Possible NFA question

TXAZ · August 28, 2016, 04:18 PM

A friend inherits a relative's gun collection, mostly .22's - 45's and a few shotguns. (This is NOT me)

So the question is, if there was also an item removed from a European battlefield about 70 years ago (that used belt fed ammo) and had that some how ended up in such a collection, how would you recommend the new owner handle that one item?

rjrivero · August 28, 2016, 05:47 PM

Have the attorney handling the estate check the NFA registry for the item in question. If it's not in the registry let the attorney handle its destruction as per NFA rules. He will only need the serial number.

TXAZ · August 28, 2016, 08:47 PM

Thanks RJRivero. I think you're implying there's a chance that a 70 year old foreign weapon could be lawfully owned here, correct?

lockedcj7 · August 28, 2016, 09:18 PM

Anything's possible. If it's on the registry, the executor of the estate can take temporary possession pending a legal transfer. I think it would be on a form 4 and is tax free to an heir but I'm not certain about that part.

On the NFA webpage under FAQS, it says to call the BATFE immediately if you come into possession of an NFA item. That feels too much like jumping in front of a bus for my tastes.

raimius · August 29, 2016, 06:13 PM

Lawyer up.

If it is not demilled or on the registry, you have to get rid of it. Destruction or donation to a legally eligible entity would be called for.

Sharkbite · August 29, 2016, 06:34 PM

No need to hire (and PAY for) a lawyer. Have your friend contact ATF.

Explain he just inherited this collection and want to comply with the law. If the gun in question was papered and is legal, its a simple matter to transfer it to the heir.

If it is not in the registry, there is no way to make it legal at this point and they will be more then happy to take possesion of the beastie.

With him contacting the ATF and relating the issue there is no intent on his part to break the law. He is simply trying to comply with it.

Now the conspiracy tin foil crowd will tell you that if he calls, they will storm his house and arrest him for illegal possession of a machinegun. Not the case. His call shows he has no intent to keep the gun and is attempting to comply with the law.

James K · August 30, 2016, 11:12 PM

^^^^

No, there is no way he can make an unregistered machinegun "legal", any more than you can make a kilo of heroin or counterfeiting plates "legal". DO NOT believe those who tell you to weld it up, or hide it, or throw it away. Take Sharkbite's advice and contact BATFE. They will check to see if the gun is registered (no, they don't lie to you); if it is, they will tell you how to have it transferred to you. If it is not, they have to confiscate it - they have no choice. (You might be able to remove parts if you want for sale as parts, but there is no legal way you can keep the receiver.)

Jim

Machineguntony · August 31, 2016, 12:42 PM

Even if you can not legally keep the machinegun, often times, on especially old guns, original parts can be very rare and very valuable.

Good luck.

taymag · September 1, 2016, 04:10 PM

I've never read this.. cause Ive never found a MG in the attic

but it may help
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_17/32...tic______.html

medalguy · October 13, 2016, 11:48 PM

I just saw this thread, and while it's over a month old, this information could be useful to someone. The receiver COULD be cut up per BATF regulations and all the stuff sold as a kit which could bring some pretty good bucks. That's the only way to legally sell the gun. But check with BATF first and see if the gun is in the registry. Even if they say no, check VERY carefully for any registration papers before destroying what could be a very valuable part of the estate. More than once BATF has lost paperwork which used to be stored in a series of file cabinets years ago. If you do locate papers, just inform BATF and send them copies of the paperwork.

By the way, if it turns out to be registered, a tax free transfer on a Form 5 can be made to any legal heir. They could then sell the gun or keep it as they wish.

James K · October 15, 2016, 10:09 PM

With the change in the law in 1968, it is no longer possible legally for an unregistered machinegun to be deactivated or "cut up" and kept. If it is not on the registry, it is contraband, period. There may be some other legal recourse, but the best is to contact BATFE and follow their instructions. Some folks will advise donating to a museum, turning it in to the police, converting it to a lamp, or semething else, but playing that kind of game will create a lot more trouble than it is worth.

BATFE, (nonsense to the contrary) is not "out to get you"; they won't shoot you dead on the spot, or eat your children. Follow their directions, as you would with any other contraband you come into possession of with no criminal intent.

Jim

243winxb · October 16, 2016, 08:26 AM

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/machinegun-destruction Hope this is not needed.

James K · October 18, 2016, 08:07 PM

There is a lot of misunderstanding about cutting, welding, etc., of machineguns.

First, those instructions for cutting machineguns apply to guns to be imported, NOT to guns illegally in the U.S. IF you have, say, an unregistered MG.34, whether functional or not, you are in possession of contraband. Period. You cannot deactivate it or make it legal following those instructions, since you already are in violation of the law by possessing the gun. You cannot legally register the gun; you cannot legally try it out; you cannot legally put it in the corner; you cannot legally cut or weld it up; you cannot legally do anything but surrender (abandon) it to a government agency.

Can you arrange for abandonment to a government museum or a government agency? Maybe, but that process is fraught with trouble if things go wrong (which they have). The only reasonable course is to call BATFE and do as instructed.

Jim

August 28, 2016, 04:18 PM	#1
TXAZ Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2010 Location: McMurdo Sound Texas Posts: 4,322	Possible NFA question A friend inherits a relative's gun collection, mostly .22's - 45's and a few shotguns. (This is NOT me) So the question is, if there was also an item removed from a European battlefield about 70 years ago (that used belt fed ammo) and had that some how ended up in such a collection, how would you recommend the new owner handle that one item? __________________ Cave illos in guns et backhoes

August 28, 2016, 05:47 PM	#2
rjrivero Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: NW Ohio Posts: 1,399	Possible NFA question Have the attorney handling the estate check the NFA registry for the item in question. If it's not in the registry let the attorney handle its destruction as per NFA rules. He will only need the serial number.

August 28, 2016, 08:47 PM	#3
TXAZ Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2010 Location: McMurdo Sound Texas Posts: 4,322	Thanks RJRivero. I think you're implying there's a chance that a 70 year old foreign weapon could be lawfully owned here, correct? __________________ Cave illos in guns et backhoes

August 28, 2016, 09:18 PM	#4
lockedcj7 Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2007 Posts: 1,215	Anything's possible. If it's on the registry, the executor of the estate can take temporary possession pending a legal transfer. I think it would be on a form 4 and is tax free to an heir but I'm not certain about that part. On the NFA webpage under FAQS, it says to call the BATFE immediately if you come into possession of an NFA item. That feels too much like jumping in front of a bus for my tastes. __________________ To a much greater extent than most mechanical devices, firearms are terribly unforgiving of any overconfidence, complacency or negligence.

August 31, 2016, 12:42 PM	#8
Machineguntony Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2013 Posts: 1,277	Even if you can not legally keep the machinegun, often times, on especially old guns, original parts can be very rare and very valuable. Good luck. __________________ Sent from Motorola DynaTac 8000x

August 29, 2016, 06:13 PM	#5
raimius Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2008 Posts: 2,199	Lawyer up. If it is not demilled or on the registry, you have to get rid of it. Destruction or donation to a legally eligible entity would be called for.

August 29, 2016, 06:34 PM	#6
Sharkbite Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2013 Location: Western slope of Colorado Posts: 3,679	No need to hire (and PAY for) a lawyer. Have your friend contact ATF. Explain he just inherited this collection and want to comply with the law. If the gun in question was papered and is legal, its a simple matter to transfer it to the heir. If it is not in the registry, there is no way to make it legal at this point and they will be more then happy to take possesion of the beastie. With him contacting the ATF and relating the issue there is no intent on his part to break the law. He is simply trying to comply with it. Now the conspiracy tin foil crowd will tell you that if he calls, they will storm his house and arrest him for illegal possession of a machinegun. Not the case. His call shows he has no intent to keep the gun and is attempting to comply with the law.

August 30, 2016, 11:12 PM	#7
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	^^^^ No, there is no way he can make an unregistered machinegun "legal", any more than you can make a kilo of heroin or counterfeiting plates "legal". DO NOT believe those who tell you to weld it up, or hide it, or throw it away. Take Sharkbite's advice and contact BATFE. They will check to see if the gun is registered (no, they don't lie to you); if it is, they will tell you how to have it transferred to you. If it is not, they have to confiscate it - they have no choice. (You might be able to remove parts if you want for sale as parts, but there is no legal way you can keep the receiver.) Jim

September 1, 2016, 04:10 PM	#9
taymag Member Join Date: June 27, 2015 Posts: 79	I've never read this.. cause Ive never found a MG in the attic but it may help http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_17/32...tic______.html

October 13, 2016, 11:48 PM	#10
medalguy Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2009 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,033	I just saw this thread, and while it's over a month old, this information could be useful to someone. The receiver COULD be cut up per BATF regulations and all the stuff sold as a kit which could bring some pretty good bucks. That's the only way to legally sell the gun. But check with BATF first and see if the gun is in the registry. Even if they say no, check VERY carefully for any registration papers before destroying what could be a very valuable part of the estate. More than once BATF has lost paperwork which used to be stored in a series of file cabinets years ago. If you do locate papers, just inform BATF and send them copies of the paperwork. By the way, if it turns out to be registered, a tax free transfer on a Form 5 can be made to any legal heir. They could then sell the gun or keep it as they wish.

October 15, 2016, 10:09 PM	#11
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	With the change in the law in 1968, it is no longer possible legally for an unregistered machinegun to be deactivated or "cut up" and kept. If it is not on the registry, it is contraband, period. There may be some other legal recourse, but the best is to contact BATFE and follow their instructions. Some folks will advise donating to a museum, turning it in to the police, converting it to a lamp, or semething else, but playing that kind of game will create a lot more trouble than it is worth. BATFE, (nonsense to the contrary) is not "out to get you"; they won't shoot you dead on the spot, or eat your children. Follow their directions, as you would with any other contraband you come into possession of with no criminal intent. Jim

October 16, 2016, 08:26 AM	#12
243winxb Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2011 Location: USA Posts: 1,730	https://www.atf.gov/firearms/machinegun-destruction Hope this is not needed.

October 18, 2016, 08:07 PM	#13
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	There is a lot of misunderstanding about cutting, welding, etc., of machineguns. First, those instructions for cutting machineguns apply to guns to be imported, NOT to guns illegally in the U.S. IF you have, say, an unregistered MG.34, whether functional or not, you are in possession of contraband. Period. You cannot deactivate it or make it legal following those instructions, since you already are in violation of the law by possessing the gun. You cannot legally register the gun; you cannot legally try it out; you cannot legally put it in the corner; you cannot legally cut or weld it up; you cannot legally do anything but surrender (abandon) it to a government agency. Can you arrange for abandonment to a government museum or a government agency? Maybe, but that process is fraught with trouble if things go wrong (which they have). The only reasonable course is to call BATFE and do as instructed. Jim

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search