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Old Today, 10:46 PM   #126
5whiskey
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Join Date: October 23, 2005
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JohnKSa that is as good an explanation of how slight differences in split times can make a real difference in a gunfighft as I've seen. As seen here, many dismiss those differences as unimportant. I don't
Ah, they can make a difference... Possibly. I think the .2 split time is realistic. I can personally do a little better most days, but I know I'm better than the average shooter and probably do at least par for TFL standards. I do not pull .12 split times. I do only count speed as an acco pice fo accuracy. If i cant hit a 8" target at 10 yards 9 of 10 times, consistently, that speed doesnt count. But let's take 14 accurate hits (using his later example of .2 second splits with 9mm vs .24 with .45) of 9mm vs 11 of .45 (assuming capacity isn't an issue). Let's use that for statistical significance. You are shot 14 times with 9mm. Is that any worse or better than with 11 .45acp and its larger wound channel? There's no "scientific proof" way to answer that, BTW. And, fwiw, I'm not as much of a defender of the "almighty" .45, but I also don't worship at the 9mm alter. Both serve you well, and I think .45 DOES have more wounding potential than 9mm. Can I prove it with science? No. No more than you can prove 14 rounds of 9mm is more deadly than 11 rounds of .45.

So the point is caliber wars are pretty stupid. The "soft recoiling" of 9mm is overrated. Im aware 9mm will be faster, but is it significantly faster? Even 9mm worshipers admit there is at least a fair chance that the .45 wound channel will be larger, and that it hits with more momentum, but scientifically we can't prove that its a significant difference. I personally believe there are applications for the larger caliber. I like .45 more in the winter. Why? Well, heavy winter clothing often disrupts the expansion (at least somewhat) of even modern projectiles and I believe starting diameter counts in this case. Coincidentally, its also easier to conceal larger firearms chambered in .45 in heavy winter clothing.

Further I believe the momentum of 230 grains vs 124 grains (with similar k/e) is significant. For an extreme demonstration compare .243 winchester vs 45-70. 243 has MORE k/e, but no one argues that it has more wounding ability than 45-70. The same people who argue that there is no significant difference between 9mm and 45 will tell you .243 is not suitable to elk hunt, but 45-70 will put them down as quick as anything. Let's take .30-06 and 45-70. Most folks will argue that 45-70 has more wounding capacity as a hunting round, despite 30-06's significantly greater k/e. But supposedly momentum matters for hunting cartridgex, but doesn't matter in pistol calibers. It does. Maybe not on the same scale, but it does.

So is .04 seconds less time between shots more important than more momentum and a larger starting diameter? I don't think so. Is capacity and size of platform important? YES! This is the best argument for 9mm, and is personally why I carry a 9mm most of them time. Especially in summer. Where I civilian CCw, I wouldn't care about 10 rounds capacity vs 7, or 15 vs 10. I'm LEO, and capacity is very important to me as Im expected to not just survive, but confront and overcome. I don't have a dog in this fight. In fact, I often wind up defending the caliber I choose NOT to carry most of the time because of capacity when carrying plain clothes and concealing. When carrying service size, I am strangely comfortable with 45 despite the lower capacity and .04 second slower split times.

Last edited by 5whiskey; Today at 11:14 PM.
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Old Today, 10:59 PM   #127
5whiskey
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I do not measure my split times. I consider it a waste of time
So using an actual empirical measurement is not useful, but I am to trust your word that 9mm is faster on follow ups based on your careful observations? I've been on a good number of firing lines myself as both student and instructor. Some individuals will be better served by 9mm as .45 recoil is not easy for them to control and they won't take the time or effort to become proficient. For others, proficient shooting comes much more naturally or they are enthused enough to devote the time to become quite proficient. A proficient shooter will notice a strikingly small difference in time between follow up shots between 9mm and 45, should they feel it isnt a waste of time to measure it.
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