Some HD shotgun observations.... - Page 2

Big Bunny · November 29, 1999, 08:36 PM

Addendum...Dave your hated pistol-grip is actually an inseparable part of my wooden 12ga stock and cannot be taken off...except by the the use of a wood saw!

Perhaps you can fantasise over that sometime in your quieter moments...

Dave McC · November 30, 1999, 07:20 AM

Actually, in my quieter moments I'd rather fantasize about Shania Twain, or being Showermeister for the Swedish Bikini Team, Bunny.

As for PGs on full stocks, the shooting I've done with them has shown no clear cut advantage either way.If it works for you...

Big Bunny · November 30, 1999, 05:48 PM

Yes, Dave it does, but only for a specific short barrelled pumpie for a specific purpose of ultra-short range,slug and car-gun.
I had a chat with a member of the local TRTeam(police) and he agreed with me over PG(fixed) 12GA stocks for their house-clearing work, but said they have now to restock theirs to standard, as senior police decree it looks too "fierce and agressive" on TV !

Politically Correct rules OK!

So we will agree to differ, thats what makes a forum like FL so different and enjoyable.

(Incidentially my nom-de-plume comes from OZ slang, a "bunny" is one who gets the blame or 'carrys the can' for someone else(mug, dupe, fool). Like the infamous Australian Federal "buy-back" firearms confiscations we as firearms owners have had after the Tas Pt Arthur Massacre(35 tourists dead).

Self flagellation?
Maybe.
You guessed it, Dave, I had all my firearms registered and legal, I trusted the/our Governments and suffered badly.......... Never again....)

------------------
***Big Bunny***

Dave McC · December 1, 1999, 06:00 AM

Sorry to hear that, BB. I quit trusting my govt in South East Asia,1970.

As for police weapons looking too nasty. I just don''t see it.But then, I'm no politician,thank God....

Dave McC · January 30, 2000, 02:24 PM

Bringing this back up for the new folks....

parabellum · February 4, 2000, 01:25 AM

Good to see this thread, Dave McC. I had a discussion over load selection with a know-it-all who kept saying he was an LEO. Turns out the guy's been on the job about six months. Kept insisting that the ONLY effective load for the 12 gauge scattergun was OO buck or larger, As if there was some magical line there. OO buck--great. O buck--just won't cut it. I finally figured out I was wasting my time since all he could do was repeat what he'd been told. Personally, I like #1 buck in a standard, unplated 16 pellet load for my Benelli. I figure that's the best compromise, not to mention my neighbors are some distance away should pellets go through a window and down the street.

BigT · February 4, 2000, 02:23 AM

Guys, you didn't mention the one breath mint that makes the most sense, Lifesavers! Now you just have to decide which flavor.
How about opinions on ammo brands? Are most good quality so you only have to worry about pattern? Or are there some poor quality it's best to just avoid? I'm looking at Federal Tactical, S&B, Win. I'm new to shotguns and am trying to get up to speed using everyone's experience. Thanks, T

Dave McC · February 4, 2000, 07:16 AM

Thanks, guys.

As for ammo, I know of no US made bad stuff, as far as reliability goes. Each shotgun is a law unto itself as to what works best in it for patterning. Take two shotguns with consecutive serial numbers off the assembly line and test them, chances are each one "Likes" a different load.

NOTE:
While lower recoil loads like trap loads are a valuable part of any training session, no session's complete w/o shooting some duty loads,whatever they are. Rarely, there's an incompatability that should be discovered in practice and rectified, not in the midst of an AS scenario.

I use 00,simply because it was my duty load, its effectiveness is legendary and there's a lot of it still laying around the Casa. However, the first instructor school I was sent to was manned by some FBI types, and they did fine work in the demos with #4 buck,fine work indeed.

We tested some #1,for possible use in the towers,and liked it for the slightly thicker pattern,but bureaucratic inertia triumphed and the system stuck to 00.

And, there's something to be said for the old mix loading. In a pump, that means the first one or two up are smaller pellets, like #4-8 shot, with some heavier loads behind for better penetration through say, your refrigerator. There's both pros and cons, so think it over.

Pros, lesser penetration of walls and a lower chance of injury to a non combatant, family member,neighbor,etc.Lower risk of serious damage from a ricochet,too. This last is mayhap more theoretical than real, I've heard of few ricochet injuries in real AS scenarios.

Cons,less effectiveness at longer ranges, if the scenario moves outside, or you live in one BIG house.Also, there's skip shooting techniques that work best with buck, tho they tend to be special case apps.

November 29, 1999, 08:36 PM	#26
Big Bunny Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 1999 Location: New South Wales - Australia Posts: 605	Addendum...Dave your hated pistol-grip is actually an inseparable part of my wooden 12ga stock and cannot be taken off...except by the the use of a wood saw! Perhaps you can fantasise over that sometime in your quieter moments...

November 30, 1999, 07:20 AM	#27
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Actually, in my quieter moments I'd rather fantasize about Shania Twain, or being Showermeister for the Swedish Bikini Team, Bunny. As for PGs on full stocks, the shooting I've done with them has shown no clear cut advantage either way.If it works for you...

November 30, 1999, 05:48 PM	#28
Big Bunny Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 1999 Location: New South Wales - Australia Posts: 605	Yes, Dave it does, but only for a specific short barrelled pumpie for a specific purpose of ultra-short range,slug and car-gun. I had a chat with a member of the local TRTeam(police) and he agreed with me over PG(fixed) 12GA stocks for their house-clearing work, but said they have now to restock theirs to standard, as senior police decree it looks too "fierce and agressive" on TV ! Politically Correct rules OK! So we will agree to differ, thats what makes a forum like FL so different and enjoyable. (Incidentially my nom-de-plume comes from OZ slang, a "bunny" is one who gets the blame or 'carrys the can' for someone else(mug, dupe, fool). Like the infamous Australian Federal "buy-back" firearms confiscations we as firearms owners have had after the Tas Pt Arthur Massacre(35 tourists dead). Self flagellation? Maybe. You guessed it, Dave, I had all my firearms registered and legal, I trusted the/our Governments and suffered badly.......... Never again....) ------------------ *Big Bunny*

December 1, 1999, 06:00 AM	#29
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Sorry to hear that, BB. I quit trusting my govt in South East Asia,1970. As for police weapons looking too nasty. I just don''t see it.But then, I'm no politician,thank God....

January 30, 2000, 02:24 PM	#30
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Bringing this back up for the new folks....

February 4, 2000, 01:25 AM	#31
parabellum Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 1999 Location: Atlanta, Ga. Posts: 251	Good to see this thread, Dave McC. I had a discussion over load selection with a know-it-all who kept saying he was an LEO. Turns out the guy's been on the job about six months. Kept insisting that the ONLY effective load for the 12 gauge scattergun was OO buck or larger, As if there was some magical line there. OO buck--great. O buck--just won't cut it. I finally figured out I was wasting my time since all he could do was repeat what he'd been told. Personally, I like #1 buck in a standard, unplated 16 pellet load for my Benelli. I figure that's the best compromise, not to mention my neighbors are some distance away should pellets go through a window and down the street.

February 4, 2000, 02:23 AM	#32
BigT Member Join Date: January 14, 2000 Posts: 18	Guys, you didn't mention the one breath mint that makes the most sense, Lifesavers! Now you just have to decide which flavor. How about opinions on ammo brands? Are most good quality so you only have to worry about pattern? Or are there some poor quality it's best to just avoid? I'm looking at Federal Tactical, S&B, Win. I'm new to shotguns and am trying to get up to speed using everyone's experience. Thanks, T

February 4, 2000, 07:16 AM	#33
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Thanks, guys. As for ammo, I know of no US made bad stuff, as far as reliability goes. Each shotgun is a law unto itself as to what works best in it for patterning. Take two shotguns with consecutive serial numbers off the assembly line and test them, chances are each one "Likes" a different load. NOTE: While lower recoil loads like trap loads are a valuable part of any training session, no session's complete w/o shooting some duty loads,whatever they are. Rarely, there's an incompatability that should be discovered in practice and rectified, not in the midst of an AS scenario. I use 00,simply because it was my duty load, its effectiveness is legendary and there's a lot of it still laying around the Casa. However, the first instructor school I was sent to was manned by some FBI types, and they did fine work in the demos with #4 buck,fine work indeed. We tested some #1,for possible use in the towers,and liked it for the slightly thicker pattern,but bureaucratic inertia triumphed and the system stuck to 00. And, there's something to be said for the old mix loading. In a pump, that means the first one or two up are smaller pellets, like #4-8 shot, with some heavier loads behind for better penetration through say, your refrigerator. There's both pros and cons, so think it over. Pros, lesser penetration of walls and a lower chance of injury to a non combatant, family member,neighbor,etc.Lower risk of serious damage from a ricochet,too. This last is mayhap more theoretical than real, I've heard of few ricochet injuries in real AS scenarios. Cons,less effectiveness at longer ranges, if the scenario moves outside, or you live in one BIG house.Also, there's skip shooting techniques that work best with buck, tho they tend to be special case apps.