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Old January 24, 2018, 03:16 AM   #51
Satchmoeddie
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I don't use a WML anymore. Too much liability, and too much maintenance. It took a single CR123 cell, so I bought 4 rechargeable batteries, and a really good quality charger. I'd keep two on the charger, one in the light, and a spare in my pocket. The batteries would only last about a week. Once you turned the light or laser on and off, once, the battery would be dead in 2 days or less, so I kept a strict regimen of charging batteries & changing them out. I eventually said, "Screw this!" and went to some very reliable $5 Chinese made single AAA battery penlights that started life as bore inspection lights. I keep one clipped on my shirt all the time. It takes a AAA, which are sold anywhere & everywhere. They are just bright enough to identify someone in my postage stamp sized yard, and no brighter. From the "dirty tricks to not get you killed" file: I will carry an old Thyristor SLR film camera flash unit into the yard, along with a flashlight, and the Sig P228R, or a 66-2 in a shoulder holster. If I see someone, and can not ID them, hit him/her with that photo flash, but blink when you hit that button, then move, and use your flashlight. They won't regain their night vision for quite a while. In tactical terms, they are blind as a bat for at least 7 seconds, which is a whole lot of time to make decisions draw, move, shoot, yell, hit, kick, etc. You want the old thyristor & capacitor xenon photo flash that makes a popping noise when it fires, and you can feel the heat coming off of it. I got away from using the weapon mounted light, because I really don't want or need to go to jail for pointing my gun at someone just to use the light. I still use the old photo flash trick. I either have a very angry family member, maybe a drunk neighbor, or a terrified trespasser looking down the barrel of something, when he/she eventually stops seeing spots. I still have the Surefire somewhere. I got a good 10 years use out of it. It takes batteries. It makes the gun larger. It requires drawing & pointing the gun to use the light. Sometimes I will put the light back on the pistol when I travel cross country. I have a super bright Surefire flashlight in the vehicle, the penlights, and ?? guns. I usually plan to stop at a range somewhere along the way, and shoot. Xs 4 $s?
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Old January 24, 2018, 09:48 AM   #52
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Quote:
I don't use a WML anymore. Too much liability, and too much maintenance. It took a single CR123 cell, so I bought 4 rechargeable batteries, and a really good quality charger. I'd keep two on the charger, one in the light, and a spare in my pocket. The batteries would only last about a week. Once you turned the light or laser on and off, once, the battery would be dead in 2 days or less, so I kept a strict regimen of charging batteries & changing them out. I eventually said, "Screw this!"
Sounds like your issue was a combination of rechargables, and a poorly made light. Because I don't remember a major company that made a single CR123 weaponlight with a laser. There were some CR2 based ones, but none that used a single CR123 based.

Also I just checked my old X300s that I haven't used in a year, they are still shining very bright.

ETA: Though apparently that will be changing, Steamlight just announced a single CR123 powered light, and light/laser WML at SHOT show. Designed to be compact enough that it doesn't add bulk to a Glock 19 sized weapon.

Last edited by PPGMD; January 24, 2018 at 10:27 AM.
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Old January 24, 2018, 12:26 PM   #53
ShaulWolf
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I'll second what PPGMD said about it being a poorly made light. Rechargeable batteries aren't always the best either, and even newer lithium rechargeable batteries can be hit or miss depending on who makes them.

That being said, I don't know what model light was used, or what batteries, but I've seen Surefire X300's, X300U's, and TLR-1HL's take beatings and keep going like nothing happened. Battery run time is still between 1-2 hours, though that's still longer for what's expected for actual use. What I do is keep one set of batteries for actual duty/carry, another set as a spare, and one set for practice. You can pick up packs of batteries for relatively low prices at Lowes or Home Depot.
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Old January 24, 2018, 02:11 PM   #54
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I agree about the Surefires. Runtime isn't that long, but the battery will last a long time and be ready when you need it. I know a lot of guys who use them and they have the same experience. You get what you pay for in optics and lights.
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Old January 24, 2018, 02:53 PM   #55
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What ive read so far is the naysayers of WML’s, who by their own admision have never received ANY training in the PROPER use of one, continue to espouse that the improper use of one is hazardous.

I agree if used wrong, there are downsides. BUT, with proper techniques and tactics a WML offers a serious advantage to the trained user. If you augment the WML with a handheld and understand when/how to use each, its pretty impressive when on the receiving end of that lightshow.

I find the comment about the light manufactures offering training only to sell lights absolutly absurd. Smith and Wesson has had a shooting academy for years, Sig has the same (I've been to both). Just because they make guns, doesn't mean they cant teach shooting. What an asinine argument.

While the CCW/HD user may not have as much of a need as a LEO for a WML, to say its useless or detrimental is short sighted and uninformed.
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Old January 24, 2018, 03:09 PM   #56
Bill DeShivs
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What is asinine is to think that S&W or SIG having shooting schools is not done to further gun sales. Maybe not directly, but it's certainly good PR-as is Surefire's training.

I didn't say WML are useless, but I do feel they are impractical for most civilian uses. Having a floor jack in your trunk is not useless, but it sure not as practical as a regular jack.

I am amused at people thinking they NEED a light/laser/radar/guidance system on their guns with night sights and camo paint jobs. Learn to shoot.
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Old January 24, 2018, 03:29 PM   #57
shafter
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Sig Sauer has a reputable shooting school staffed by instructors who have experience in elite military and law enforcement organizations. There is a ton of real world experience there. There is no doubt that this is a money maker for Sig, but that doesn't change the fact that their instructors know their business.

Quote:
I am amused at people thinking they NEED a light/laser/radar/guidance system on their guns with night sights and camo paint jobs. Learn to shoot.
One could say the same thing about firearms themselves and argue that you don't NEED an AR15 or a Glock. Learn to shoot. When my life is on the line I want the best technology and tactics available.
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Old January 24, 2018, 04:01 PM   #58
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The training schools at companies like there to help sales, MIL/LE users require that they receive training (armorer, and transition training) with any new contract. These schools are an outgrowth of that requirement. SIG is unique that they grew it out to a general purpose training academy.

Surefire's school came with a desire to get proven reliable techniques out to their users. And in actuality you spend a vast majority of your time learning is spent on handheld lights, and general light schools. Only a fraction of the time is for weapon light specific techniques. And they even teach techniques specific for non-Surefire products like the older D cell lights, because they know that some agencies still require the use of those lights.
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Old January 30, 2018, 03:09 AM   #59
Jeff22
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People have the most amazing excuses for not getting formal training . . . who cares if S&W Academy or the Sig Academy has selling their guns as part of their mission? I've attended classes from both organizations in the past, and they provided quality training. That's the only thing that matters.

I've attended training live fire to accustom the user to operating a weapon mounted light and laser, and I've gone to a few classes that were scenario based involving using WMLs in building searches.

As other people have noted, when you have a WML on a handgun you have to be careful where your muzzle is pointed -- searching is easier with a handheld light and shooting is easier with a WML.

When operating in a domestic defensive or law enforcement capacity having proper target identification is critical, so it's important to have a white light available to identify a threat. Engaging a burglar in your house is not exactly like house-to-house fighting in Mosul . . . .

One class I went to was a morning doing live fire on the range in low light with flashlights and WMLs and then in the afternoon we did some scenarios. They had a big variety of types of lights to try out.

Having a strobe feature on your light was popular for a while, the theory being the strobe would disorient your adversary when you shined the light in his eyes. That is true to some degree, but the strobe will also disorient YOU unless you've practiced with it a lot.
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Old February 2, 2018, 01:05 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James K View Post
...a lot of blather by teenage cop wannabes...
Projection?

Let's be polite.
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