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Old February 19, 2018, 12:21 PM   #51
jamaica
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Quote cervri: Start off by getting yourself a couple of reloading manuals.

Yes, start here and read the manuals. I like the Lyman manual. The first 120 pages or so tell all about how to reload and be safe doing it. Then comes the loads for the different cartridges. Most of the data shows the load the ops found best for the cartridge and powder in question. Get the book, look through the data, then go buy components. Remember, start low and work up. Have fun!
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Old February 20, 2018, 11:55 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmw1954 View Post
SkipperT, just looked thru my notes and data and yes from the looks of things the LRN are loaded short with a much reduced powder charge. The reason I mentioned anything is because I an use to seating the 115gr Berry's plated bullet out at 1.130" to 1.140" with both the HP-38 and the Ramshot powders.

Again good luck, have fun and post back your results! I know I'll be waiting to hear from you.
I hope no one minds me jumping in on this. I, too, am a new re-loader. I'd been collecting spent brass for nearly my entire shooting life, with the aim of one day loading my own. This thread, along with responses, is a near duplicate of my scenario.
My dear wife gifted me with a Hornady Lock-n-Load Class kit for Christmas, and I've been adding to it, while preparing brass for that eventual reload. Of course I've made a few mistakes already, but that's the joy of learning something from scratch.

Here's where I am to date, and why I need help.

Lee 4-die 9mm set
Berry 115gn 9mm Copper Plated round nose
Hodgdon HP-38 powder
Cleaned Fiocchi Italian brass (G.F.L. stamp) with Franklin Arsenal Rotary Tumbler
Berretta 92FS 9mm

Load data:
Set 1: 4.2 gn HP-38, COL 1.125", CCI 550 magnum primer (first mistake- CCI 550 vs 500 which is why I loaded 4.2 gn), 2nd mistake - loaded 100 rounds

Set 2: 4.4 gn HP-38, COL 1.125", WIN WPL primer - attempt to correct Set 1, then
repaeated 2nd mistake - loaded 100 rounds

Set 3: 4.6 gn HP-38, COL 1.1", WIN WPL primer - loaded 10 rounds

Used a combination of Hodgdon Reloading Center Data and Hornady Cartrodge Loading Handbook for powder and COL ideas. WIN321 data used where HP-38 was not listed.

Shooting Experience:
Set 1: 100% failure to eject/load next round
Set 2: 100% failure to eject/load next round
Set 3: (which was first round fired) 70% failure to eject/load next round

Test comparison:
15 rounds Fiocchi American new 115 gn FMJ RN
93.3% successful recycle, eject, new round loaded - no stovepipe, one round caught on feedramp.

In general, Set 1, Set 2, and Test comparison rounds fired true, pretty close to where I pointed (I am not a crack shot).

Set 3 - highest charge with deepest bullet seating, rounds fired tight group, but all pulled left of center.

This is my first post, so I apologize for the length and any lack of clarity.

Any ideas why my reloaded rounds failed to recycle? On a positive note, I recovered every round fired, since they were all manually ejected.
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Old February 20, 2018, 12:13 PM   #53
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markr6754,

I would suggest here would be a good starting point:
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/59...auge-9mm-luger

You're asking a lot of a handgun cartridge fired thru a pistol. Has to feed cleanly out of the magazine, has to come out at the proper angle, has to hit the feed ramp properly, and has to be a good fit for the chamber. The above tool will at least insure that the cartridge is a good fit for your chamber. Hope that helps.

Don
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Old February 20, 2018, 12:51 PM   #54
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markr6754, welcome to the group.

Not to be mean but it really might be best to start a new topic as your questions are quite specific. It would facilitate more concentrated answers to you questions w/o getting lost in this topic.

From what you have posted as your load data it mimics mine almost to a tee. Only real difference being the primer used and the brass headstamp. The firearm I am using is also very similar in that I am using a Taurus PT92C as one of my test guns.

With my starting loads with HP-38 at 4.2 gr. All would feed an eject with the only failure being that it would not lock the slide back on the last round.

I do not believe the problem lays with your reloads but more with your gun seeing as you are also having failures with factory loaded rounds.
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Old February 20, 2018, 08:02 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by USSR View Post
markr6754,

I would suggest here would be a good starting point:
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/59...auge-9mm-luger

You're asking a lot of a handgun cartridge fired thru a pistol. Has to feed cleanly out of the magazine, has to come out at the proper angle, has to hit the feed ramp properly, and has to be a good fit for the chamber. The above tool will at least insure that the cartridge is a good fit for your chamber. Hope that helps.

Don
USSR, appreciate your feedback. I had a similar thought in mind. Prior to firing anything I did drop a loaded round down into my barrel to check for fit and ease of entry/exit. In preparation, I have a part on order...not the specific gauge you posted, but a Lyman Multi-Caliber Handgun block since I intend to reload 9, 45ACP, and 357/38 Special.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/46...colt-long-colt

Is the specific cartridge gauge a better tool to use than the multi-caliber block? At his point I'm not opposed to adding additional tools if they'll give me a greater control over my loads.

Thanks again for the feedback.
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Old February 20, 2018, 08:11 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmw1954 View Post
markr6754, welcome to the group.

Not to be mean but it really might be best to start a new topic as your questions are quite specific. It would facilitate more concentrated answers to you questions w/o getting lost in this topic.

From what you have posted as your load data it mimics mine almost to a tee. Only real difference being the primer used and the brass headstamp. The firearm I am using is also very similar in that I am using a Taurus PT92C as one of my test guns.

With my starting loads with HP-38 at 4.2 gr. All would feed an eject with the only failure being that it would not lock the slide back on the last round.

I do not believe the problem lays with your reloads but more with your gun seeing as you are also having failures with factory loaded rounds.
kmw1954,

I don't consider it mean at all. I'm new to the forum, so whatever you seniors feel are best practices, I'm ready to follow them. I gave a thought to a new thread, and failed to follow that original thought. Nonetheless, you've provided the best answer...your loads were successful with the same powder, charge, bullet, and gun type. I'm familiar with the Taurus, and since Brazil is using the same plant that used to manufacture the 92FS, I'm confident that your experience serves as a validation that I need to look closer at my specific firearm for answers. I'll take my problem to a new thread.

Thanks for your kind response. Super helpful.
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Old February 20, 2018, 08:21 PM   #57
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Quote:
Is the specific cartridge gauge a better tool to use than the multi-caliber block?
A gauge is a gauge is a gauge. One is as good as another. I use either Lyman or L.E. Wilson.

Don
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Old February 20, 2018, 08:27 PM   #58
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Excellent. Thanks. I'm so new at this I don't know up from down. Now I know a gauge is a gauge is a gauge...I just need mine to be delivered.
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Old February 26, 2018, 07:21 AM   #59
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Finally made it to the range.
Shot 90 rounds and here is what I did:
Used a Glock 17 and the SW Shield. 9mm

Berry's copper plated 115 gn RN
Titegroup powder;
COL 1.104
10 rnds, 3.9 gn
1 squib
9 rnds down range, easy recoil, brass only flew 3 ft.
Functioned ok in each firearm.

10 rnds, 4.0 gn
Good function still good recoil, all 10 down range.

10 rnds, 4.1 gn
Felt a bit more recoil, all 10 down range and the brass has moved out to about 8 feet.
More like a factory recoil, 2nd shot a little harder to acquire.

10 rnds, 4.2 gn
Felt like a standard factory round, recoil like the same, all 10 rounds down range, no issue.
Overall both firearms worked like they should preferred the 4.0 load, soft, good function and easy 2nd shot acquisition.

Then I loaded 50 rounds:
SNS Castings 115 gr polymer coated lead.
4.3 gn, listed as min for Winchester 231 powder.
I had 1 squib in this group as well.
Over all this seemed liked a factory load at the minimum load.
Snappy recoil, good function and Worked in both firearms.
If I use this again I may drop down to 4.1 gn and test that load for feel and function.

Overall my first rounds fired that I made,,, worked very well.
Have to keep an eye on the process and make sure every casing gets a powder charge!
I did buy a small LED reading light and mounted to the press,, can see so much better now!!

Time to re-fill the brass!!! LOL
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Old February 26, 2018, 07:52 AM   #60
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SkipperT, nice report. Question though. Please explain your 2 squibs? Did these fire and stick in the barrel or were they Failure to fires?

I've been loading the 115gr Berry's RN with HP-38/Win231 at 4.2gr to a length of 1.130" and they have worked very well.
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Old February 26, 2018, 08:51 AM   #61
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Like most have said-------#1 Get a manual or 2 or 3
#2--- READ AND UNDERSTAND Rule #1

Now, as to the squib rounds--usually to a reloader that means the primer ignited and there was either no powder or an insufficient amount or somehow inactivated powder that propelled the bullet either just out of the case or some distance down the barrel but not out of the barrel which would necessitate bringing out the brass rod to tap the projectile out.
Did you really mean that the primer strike was either insufficiently struck by the firing pin or somehow did not receive enough energy to detonate? (Maybe high primer or not seated fully?)

Again, if you had problems with factory loaded ammo I too would look more closely at the weapon, ie firing spring, lock up or whatever. Not that I would loan you one of my guns to test out your reloads but do you have another in the same caliber to swap with and try out the reloads(and factory stuff)?
Good luck and let us know how things work out.

Gary
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Old February 26, 2018, 09:54 AM   #62
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Yeah, we need to know what you mean by a "squib."

Sounds you're moving in the right direction, though.

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Old February 26, 2018, 09:50 PM   #63
SkipperT
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Well, by Squib, I mean a load that went click when I pulled the trigger. The projectile made it about an inch down the barrel. The primer was activated but I have to assume that with no bang or poof, it was a cartridge with no powder.
I did break down and bought a book reading light to better see into the casing.
I just loaded 45 more tonight I can see the powder in the casing so much better and was very pleased.
Definitely not the firearm as I used three on Sunday and these squibs happened in 2 of the three.
As to the manuals, I have three of these as well and have been reading, reading and you guessed it, more reading.
Outside of the squibs everything else went very well. I could feel, and hear each powder load and differences between them. I could also see where the brass landed for each loan.
Have to admit I learned a lot Sunday while shooting. I also learned a great deal about the way the bullet travels down the barrel when I popped out the squibs.
I have never hand a malfunction before, even as this was my fault I did learn a great deal and even with my mistakes, I cannot call this a fail due to learning new things.
Yes I had a couple of lemons, but ended up with a nice glass of lemonade! LOL
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Old February 26, 2018, 10:08 PM   #64
SkipperT
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I need to add this information, on the 50 rounds of SNS Castings, 115 gn poly coated lead I did add to the firearms a Ruger SR9C.
This functioned very well in the test.
As to the squibs, I each in the Glock 17 and SW Shield.
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Old February 26, 2018, 11:20 PM   #65
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Books are great but sometimes it's hard to ask a book a question, sometimes ya just have to ask a human.
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Old February 27, 2018, 12:54 PM   #66
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Okay, that makes sense. When I was new, the thing most emphasized in all of the three books I read (no real internet back then) was check your powder charges before seating the bullets.

Since then, I've always mounted a shop light directly over the loading bench and as a habit, I set up all of my charged casings in a loading block so I can easily and quickly scan them all. It's usually pretty obvious if any are excessively high or missing a charge though it can be a bit tricky to see into some bottle neck casings.

That's when I'm loading on a single stage. On the auto-indexing press, all I have is a charge checking die and since I'm still new at the progressive press, I'm still working on the habit of checking each charge one at a time. Frankly, it really scares the crap out of me that I might forget to check. So, I go slow and at EVERY pull of the handle, it's just one more thing I check on.

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Old February 27, 2018, 02:50 PM   #67
SkipperT
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The Lee Classic press has four dies that rotate, so it still only has one case in at a time. it takes 4 pulls of the handle to make a single full cartridge.
Since I got the light I discovered that when I raise the handle, which lowers the ram arm and the dies rotate at the top, it jiggles the case and makes the powder jump a bit. This is now my clue as to the depth of the powder for a given charge (this is a visual only) and confirms there is actually powder in the casing.
I also discovered that being slower and more methodical is definitely the way to go.
At first I got in a hurry as the press will make quite a few rounds in a short period of time. Slowing down, reminding myself of the basics and the process actually makes me more comfortable and feels like I have better control. I will take this over speed any day.
I did find that placing the casing in the shell holder, pulling the handle to re-size and de-cap and putting the new primer in place, then lifting the handle to seat the primer is in itself a busy task. Then when I pulled the handle down again, I was trying to find the bullet with both my eyes and my hands, which ultimately made me take my eyes off the casing and thus I missed the powder charge. These are two critical steps.
Now once I see the powder and load the bullet, I make up a bit of time while seating and crimping the bullet in place as this just requires the operation of the handle.
Every 5th cartridge now I check the powder load with a scale and check the COL when done.
Hopefully these actions will eliminate the rascally squib load!!
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Old February 27, 2018, 03:11 PM   #68
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When I use my Lee Turret press before placing a bullet onto a case I look into each and every case to check that there is powder present. It's actually quite easy when compared to looking into each case on my Pro1000 progressive press.

Still I will not place a bullet w/o looking into the case to verify that there is powder. Of course it adds time to the process but so what.

I have had one squib and that was last fall after I had just started wet tumbling my brass. That scared the bejeesus out of both my wife and I as she was shooting with me. In this case the fault was with wet powder. I have since changed my routine.
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Old February 27, 2018, 05:26 PM   #69
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Kmw1954 Sounds like we are on the same page.
That little one LED light is prefect for seeing the powder in the casing.
I use the Franklin tumbler or vibrator with crushed walnut shells and really like the way the brass comes out, I also have been using the NU Finish car polish and they come out all shiny!!

Last night I loaded 45 rounds with the Winchester 231, lowered the powder to 4.1 instead of the listed minimum of 4.3 gns. I shot them today and the recoil management is great. I may bump it back up 4.2 for the IPSC shooting, haven't decided on that yet, but thinking about it.
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