IMR 4227 & 8x57 Mauser

Sevens · August 13, 2007, 01:42 PM

Looking for some recipes for the Mauser... I have on hand some H335 and also some H4198, but I still have a can of IMR 4227 that I don't use for anything else that I'd like to get some use out of. Anyone have some recipes for the 8mm Mauser to share? The Hodgdon/IMR site lists some recipes with the H335, but none for the other two powders.

If you load this cartridge but don't use any of my powders, I'd still like to hear what powder you do like and why. I have a box of 175 grain pointed soft points that I'm trying. This is a new caliber to my reloading bench, and I'm starting with brand new Winchester commercial brass.

Thanks!

Trapper L · August 13, 2007, 02:13 PM

The only thing I see of yours that you can use the IMR4227 in is your 223. The following data is from Steves Pages:

40 gr bullet start 20.0grs- 22.0 grs max
45 and 50 gr bullet start 16.5grs- 17.5 grs max
55 gr bullets start 16.0grs -17.0 grs max

He does not list velocity but I wouldn't expect much. It should make for an extremely low recoil/noise load though. The IMR 4227 powder is best suited for cases like the 218B, 25-20, 221 FB, and such as it is too fast for mid to large cases but too slow for most pistols. I have used it in 44 mag cases but you didn't list one of those.

Here's some other data for you to look at:
http://www.handloads.org/loaddata/de...Powder&Source=

Scott · August 13, 2007, 02:22 PM

I don't know if it will help, but as a point of reference, I use 20 grains of 4227 w/ a 150 grain flat based bullet as (an accurate) low power gallery load in my 30-06. Works very well.
Scott

UniversalFrost · August 13, 2007, 03:12 PM

IMR 4895 will be the sure ticket for you! I use several different loads depending on which of my mausers I am shooting (the yugos are very picky, but the german 98's shoot anything and do it well). Plus I like IMR 4895 for 308,243 and 223 loads and can be loaded and perform very well across the board for a lot of calibers.

FatWhiteMan · August 13, 2007, 08:51 PM

IMR4064 is a good choice. I load both Hornady 150 and 170 RN with IMR4064. My load is far from max but I've found that the Winchester brass shows a lot more bulge and bright ring at the head while the Remington does not with the exact same load. I'll admit I have not done a lot with this caliber in recent years. Perhaps I'll get back to it.

crowbeaner · August 13, 2007, 09:11 PM

The last 8mm ammo I put together used the Speer 150 SP and 54.0 of H414 in new WW brass., CCI 200 primer. We shot them in a restocked Gew 98 and all shots were under 2" at 100 off the bench with open sights. I was impressed with the performance and told my friend to put a scope on it. Unfortunately he moved away and we were no longer able to work with the gun again. You might want to try the 170 gr. for deer and/or bear; they might shoot better than the 150s. Hope this helps. Enjoy. CB

**44 AMP** · August 13, 2007, 10:49 PM

Is THE powder for milsurp rifles. Best all around performance balance between velocity, pressure, and loading density.

Other medium powders can give very good results as well, basically anything with a faster burn rate than IMR 4350 will give better results than powders that slow, or slower.

I don't have a manual handly, but 4227 is, I think, too fast to get top velocities before hitting the pressure limits. Might be ok for a reduced load though.

Sevens · August 13, 2007, 10:57 PM

Good info-- much appreciated, folks! For the curious, the IMR 4227 that I do have on hand was used sparingly back when I was loading the .30 M1 Carbine. I sold the rifle (it was a Universal, not Govt Issue) as it turned out to be nothing more than a very loud plinker.

I probably will end up using that 4227 on .44 Mag loads... when I get around to finding a good, used .44 mag barrel for my Contender.

KEN K · August 16, 2007, 03:25 PM

I loaded my Mauser with 175 gr. Sierra Pro-Hunter in new brass with IMR 3031 40-44gr. I used40gr. and it shot well, drops a whitetail in it's tracks with no problem. I agree with trapper the 4227 is to fast I have some that I use to load in 357 mag. but don't use it in my rifle loads. I was told by an IMR rep. on the phone that they no-longer rec amend it for rifle loads. Load guides will take you up to 37,000 pres. but many articles say that 8mm Mauser made for the .323 bullet will handle up to 50,000 pres. make sure what you have and load accordingly.

Lesmess · November 7, 2007, 04:45 PM

Lyman Reloading Handbook 45th Addition Copyright 1970 lists the following for IMR 4227:

168 Grain Cast (w/gas check)

Powder Sug. Starting Grains Velocity FPS Max Grains Velocity FPS
IMR4227 20.0 1658 26.0 2040

rr2241tx · November 8, 2007, 06:26 PM

Sevens, H4895 is a very good powder for this cartridge. If the 150s don't work with your sights, try Remington 185 PSPCL which are available for relatively cheap and are pretty close to the 196/197 standard military load. If you luck into some 200gr being clearanced, they will run even closer to the sights, usually.

BigJakeJ1s · November 8, 2007, 11:03 PM

Nosler's site now has reloading data for 180 BT & 200 PT/AB in 8x57:

Nosler Ballistics Room

Andy

August 13, 2007, 01:42 PM	#1
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	IMR 4227 & 8x57 Mauser Looking for some recipes for the Mauser... I have on hand some H335 and also some H4198, but I still have a can of IMR 4227 that I don't use for anything else that I'd like to get some use out of. Anyone have some recipes for the 8mm Mauser to share? The Hodgdon/IMR site lists some recipes with the H335, but none for the other two powders. If you load this cartridge but don't use any of my powders, I'd still like to hear what powder you do like and why. I have a box of 175 grain pointed soft points that I'm trying. This is a new caliber to my reloading bench, and I'm starting with brand new Winchester commercial brass. Thanks! __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

August 13, 2007, 02:22 PM	#3
Scott Member Join Date: March 24, 1999 Location: SE Mao-ssachusetts Posts: 38	I don't know if it will help, but as a point of reference, I use 20 grains of 4227 w/ a 150 grain flat based bullet as (an accurate) low power gallery load in my 30-06. Works very well. Scott __________________ "Truth, by manner of Force, may be crushed to the earth, but crushed or not, Truth is still Truth.

August 13, 2007, 03:12 PM	#4
UniversalFrost Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,300	IMR 4895 will be the sure ticket for you! I use several different loads depending on which of my mausers I am shooting (the yugos are very picky, but the german 98's shoot anything and do it well). Plus I like IMR 4895 for 308,243 and 223 loads and can be loaded and perform very well across the board for a lot of calibers. __________________ Lifetime member VFW and NRA "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (when all else fails play dead) -Red Green

August 13, 2007, 10:49 PM	#7
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,842	Imr 4895 Is THE powder for milsurp rifles. Best all around performance balance between velocity, pressure, and loading density. Other medium powders can give very good results as well, basically anything with a faster burn rate than IMR 4350 will give better results than powders that slow, or slower. I don't have a manual handly, but 4227 is, I think, too fast to get top velocities before hitting the pressure limits. Might be ok for a reduced load though. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

August 13, 2007, 10:57 PM	#8
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Good info-- much appreciated, folks! For the curious, the IMR 4227 that I do have on hand was used sparingly back when I was loading the .30 M1 Carbine. I sold the rifle (it was a Universal, not Govt Issue) as it turned out to be nothing more than a very loud plinker. I probably will end up using that 4227 on .44 Mag loads... when I get around to finding a good, used .44 mag barrel for my Contender. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

August 13, 2007, 02:13 PM	#2
Trapper L Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 804	The only thing I see of yours that you can use the IMR4227 in is your 223. The following data is from Steves Pages: 40 gr bullet start 20.0grs- 22.0 grs max 45 and 50 gr bullet start 16.5grs- 17.5 grs max 55 gr bullets start 16.0grs -17.0 grs max He does not list velocity but I wouldn't expect much. It should make for an extremely low recoil/noise load though. The IMR 4227 powder is best suited for cases like the 218B, 25-20, 221 FB, and such as it is too fast for mid to large cases but too slow for most pistols. I have used it in 44 mag cases but you didn't list one of those. Here's some other data for you to look at: http://www.handloads.org/loaddata/de...Powder&Source=

August 13, 2007, 08:51 PM	#5
FatWhiteMan Member Join Date: June 10, 2007 Location: Appalachia Posts: 96	IMR4064 is a good choice. I load both Hornady 150 and 170 RN with IMR4064. My load is far from max but I've found that the Winchester brass shows a lot more bulge and bright ring at the head while the Remington does not with the exact same load. I'll admit I have not done a lot with this caliber in recent years. Perhaps I'll get back to it.

August 13, 2007, 09:11 PM	#6
crowbeaner Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Upstate SC Posts: 1,943	The last 8mm ammo I put together used the Speer 150 SP and 54.0 of H414 in new WW brass., CCI 200 primer. We shot them in a restocked Gew 98 and all shots were under 2" at 100 off the bench with open sights. I was impressed with the performance and told my friend to put a scope on it. Unfortunately he moved away and we were no longer able to work with the gun again. You might want to try the 170 gr. for deer and/or bear; they might shoot better than the 150s. Hope this helps. Enjoy. CB

August 16, 2007, 03:25 PM	#9
KEN K Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2006 Location: mid west Georgia Posts: 102	I loaded my Mauser with 175 gr. Sierra Pro-Hunter in new brass with IMR 3031 40-44gr. I used40gr. and it shot well, drops a whitetail in it's tracks with no problem. I agree with trapper the 4227 is to fast I have some that I use to load in 357 mag. but don't use it in my rifle loads. I was told by an IMR rep. on the phone that they no-longer rec amend it for rifle loads. Load guides will take you up to 37,000 pres. but many articles say that 8mm Mauser made for the .323 bullet will handle up to 50,000 pres. make sure what you have and load accordingly.

November 7, 2007, 04:45 PM	#10
Lesmess Junior Member Join Date: November 7, 2007 Posts: 3	IMR 4227 & 8x57 Mauser Lyman Reloading Handbook 45th Addition Copyright 1970 lists the following for IMR 4227: 168 Grain Cast (w/gas check) Powder Sug. Starting Grains Velocity FPS Max Grains Velocity FPS IMR4227 20.0 1658 26.0 2040

November 8, 2007, 06:26 PM	#11
rr2241tx Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2007 Location: The Great State of Taxes Posts: 267	8x57 loads Sevens, H4895 is a very good powder for this cartridge. If the 150s don't work with your sights, try Remington 185 PSPCL which are available for relatively cheap and are pretty close to the 196/197 standard military load. If you luck into some 200gr being clearanced, they will run even closer to the sights, usually.

November 8, 2007, 11:03 PM	#12
BigJakeJ1s Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2005 Location: Arlington TX Posts: 663	Nosler's site now has reloading data for 180 BT & 200 PT/AB in 8x57: Nosler Ballistics Room Andy