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Old April 19, 2019, 10:40 AM   #1
chemcal
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Trying to Warm Up to a Striker for CC

Having shot many of these, and shot them well, I am still very wary of carrying one. In several decades of having a ccw, it's been either a DAO or DA/SA; I've bought and sold 6 strikers, and newer ones seem to have shorter take up and lighter triggers. Anyone go through this and eventually acclimate?
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Old April 19, 2019, 10:45 AM   #2
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What about a P99 or P99c if you want a longer/heavier trigger?
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Old April 19, 2019, 10:47 AM   #3
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I have never had an issue - I have owned Glocks since the early gen2 came out (back when the 40S&W first made its debut as a cartridge. I also own HK P7s, Kahrs and now the SIG P365 - all have been flawless.
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Old April 19, 2019, 10:54 AM   #4
chemcal
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Originally Posted by TunnelRat View Post
What about a P99 or P99c if you want a longer/heavier trigger?
I do have a P99 AS and like it; however, I did trade off a PPQ because I never carried it. Sig and HK have some really nice shooting strikers, but not for carry(of course that's me); wish I could be comfortable with one.
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Old April 19, 2019, 11:11 AM   #5
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I have carried a Glock for several years. The trigger weight and length (both matter), and careful attention to handling, have left me with a perfect safety record. People who have been inattentive to handling, holster selection, and maintenance and replacement of holsters, have had accidents. Don't be one of those.

Or, of course, if you just can't get comfortable with it, choose a pistol with a hammer and/or a thumb safety. Beats getting ulcers. There is a wide variety of pistols available these days, so carry what makes you comfortable, by all means.
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Old April 19, 2019, 11:20 AM   #6
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nice advice; thanks--would you have any opinions about the H&K LEM?
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Old April 19, 2019, 02:23 PM   #7
Carl the Floor Walker
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The Beretta Nano and the Kahr are great examples of a good striker fired EDC pistol. Both are DAO trigger and great triggers to boot.
The Nano just got a upgrade, Now called APX Carry. Have not shot one yet, but love my Nano and NEW Kahr CM9.
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Old April 19, 2019, 02:33 PM   #8
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My question is “why”?

Do the strikers do something your current guns / platform don’t do?

Don’t get me wrong. A Glock in a proper holster with training and practice is no more dangerous then any of the other dangerous items we justify putting on our hip. I have no beef with strikers.

My only point is, you have a platform you are practiced with, comfortable with and presumably has met your needs to this point. Why change?

Now if this is simply a case of gunguyiwannnanewtoyandineedtojustifyititis.......well hell that I can understand and embrace.
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Old April 19, 2019, 02:36 PM   #9
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LEM is love or hate. Rarely is there a middle ground. I hate it. It’s smooth and a bit like a light light smooth DA pull. Where it gets weird for me is the way the reset feels and the way the hammer moves with the trigger. Hard to explain and it’s been a long time but try before you buy.
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Old April 19, 2019, 02:46 PM   #10
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Try the s&w guns. They have a decent stock trigger as well as a thumb safety.

I like and trust my Glock 23, but I really don’t carry it. Too easy to mishandle. It would be my fault and I have never found my finger on the trigger when not required, but as a matter of design, I ask my carry guns to have a manual safety.
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Old April 19, 2019, 02:58 PM   #11
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Quote:
My question is “why”?
Agreed. I say this as someone that carries a Glock, if you have a system that works for you then you don't "need" to change.

Quote:
LEM is love or hate.
Bingo. I tried LEM for a while. For a DAO hammer fired system it's hard to beat, but for me the questions sort of became, why? I'd rather DA/SA personally. To me DAO hammer fired guns, as opposed to DA/SA, is someone sitting there saying, "Well that first trigger pull in DA isn't easy, so why don't I make that trigger pull slightly lighter and make all subsequent trigger pulls notably worse?" Some people really like it. I tried it in a HK P2000 for a while. There are variants of lem. There is the standard, "heavy" lem, which breaks right around 7-8 lb. Then you can lighten that with different trigger return springs and hammer springs and get something down to 5-6 lb, known as "light" lem. The system is a bit unusual in that I don't know if I'd call it 100% DAO. It uses the motion of the slide to precock the hammer slightly. Meaning if you pull the trigger and the slide doesn't cycle the next trigger pull is noticeably heavier. It also used to get advertised as having a "short reset". It doesn't have any shorter rest than DA/SA, but unlike a true DAO the trigger doesn't need to be let all the way out to reset so that's nice (SIG's DAK is similar in this regard)

People on HKPro used to extol the virtues of LEM over striker fired because of second strike capability and the like, and then when the VP9 came out most of those people jumped on that like a starving man on a Christmas ham.
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Old April 19, 2019, 04:54 PM   #12
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I remember back when I used to be nervous when carrying. First it was a Glock, then a 1911 C&L. After a while I got used to it and now I don't think about it. I currently alternate between an M&P 2.0 compact and a Keltec PF9. Always carried round chambered in an appropriate holster.
You'll get used to it.
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Old April 19, 2019, 06:25 PM   #13
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I find the walther pps m2 to have a decent trigger. It’s thin and can be found for sub $300.
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Old April 19, 2019, 09:41 PM   #14
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I feel perfectly safe with my striker pistol with 4.5 lb trigger. It stays in a holster and only leaves when I am ready to shoot it.
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Old April 20, 2019, 04:38 AM   #15
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I feel perfectly safe with my striker pistol with 4.5 lb trigger. It stays in a holster and only leaves when I am ready to shoot it.
Just the opposite. I moved away from the light striker fired pistols and never looked back. People wll say a light striker fired pistol is as safe as a DAO and I find that ridiculous.
A 4.5 lb trigger with a fast break is scary. I carried and shot the snot out of a LC9S. The trigger was down to 4lb of pull. I began to really distrust the gun. Just to easy to make a mistake or be faced in a position of having to use he gun under full adrenaline.
There is a natural defense mechanism that people will, to include LE place their finger on the trigger under stress. And there is the natural reaction of all nerves to include the fingers and the hand to contract.
As Hickcock 45 said. "Some of these new Striker fired trigger have become so light, almost like target guns". Why would anyone carry a target style trigger in EDC?
There is just too much room for error in so many ways.

I have a friend, long time shooting enthusiast, former Military armorer, range master, instructor etc. He just recently was headed to the range. When he bent over to pull items in his car, his Glock went off. Sent the bullet through his hip and all the way down his leg. Horrible wound. He told me later a light striker fired trigger would never be carried again
By the way, his gun never left the holster.

You want to carry a light striker fired firearm fine. I say, no problem, better your leg than mine.

I love the DAO. I feel totally in control all he way through. The trigger is deliberate. And I can shoot themas well as any of the striker fired light triggers I own.
It is just about practice and training. I have found, most people do not want to put in the time. And every newbie now goes to the counter and wants a light striker fired trigger. Why? because the internet told them this.

Light crisp trigger, no safety. Seems to be the fad on the internet.

Last edited by Carl the Floor Walker; April 20, 2019 at 04:44 AM.
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Old April 20, 2019, 06:22 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Carl the Floor Walker View Post



I have a friend, long time shooting enthusiast, former Military armorer, range master, instructor etc. He just recently was headed to the range. When he bent over to pull items in his car, his Glock went off. Sent the bullet through his hip and all the way down his leg. Horrible wound. He told me later a light striker fired trigger would never be carried again

By the way, his gun never left the holster.

Then there's more to this story. Firearms don't just magically go off, especially firearms with firing pin or striker blocks. Something actuated that trigger and frankly whether your friend was experienced or not doesn't convince me that striker fired pistols are inherently dangerous from this one story out of millions of these pistols in circulation.

If someone prefers DAO, DA/SA, etc I say more power to them. What I've noticed in the firearms community, however, is a tendency to tell people why their choices are crazy compared to our own. It gets ridiculous enough to seem like religious conversion.

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Old April 20, 2019, 06:38 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by TunnelRat View Post
Then there's more to this story. Firearms don't just magically go off, especially firearms with firing pin or striker blocks. Something actuated that trigger and frankly whether your friend was experienced or not doesn't convince me that striker fired pistols are inherently dangerous from this one story out of millions of these pistols in circulation.

If someone prefers DAO, DA/SA, etc I say more power to them. What I've noticed in the firearms community, however, is a tendency to tell people why their choices are crazy compared to our own. It gets ridiculous enough to seem like religious conversion.

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Thanks and you beat me to it. A lot of talk and such about light triggers and 'heat of the moment'...but not a lot of 'heat of the moment' and either forgetting to chamber a round or forgetting to thumb the 'safety' off..

I started with strikers for EDC..as did my son's and with training and shooting comes familiarity, and safety..Strikers(Glock) just don't 'go off'..

Zealotry..like caliber discussions, 'gotta start with a '4'..type stuff.
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Old April 20, 2019, 07:39 AM   #18
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I just don't like any of the striker fired guns I've tried.
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Old April 20, 2019, 09:17 AM   #19
Carl the Floor Walker
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Originally Posted by TunnelRat View Post
Then there's more to this story. Firearms don't just magically go off, especially firearms with firing pin or striker blocks. Something actuated that trigger and frankly whether your friend was experienced or not doesn't convince me that striker fired pistols are inherently dangerous from this one story out of millions of these pistols in circulation.

If someone prefers DAO, DA/SA, etc I say more power to them. What I've noticed in the firearms community, however, is a tendency to tell people why their choices are crazy compared to our own. It gets ridiculous enough to seem like religious conversion.

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So do tell me the rest of the story, Myself and my friend want to here this. Especially since he broke down every part of the gun and examined it. And to include the holster. And of course he is not the only guy that was shot by light striker fired Pistol. Unless you have lived in a cave you would know this.
And common sense can see the difference in physics. One is going to be unsafer. And how many DAO triggers do you hear having negligent discarges compared to light striker fired triggers. We had three last year alone. None were DAO. And all were when holstering. I wonder how many LE's over the years that have had to use their duty gun, wished they had a stronger, longer pull?

No, I am NOT telling you what to carry. In fact I want you to carry a light striker fired gun. I advise it for you.

And this is a friendly debate. But I have learned to listen to that little voice in my head that gives me warning. I have learned to heed that advice.
Now I do have family that are gun enthusiast. And like my son, I started him off on shooting a Double Action Only. No, I do not want him or any one I love to carry a light striker. For one there is not advantage to one in the first place for fast action shooting and EDC. (unless of course someone does not train on a diligent basis or someone that just target shoots their gun)

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Old April 20, 2019, 09:41 AM   #20
chemcal
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Admittedly, it has alot to do with gunguyiwannnanewtoyandineedtojustifyititis. Also, I find the discussion on striker safety very relevant.
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Old April 20, 2019, 10:19 AM   #21
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Ah the training argument. I spent years and tens of thousands of rounds shooting DA/SA, whether it was a SIG P228/P229 or an HK P2000, including a number of training events at SIG Sauer Academy. I felt very confident with them. But now I use a Glock. Why? Because that first shot accuracy wasn't as consistently good as I wanted for myself. I found I could also maintain proficiency with less shooting time (I still shoot multiple times a month) and that does matter for me. I also found the safety differences to not be what I had assumed originally. Yes there is less required movement of the trigger. If you're going to point to physics, then we can't ignore that less travel and less weight on a trigger leaves less time and less tendency to screw up the sight pixture. If your argument is more training can reduce the effect that has, I agree, but then would also say more training in safe gun handling reduces the negligent behavior as well.

I've also, and I've mentioned this before a number of times on this forum, had a negligent discharge with a S&W 5903. That was a pistol that had a manual safety, a magazine disconnect, and a DA first pull. How then did all these safeties not stop me? Because I had made the decision to press the trigger on what I thought was an empty chamber and that chamber wasn't empty. Many, if not most, of the cases of negligence I read both locally and online when it comes to firearms have more to do with that then people momentarily placing fingers on triggers. And once you've made that decision those safeties or double action pull aren't going to stop you.

As for your friend. You point to physics. I point to mechanics. A Glock pistol not acted on by an external force and in good mechanical working condition (not altered and well maintained) can't magically shoot itself. I'm sorry but you'd have to have a catastrophic failure of multiple internal parts for that to even start to be a possibility. So if we want to go with logic and I'm left with believing your friend's story, or your internet repetition of that story, or what I know mechanically, I'm more inclined to believe the mechanics.

As for my cave dwelling, while I like spelunking I do get out and I have read the cases of negligence. In many of them I'm not convinced another type of pistol would have completely stopped the problem. Striker fired pistols have been sold in the millions and are one of the most, if not the most, popular pistol type today. Even if 0.01% of people that own them are negligent to the point of causing an incident that leaves thousands of potential incidents. My guess is more people end up in car accidents and die in a year than people that die from firearms negligence. Does that mean because of that I shouldn't drive my car?

All risk is relative. If someone says, "I don't care, I don't want to take that risk", fair enough. But if that person then goes around predicting my imminent demise, or in this case of this thread your assertion that we'll all shoot ourselves in the leg, then I take issue.

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Last edited by TunnelRat; April 20, 2019 at 10:28 AM.
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Old April 20, 2019, 10:59 AM   #22
Nathan
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As for your friend. You point to physics. I point to mechanics. A Glock pistol not acted on by an external force and in good mechanical working condition (not altered and well maintained) can't magically shoot itself. I'm sorry but you'd have to have a catastrophic failure of multiple internal parts for that to even start to be a possibility. So if we want to go with logic and I'm left with believing your friend's story, or your internet repetition of that story, or what I know mechanically, I'm more inclined to believe the mechanics.

Nobody is doubting that, still, did a string tie off his jacket or something pull the trigger? He may not know. Holes still suck! 1911 c&l would not have done this.
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Old April 20, 2019, 11:04 AM   #23
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Nobody is doubting that, still, did a string tie off his jacket or something pull the trigger? He may not know. Holes still suck! 1911 c&l would not have done this.
Hence the note about external force.

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Old April 20, 2019, 03:02 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by chemical:
Having shot many of these, and shot them well, I am still very wary of carrying one. In several decades of having a ccw, it's been either a DAO or DA/SA; I've bought and sold 6 strikers, and newer ones seem to have shorter take up and lighter triggers. Anyone go through this and eventually acclimate?
I think if you are wary of carrying a striker at this point you should probably stick to carrying something you are more comfortable carrying. IMHO modifying Glock with a heavy NYPD trigger spring, or a Comminoli manual thumb safety, in an effort to make it “psychologically” safer to carry, really argues that you possibly shouldn’t be carrying a Glock in the first place.
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Old April 20, 2019, 04:00 PM   #25
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As for your friend. You point to physics. I point to mechanics. A Glock pistol not acted on by an external force and in good mechanical working condition (not altered and well maintained) can't magically shoot itself. I'm sorry but you'd have to have a catastrophic failure of multiple internal parts for that to even start to be a possibility. So if we want to go with logic and I'm left with believing your friend's story, or your internet repetition of that story, or what I know mechanically, I'm more inclined to believe the mechanics.
Well said TunnelRat. If the use of a Glock or any similar firing system makes you uncomfortable then use something else. A Glock being negligently handled and discharged is very different than one going off while being carried in a proper holster. Negligent discharges happen all the time. Glocks going off spontaneously without manipulation of the trigger just doesn't happen. A 1911 carried with the safety off, in a proper holster will not shoot itself either.
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