I don’t care if they get chucked across the parking lot in a struggle. I do occasionally carry the a P226/P227/P229 on duty but their extra weight over the G32 becomes apparent an the end of the day. Weight is really the biggest downside of non polymer platforms and sums up why I carry polymer guns 90% of the time. I have my duty holsters set up for mainly three platforms of guns. A G23,G32,G19,G30s. All of those can and do get carried on duty. My Sig rig holds my P229,P226,P227 size platforms. The only oddball rig I use is for my HK USP Compacts and I own them in every caliber (9,40,357Sig,45acp). These three duty rigs allow me to carry a plethora of handguns. I have a Sheriff Dept shooting the PPQ45 and I will strap it on when visiting them. I deal a lot with various levels of training within the LE departments. If they carry a G17, then I will showcase ammo or gear for the G17. The tactical guys that have a more open end line of gear is when the different calibers and more expensive platforms are appreciated. My biggest issue with the PPQ in general was proper LE duty holsters. I worked directly with Walther on this issue. Walther needed to understand was that LE Dept buy handguns based on a platform across the line. Glock being the most common and easily to accommodate and what most used. To get a LE Dept to switch to a PPQ, I had to sell the buyers for the Dept on the idea that they need to also buy all new holsters and in some case extra magazine pouches. This made the PPQ a tough sell even though it shoots so much smoother and oozed high quality. It almost always boils down to money in the end regarding platforms and calibers.

dyl · August 22, 2020, 01:32 PM

Quote:

This made the PPQ a tough sell even though it shoots so much smoother and oozed high quality

Mystro,

I ask this common question of myself whenever I get a new pistol (whether for fun or carry/defense candidate), and I've seen this question asked by newcomers frequently here on the board. Since I see you've had extensive experience with the big name brands, I can't pass up the opportunity to ask you.
Of the firearms you've dealt with, which duty gun has in your experience shown the greatest potential for accuracy (mechanical, practical, or otherwise) ? (I suspect the PPQ45)
How about runner up?
And does the PPQ in 9mm show the same potential for accuracy as 45??

Here's why I ask. Over the years, I've settled on "the gun is more inherently accurate than the shooter" which is the common answer supplied by the forum. Which for a newer shooter points them in the right direction. Gun reviewers typically will obtain ~3-4 inch spread at 25 yards slow fire as the standard for a polymer duty gun. However, I've had some pistols that I've been convinced something was off. And sometimes the opposite is true, my tiny Kahr CM9 outperforms some of my compact pistols. With the shorter sight radius, long DA trigger pull, tiny grips, I have to think the mechanical accuracy is high despite the unhelpful human interface components working in the opposite direction.

And while I'm at it, a lot has happened since your original post. How do you feel about the P320 in comparison?

By the way, nice grouping @ 20 yards free hand. Incredible. What ammo were you using in that one (if you still remember?)

JDBerg · August 22, 2020, 10:55 PM

I’d heard that many LE agencies will only authorize use of double action striker service pistols, a.k.a the Glock striker design, where the striker is cocked by pulling the trigger. The PPQ striker is fully cocked when the action is cycled, thus in single action and ready to fire. When the trigger is pulled, the striker is released and fired. I’d be interested to learn which LE agencies either issue or authorize use of the Walther PPQ, and it would be interesting to hear about the LE track record of the gun.

ms6852 · August 23, 2020, 08:52 AM

Great review Mystro! If I did not know better I would say that you were working for Walther, but I know how great their guns are. I had always been a 1911 guy and never liked "Plastic" guns until I bought the PPQ in 9mm for my wife. Walther made me change my views and their guns are exceptionally made with their trigger pull being one of the lightest out of the box. Right know as I mentioned I carry 1911 and recently changed to a revolver 686+, but If I purchased another gun in 45 it would definitely be the Walther PPQ in 45 cal.

Mystro · August 24, 2020, 08:31 AM

As far as “inherently accurate?” It always comes down to the shooter and how neutral their shooting style is. Obviously no one is a machine when it comes to shooting but the quest for all marksmen is to develop a neutral shooting style. The more neutral and repetitive you can be, any handgun will perform well. One of the “crutches” I see from beginners to seasoned patrol officers is relying on one type of gun platform too much. A professional golfer will pick up a $50 set of garage sale clubs and still outperform the average golfer with a set of $3k Pings. A good shooting form can make up for a gritty trigger at defense distance shooting. Looking for the magic firearm to make up for bad shooting habits is what gun manufacturers count on and advertise in their “tacticool messages” and the new gun enthusiast eats this up as if this new and improved pistol suddenly will turn them into a tier one operator level of shooter. It goes without saying, the equipment isn’t why these guys are so good. They also train to shoot about every kind of firearm so that should tell you how much the operator behind the firearm is what really pushes the bullet to it’s mark.

Bottom line: Way too much attention is given to the gun itself on the forums. I would rather the ammo get more consideration than the firearm because it has more of a influence in end results than the mid to upper end firearm. Any of the quality level handguns from Walther, Sig, Glock, HK, etc... and a good shooting style will be more than accurate enough.
What firearm calls to you is totally a personal and subjective choice. Just make sure your not chasing a firearm to make up for personal shooting deficiencies.

me1911 · August 25, 2020, 11:15 AM

On guns with threaded barrels for suppressors can you remove the "suppressor nut" at the end of the barrel and still shoot the gun? Or, do you have to leave the nut screwed into the barrel?

Mystro · August 26, 2020, 09:45 AM

It’s just a thread protector. You may shoot it unsupressed with or without the thread protector on the end of the barrel.

me1911 · August 26, 2020, 10:27 AM

Thank you!

Mystro · August 26, 2020, 02:55 PM

One more word of advise with these thread protectors. Never over tighten or use loctite. Just check it every so often it isn’t unscrewing. I have seen these get so stuck to the point they had to be destroyed to get them off.

Mystro · August 27, 2020, 06:23 PM

I have been working with several LE agency with upgrading their duty ammo to the new HELO monolithic. I have worked with it and tested it when it was being developed. It wasn’t really going to be available to the consumer but I guess it was released in limited amounts??
Absolutely next level in terminal ballistics and barrier penetration. Departments and especially tactical entry teams were looking for a “one bullet does it all”. This is about as close as it gets.

Some of the test videos and lab results. Zero deflection through a windshield and opens up when shot through about any barrier.
https://youtu.be/pf08u41PMe0

I think It can only be purchased directly from the manufacturer and it looks like there isn’t any consumer restrictions.
https://www.alchemistammunition.com/

tomrkba · August 28, 2020, 08:03 AM

Dangit. There are new PPQ 45’s on gunbroker.

PolarFBear · August 28, 2020, 08:46 AM

I know I will offend many. But, looking over pictures in this "thread's" posts all I can see is HIGH POINT!

Mystro · August 28, 2020, 08:54 AM

I get it. When I was a kid I use to think a Pontiac Fierro looked just like a Ferrari on our family road trips.

wild cat mccane · August 28, 2020, 09:46 AM

That appears as the only 9mm ammunition available at times. At 185gr!

Sounds like you are well respected. I look forward to seeing the proof of the HELO brand.

Oops! thinking the Sesmic "Quake Maker" in 9mm. My bad.

Yes. The 9mm is as accurate as the 45 PPQ. The P99 20rnd Walther magazine fits the M1 PPQ with just an added inch. So the PPQ can hold more than a CZ competition Shadow and has natural point and a superior trigger.

I don't know. If something is immediately easier to hit the target (as you've reviewed above), I think we are assessing accuracy a bit wrong. Sure, all guns are easy and will shoot straight. But if one is just fundamentally easier by new shooters? That sounds better to me?

September 16, 2015, 10:36 AM	#26
doofus47 Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2010 Location: live in a in a house when i'm not in a tent Posts: 2,483	Great review, mate. __________________ I'm right about the metric system 3/4 of the time.

September 18, 2015, 01:30 PM	#27
Mystro Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2004 Location: Central Pa. Posts: 1,528	Just came back from another range trip with the PPQ45. I rapid fired so much I had to put the gun down. It was so hot I couldnt touch the slide to even rack it. Left hand, right hand,etc... just about any way you can shoot a handgun, I did it. Had fun rolling apples out to 30 yards and blowing them into a cloud of applesauce. So far my impressions and confidence in the PPQ45 is growing. What ever I looked at, I could hit it. It certainly the gun to have when under stress and relaxing your shooting form. Holster carry was also extremely comfortable. I know it was heavier than a PPQ9mm but didnt feel like it on the hip. No issues when driving long distances in my truck with it on the hip. The PPQ is moving into my #1 edc spot. Was trying out some new ammo from Massammo.com. The holster I was using today. __________________ "I'm a good guy with a gun" What do I care if I give up some freedom or rights?....The Goverment will take care of me. This kind of thinking is now in the majority and it should concern you. "Ask not what you can do for your country, but what free entitlements you can bleed from your country"

August 19, 2020, 06:26 PM	#29
JDBerg Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2015 Location: PA Posts: 1,835	You can’t argue with targets that have nice groups near center mass right where they should be. Some of us knew the Walther PPQ in .45 ACP was a seriously accurate piece and this just proves the point. Using quality ammo also makes a difference. A top shelf range report that anyone considering a .45 service pistol would have to give serious consideration to. Me and my Gen4 21 have our work cut out for us at the range this weekend! __________________ Words to Live By: Before You Pray - Believe; Before You Speak - Listen; Before You Spend - Earn; Before You Write - Think; Before You Quit - Try; Before You Die - Live

August 19, 2020, 06:28 PM	#30
TunnelRat Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 12,212	Walther PPQ 45 has landed...Range and pictorial review. I remember 5 years ago, like it was 5 years ago. Looks like Mystro hasn’t been around in 2 years or so. He always did nice reviews. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

August 19, 2020, 06:35 PM	#31
JDBerg Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2015 Location: PA Posts: 1,835	It’s still nice to see targets that don’t look like Swiss cheese even if they are vintage! __________________ Words to Live By: Before You Pray - Believe; Before You Speak - Listen; Before You Spend - Earn; Before You Write - Think; Before You Quit - Try; Before You Die - Live

August 19, 2020, 05:17 PM	#28
Bobgeorge Junior Member Join Date: August 19, 2020 Posts: 11	Old posts....but I just handgun. I have taken this gun to the range a few times and love how it feels and the accuracy. The trigger is excellent in that it seems to have a smooth pull. Anyone else have any feedback on this gun?

August 19, 2020, 07:21 PM	#32
Dan-O Senior Member Join Date: August 3, 2011 Location: Northern Colorado Posts: 969	On my short list

August 20, 2020, 04:51 PM	#33
Jagrbomb Member Join Date: December 29, 2015 Location: Texas Posts: 88	How is the recoil compared to that Sig 227 you have?

August 21, 2020, 08:30 AM	#35
Mystro Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2004 Location: Central Pa. Posts: 1,528	I am trying to get back on the forums more often now. With the current Covid state, I was called back to duty for various caliber ammunition developments and all kinds of tactical implementations. No excuse but I need to hang out more. Funny thing about the PPQ45. It has its own feel separate from all my other striker fire guns. It’s trigger pull and grip angle feels like you are pushing the bullet into the desired target. I have found that just about all my students that demo the PPQ over the years shoot it inherently accurate right from their first magazine. There is nothing to get use to other than the perceived lighter trigger break. I have to shoot everything but certain guns do stand out from the herd and the PPQ is one of them most fall in love with. (FYI..Photobucket screwed many of our threads pics from the last few years. I am working with my own server to restore the lost pictures. ) My PPQ’s (and most of my handguns) are wearing Speedsights. I worked with the company a few years back developing proper figments for particular brands and models of handguns. __________________ "I'm a good guy with a gun" What do I care if I give up some freedom or rights?....The Goverment will take care of me. This kind of thinking is now in the majority and it should concern you. "Ask not what you can do for your country, but what free entitlements you can bleed from your country" Last edited by Mystro; August 21, 2020 at 08:53 AM.

August 22, 2020, 08:48 AM	#37
Mystro Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2004 Location: Central Pa. Posts: 1,528	I love them both equally. How is that for no help??? No seriously both platforms do what they do exceptionally well. They are two different animals. The P227 is truly a combat handgun and feels like a Swiss watch. The down fall to all this is it’s weight. It’s heavy to carry but that goes with what it is. My P227 is a custom shop and then some type of gun so it is one of the smoothest DA/SA Sigs you will ever shoot. The PPQ45 is bone stock internally and doesn’t need anything. Honestly I believe you could (and should) own both of these guns as they compliment each other. My P227 is one of my bed side handguns because I like DA/SA guns for the bump in the night duties. It also wears a 800 lume light which it’s platform carries very well. Polymer guns are workhorses that I won’t cry if they take a hit on the side of the vehicle getting in and out. The Sig all metal frame and G10 grips might make me cringe only because I mentally baby them a bit more (not that they are not just as tough). I literally own about every hand gun that is carried or used by LE and various military. They are tools for me. My duty hand gun varies from a G32 to a USP Compact in 40 or 357Sig. They are tools and I don’t care if they get chucked across the parking lot in a struggle. I do occasionally carry the a P226/P227/P229 on duty but their extra weight over the G32 becomes apparent an the end of the day. Weight is really the biggest downside of non polymer platforms and sums up why I carry polymer guns 90% of the time. I have my duty holsters set up for mainly three platforms of guns. A G23,G32,G19,G30s. All of those can and do get carried on duty. My Sig rig holds my P229,P226,P227 size platforms. The only oddball rig I use is for my HK USP Compacts and I own them in every caliber (9,40,357Sig,45acp). These three duty rigs allow me to carry a plethora of handguns. I have a Sheriff Dept shooting the PPQ45 and I will strap it on when visiting them. I deal a lot with various levels of training within the LE departments. If they carry a G17, then I will showcase ammo or gear for the G17. The tactical guys that have a more open end line of gear is when the different calibers and more expensive platforms are appreciated. My biggest issue with the PPQ in general was proper LE duty holsters. I worked directly with Walther on this issue. Walther needed to understand was that LE Dept buy handguns based on a platform across the line. Glock being the most common and easily to accommodate and what most used. To get a LE Dept to switch to a PPQ, I had to sell the buyers for the Dept on the idea that they need to also buy all new holsters and in some case extra magazine pouches. This made the PPQ a tough sell even though it shoots so much smoother and oozed high quality. It almost always boils down to money in the end regarding platforms and calibers. __________________ "I'm a good guy with a gun" What do I care if I give up some freedom or rights?....The Goverment will take care of me. This kind of thinking is now in the majority and it should concern you. "Ask not what you can do for your country, but what free entitlements you can bleed from your country" Last edited by Mystro; August 22, 2020 at 09:16 AM.

August 22, 2020, 10:55 PM	#39
JDBerg Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2015 Location: PA Posts: 1,835	I’d heard that many LE agencies will only authorize use of double action striker service pistols, a.k.a the Glock striker design, where the striker is cocked by pulling the trigger. The PPQ striker is fully cocked when the action is cycled, thus in single action and ready to fire. When the trigger is pulled, the striker is released and fired. I’d be interested to learn which LE agencies either issue or authorize use of the Walther PPQ, and it would be interesting to hear about the LE track record of the gun. __________________ Words to Live By: Before You Pray - Believe; Before You Speak - Listen; Before You Spend - Earn; Before You Write - Think; Before You Quit - Try; Before You Die - Live

August 23, 2020, 08:52 AM	#40
ms6852 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2010 Location: Texas Posts: 1,394	Great review Mystro! If I did not know better I would say that you were working for Walther, but I know how great their guns are. I had always been a 1911 guy and never liked "Plastic" guns until I bought the PPQ in 9mm for my wife. Walther made me change my views and their guns are exceptionally made with their trigger pull being one of the lightest out of the box. Right know as I mentioned I carry 1911 and recently changed to a revolver 686+, but If I purchased another gun in 45 it would definitely be the Walther PPQ in 45 cal. __________________ ONLY TWO DEFINING FORCES HAVE GIVEN UP THEIR LIVES FOR YOU. ONE IS JESUS CHRIST FOR YOUR SOUL AND THE OTHER IS THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR YOUR FREEDOM.

August 24, 2020, 08:31 AM	#41
Mystro Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2004 Location: Central Pa. Posts: 1,528	As far as “inherently accurate?” It always comes down to the shooter and how neutral their shooting style is. Obviously no one is a machine when it comes to shooting but the quest for all marksmen is to develop a neutral shooting style. The more neutral and repetitive you can be, any handgun will perform well. One of the “crutches” I see from beginners to seasoned patrol officers is relying on one type of gun platform too much. A professional golfer will pick up a $50 set of garage sale clubs and still outperform the average golfer with a set of $3k Pings. A good shooting form can make up for a gritty trigger at defense distance shooting. Looking for the magic firearm to make up for bad shooting habits is what gun manufacturers count on and advertise in their “tacticool messages” and the new gun enthusiast eats this up as if this new and improved pistol suddenly will turn them into a tier one operator level of shooter. It goes without saying, the equipment isn’t why these guys are so good. They also train to shoot about every kind of firearm so that should tell you how much the operator behind the firearm is what really pushes the bullet to it’s mark. Bottom line: Way too much attention is given to the gun itself on the forums. I would rather the ammo get more consideration than the firearm because it has more of a influence in end results than the mid to upper end firearm. Any of the quality level handguns from Walther, Sig, Glock, HK, etc... and a good shooting style will be more than accurate enough. What firearm calls to you is totally a personal and subjective choice. Just make sure your not chasing a firearm to make up for personal shooting deficiencies. __________________ "I'm a good guy with a gun" What do I care if I give up some freedom or rights?....The Goverment will take care of me. This kind of thinking is now in the majority and it should concern you. "Ask not what you can do for your country, but what free entitlements you can bleed from your country" Last edited by Mystro; August 24, 2020 at 08:37 AM.

August 25, 2020, 11:15 AM	#42
me1911 Junior Member Join Date: November 23, 2008 Posts: 14	On guns with threaded barrels for suppressors can you remove the "suppressor nut" at the end of the barrel and still shoot the gun? Or, do you have to leave the nut screwed into the barrel? Last edited by me1911; August 26, 2020 at 07:29 AM.

August 26, 2020, 09:45 AM	#43
Mystro Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2004 Location: Central Pa. Posts: 1,528	It’s just a thread protector. You may shoot it unsupressed with or without the thread protector on the end of the barrel. __________________ "I'm a good guy with a gun" What do I care if I give up some freedom or rights?....The Goverment will take care of me. This kind of thinking is now in the majority and it should concern you. "Ask not what you can do for your country, but what free entitlements you can bleed from your country"

August 26, 2020, 10:27 AM	#44
me1911 Junior Member Join Date: November 23, 2008 Posts: 14	Thank you!

August 26, 2020, 02:55 PM	#45
Mystro Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2004 Location: Central Pa. Posts: 1,528	One more word of advise with these thread protectors. Never over tighten or use loctite. Just check it every so often it isn’t unscrewing. I have seen these get so stuck to the point they had to be destroyed to get them off. __________________ "I'm a good guy with a gun" What do I care if I give up some freedom or rights?....The Goverment will take care of me. This kind of thinking is now in the majority and it should concern you. "Ask not what you can do for your country, but what free entitlements you can bleed from your country"

August 27, 2020, 06:23 PM	#46
Mystro Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2004 Location: Central Pa. Posts: 1,528	I have been working with several LE agency with upgrading their duty ammo to the new HELO monolithic. I have worked with it and tested it when it was being developed. It wasn’t really going to be available to the consumer but I guess it was released in limited amounts?? Absolutely next level in terminal ballistics and barrier penetration. Departments and especially tactical entry teams were looking for a “one bullet does it all”. This is about as close as it gets. Some of the test videos and lab results. Zero deflection through a windshield and opens up when shot through about any barrier. https://youtu.be/pf08u41PMe0 I think It can only be purchased directly from the manufacturer and it looks like there isn’t any consumer restrictions. https://www.alchemistammunition.com/ __________________ "I'm a good guy with a gun" What do I care if I give up some freedom or rights?....The Goverment will take care of me. This kind of thinking is now in the majority and it should concern you. "Ask not what you can do for your country, but what free entitlements you can bleed from your country" Last edited by Mystro; August 27, 2020 at 06:40 PM.

August 28, 2020, 08:03 AM	#47
tomrkba Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2011 Posts: 751	Dangit. There are new PPQ 45’s on gunbroker.

August 28, 2020, 08:46 AM	#48
PolarFBear Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2015 Location: NE Tennessee, a "Free State" Posts: 478	I know I will offend many. But, looking over pictures in this "thread's" posts all I can see is HIGH POINT!

August 28, 2020, 08:54 AM	#49
Mystro Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2004 Location: Central Pa. Posts: 1,528	I get it. When I was a kid I use to think a Pontiac Fierro looked just like a Ferrari on our family road trips. __________________ "I'm a good guy with a gun" What do I care if I give up some freedom or rights?....The Goverment will take care of me. This kind of thinking is now in the majority and it should concern you. "Ask not what you can do for your country, but what free entitlements you can bleed from your country"

August 28, 2020, 09:46 AM	#50
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 3,626	That appears as the only 9mm ammunition available at times. At 185gr! Sounds like you are well respected. I look forward to seeing the proof of the HELO brand. Oops! thinking the Sesmic "Quake Maker" in 9mm. My bad. Yes. The 9mm is as accurate as the 45 PPQ. The P99 20rnd Walther magazine fits the M1 PPQ with just an added inch. So the PPQ can hold more than a CZ competition Shadow and has natural point and a superior trigger. I don't know. If something is immediately easier to hit the target (as you've reviewed above), I think we are assessing accuracy a bit wrong. Sure, all guns are easy and will shoot straight. But if one is just fundamentally easier by new shooters? That sounds better to me?