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Old April 19, 2019, 07:30 AM   #1
rcollier
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Good entry level 1911 9mm

Looking at entering into the 1911 zone!
I really don’t want to drop $1000 on a new pistol. What would be a good choice for $700-800 range?
I am a complete novice with this type of handgun as I have always had stryker
Handguns

Thanks

Last edited by rcollier; April 19, 2019 at 08:54 AM.
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Old April 19, 2019, 07:54 AM   #2
1stmar
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$550 or less rock island, $700-800 Springfield.

Cant go wrong w this. https://grabagun.com/springfield-px9...11a1-auto.html
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Old April 19, 2019, 08:04 AM   #3
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Not sure at all what the difference is between an entry level pistol and one that isn’t.
Buy the best tools you can afford. There are any number of reliable, accurate 9mm pistols on the market and in your price range. Glock, Sig, Beretta, Ruger all make multiple models well within your price range.
More important is what you are going to do with it....that will determine size, mag capacity. Rtc
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Old April 19, 2019, 08:13 AM   #4
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I think he's asking specifically for 1911s.

I would look at Springfield for sure.
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Old April 19, 2019, 08:56 AM   #5
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I have this 9mm kimber two tone 1911. It's a very nice gun for the money. It runs good and looks great. You can buy them here for $629 with free shipping.

https://www.smga.com/kimber/custom-i...-9mm-2017-1342
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Old April 19, 2019, 08:58 AM   #6
rcollier
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Originally Posted by odugrad View Post
I think he's asking specifically for 1911s.

I would look at Springfield for sure.
Yes looking at 1911 platform. I currently have a Ruger LC9s and. Sig 320 looking to add the 1911 for range fun mainly
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Old April 19, 2019, 09:03 AM   #7
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Springfield, ruger or colt make quality 1911s that won't break the bank.

I recommend the springfield range officer in 9mm. The Colt competition model is also an excellent choice
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Old April 19, 2019, 09:20 AM   #8
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$700-800 Springfield.
The $800 dollar range will get you a Colt, which is frankly worth the very small premium over a Springfield in my experience.
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Old April 19, 2019, 10:31 AM   #9
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Are you sure you want 9mm? It’s like a turbo 4 muscle car... it loses the experience.

Another perspective is that the important thing in a 1911 is the frame. If you want to tune your gun up, however tight you want it, the gunsmith has to cope with the quality of the metal in the frame.

Springfield and Norinco come to mind on the low end. Colts are good... and I don’t have any others but that doesn’t mean they are not good. Caspian is the top of the line.

I guess 9mm is the best these days. It slays dragons, kills bad guys, chops and makes julienne fries. It’s a tapered wall high pressure cartridge that is gonna crack and snap. .45 is the subsonic boomer. It has a very specific recoil and I bet you would like the experience.

If it has to be 9mm... I like springfields.
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Old April 19, 2019, 11:55 AM   #10
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Ruger, Colt, Kimber, S A, all good. I bought a Citadel and it is worth the 329.00 that it cost but is is no where near the quality of even the Kimber. It has been fun to shoot and to work on. It did need attention to keep it working to suit me. The only breakage was a broken ejector at about 3000 rounds, the rear sight dovetail is way oversize, had to Locktite the sight in.
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Old April 19, 2019, 12:10 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkeypete View Post
Are you sure you want 9mm? It’s like a turbo 4 muscle car... it loses the experience.

Caspian is the top of the line.

I guess 9mm is the best these days. It slays dragons, kills bad guys, chops and makes julienne fries. It’s a tapered wall high pressure cartridge that is gonna crack and snap. .45 is the subsonic boomer. It has a very specific recoil and I bet you would like the experience.
Caspian does not make pistols. They only make parts.

Why are you ragging on 9mm? You're criticisms are invalid and pointless.
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Old April 19, 2019, 07:18 PM   #12
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I do not see where the OP mentioned 9mm for this 1911 quest.

Ruger and Remington make nice but not expensive ones, but those ARMSCOR made pistols are a good value. They are sold under several names, and I think that Citadel is one of them.

SIG and S&W do have less expensive 1911 pistols in their lineup along with some truly bellz-n-whistles models, but I'm not sure of the price.

There are 1911s being made in Israel and imported by (I think) the Desert Eagle people, Magnum Research Inc (MRI). I do not know how expensive they are but the internet does!

Kahr (Auto Ordance) makes 1911s. H&R may still sell some with their name on it, but those are ARMSCOR made, IIRC.

Heck, who doesn't make 1911s these days?

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Old April 20, 2019, 05:54 AM   #13
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Quote:
I do not see where the OP mentioned 9mm for this 1911 quest.
It’s in the title of the thread.

“Good entry level 1911 in 9mm

Sometimes I do the same where I open an interesting link and forget to read the title for pertinent information.
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Old April 20, 2019, 06:59 AM   #14
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Awhile back I took in a RIA tactical in .45 as a range toy. Totally reliable since day one.
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Old April 20, 2019, 09:12 AM   #15
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@74A95... as I was discussing quality frames, one can purchase a pistol made with a Caspian frame.

Let me try to explain again:

I identify with many firearms in my collection for historical reasons. Browning built the 1911 “fore-runners” in the late 1800’s.

Around 1900, the US was involved in suppressing an “insurrection” in the Philippines. The fighters there turned out to be very tough in battle with courage, determination, and drugs. It was determined that .38 Special lacked the stopping power for a combat handgun. US forces switched to a single action .45 Colt.

The army looked for solutions in an automatic pistol (to use the term of the day) and found many cartridges to be inadequate and put out requests for a pistol of .45 caliber or greater.

Oddly enough, the Colt 1911 was adopted in 1911. It served from 1911 to 1985 when it was replaced by the Beretta. 1911s have been made in many countries and in many interesting factories. Some avid collectors here can correct all my mistakes.

As a bullseye competitor, I remember the furor back then. My dad bought a Beretta because he liked to shoot stuff and was retired and had the time. I spent a day at the range with my customized Springfield .45 and a stock Beretta 9 mm.

What do I have against the 9mm? Nothing. It’s okay. It’s cheap. It’s the McDonald’s Cheeseburger of cartridges, to me. I have owned a whole lot of guns in different cartridges since the 80s as I enjoy many aspects of the shooting sports.

In a 1911 frame, .45 is traditional. .22 caliber isn’t a new idea either. Hot-shot bullseye shooters developed 1911’s in .380 then in 38 Super because of how competitive rules were set. Just my opinion, but a .38 Super 1911 is a status symbol.

From practical experience: a very typical target load is a 220 grain wadcutter pushed to around 800 FPS by 3 or 4 grains of bullseye or 231 with the 8 pound spring installed. Even the “target” load packs a wallop. Sub-sonic. Point of aim at 50 feet also works at 50 yards which are the 2 common bullseye distances.

Shooting is a challenge when moving up from a .22 competition gun but from my experience:
*It takes some gunsmithing effort to get accuracy target shooters want (that any decent blowback .22 achieves simply)
*It’s heavy
*The recoil, BOOM!, and flash requires nerve and practice to avoid flinch
*Trigger pull is fabulous
*Recoil is BIG, a big push. A big shove, raising the hand and arm. Even at “hardball” loads, recoil is BIG!, BOOM! SHOVE!! While it will wear you down, it’s not slapping your paw.
*shooting .45 acp hardball in the enormous H&K SOCOM gun (because “mohr bullits”) tames the hardball load but loses the beauty of the lines of the pistol and nostalgia “aura”.
*reloading the low pressure, straight wall cartridge is a breeze.

9mm
*super sonic. It makes a high pitched crack that hurts my ears compared to .45, yes- with muffs on. I plug and muff around those things.
*recoil is snappy and slappy. If one wants to give up the power of the .45, just go to .38 Super, a cartridge proven in competition.
*the guys I see at the range blowing 18 round magfuls rapid fire at barn door size targets 5 yards away seem to mostly shoot 9mm. Sorry, just a prejudice of mine.
*I don’t know anyone that reloads 9mm but I’ve been out of competitions for a long while. I just see piles of cheap 9mm at the store. I don’t read a lot here about guys discussing accurate 9mm load data.
* 9mm guys seem to be pleased to hit big steel plates as fast as they can, whereas I like to keep track of how accurate I can shoot. Shoot at clay pidgeons, at least!

I used to be a “.45” guy. .45acp, .45 Colt, .454 Casull. Big lead, big momentum. My ballistics tests were not on gelatin but on big Wisconsin white tail deer (.45 Colt and Casull) and I lost count around 20. My conclusion is “Sell the Casull, I’m never going buffalo hunting, absolutely never want to shoot a beautiful elephant, and the .45 Blackhawk will do fine on anything in Nort America. Shot placement is everything. My dad was generally a .44 guy. He passed his best guns to me, and now my big gun is his .44.

I would not hunt a deer with .45 acp out of respect for the animal and never ever even consider hunting a deer with 9mm because it’s weak tea. Deer are commonly 150-200 pounds where I hunt.

1911. Just my opinion, but a 1911 in 9mm is like a Ferrari Fiberglas kit on a VW bug... it’s like non-alcohol beer.. it’s like putting “NOS” stickers on your stock Civic.

9mm in a Beretta? Heck yeah. Glock and other plastic guns? Absolutely. 9mm reflects the shooting experience of those platforms. 9mm snubby? Why not.

How about that 9mm cylinder for the Blackhawk? Write to Henry and ask why they don’t make a 9mm lever action? No, that’s like making your Labrador wear a pink skirt then taking him to a field trial. His friends would laugh at him.

Anyways, to me, 9mm is generally boring.

Not to say I don’t have my eyes on one right now... but it’s in an interesting design.

Last edited by stinkeypete; April 20, 2019 at 09:27 AM.
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Old April 20, 2019, 11:24 AM   #16
74A95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkeypete View Post
@74A95... as I was discussing quality frames, one can purchase a pistol made with a Caspian frame.

Around 1900, the US was involved in suppressing an “insurrection” in the Philippines. The fighters there turned out to be very tough in battle with courage, determination, and drugs. It was determined that .38 Special lacked the stopping power for a combat handgun. US forces switched to a single action .45 Colt.

In a 1911 frame, .45 is traditional. .22 caliber isn’t a new idea either. Hot-shot bullseye shooters developed 1911’s in .380 then in 38 Super because of how competitive rules were set. Just my opinion, but a .38 Super 1911 is a status symbol.

9mm
*super sonic. It makes a high pitched crack that hurts my ears compared to .45, yes- with muffs on. I plug and muff around those things.

*recoil is snappy and slappy. If one wants to give up the power of the .45, just go to .38 Super, a cartridge proven in competition.

*I don’t know anyone that reloads 9mm but I’ve been out of competitions for a long while. I just see piles of cheap 9mm at the store. I don’t read a lot here about guys discussing accurate 9mm load data.

* 9mm guys seem to be pleased to hit big steel plates as fast as they can, whereas I like to keep track of how accurate I can shoot. Shoot at clay pidgeons, at least!

It was the 38 Long Colt, not the 38 Special. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38_Long_Colt

What mainstream manufacturer uses Caspian frames? I'm familiar with Caspian frames and slides. I've built several 1911s with them.

I've not seen a full sized 1911 in 380. Do you have a resource you could point me to that discusses that? Thanks.

What do you mean by "a .38 Super 1911 is a status symbol." I don't understand.

9MM 147 grain bullets (and heavier) are subsonic and aren't snappy.

Going from a 45 to a 38 Super does not give up the power of the 45. You gain power with the 38 Super. The 38 Super has more power (muzzle energy) than a 45, but with less recoil.

The 9mm is at least as accurate as the 45, and perhaps more so according to professional bullseye gunsmiths.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbWsFItQY9w
http://chamberscustom.com/about-us/

One can find accurate load data for the 9mm at the bullseye forum: https://www.bullseyeforum.net/

I don't get your references to reloading 9mm. Is there some point I'm missing?

So, you're saying that people who own and shoot 9mms are reckless??? You're judging people by what caliber of gun they shoot??? Not sure what all your 9mm comments are intended to convey.
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Old April 21, 2019, 06:54 AM   #17
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rcollier, I haven't kept up with current prices, but will share my 2¢ worth on 9MM 1911s in general. I understand many don't consider a 1911 chambered in 9MM to be "proper". So be it, I still like them and have owned 9MM Colts, Kimbers, Dan Wessons, Springfields, and STI. More than one of each, except for a single STI. The 9MM 1911s that have been reliable from day 1 have been the Dan Wessons, Kimbers and the STI. I don't have a Ransom rest, but shooting carefully as I can,over a rest from the bench,the more closely fitted 9MMs have been as accurate as comparable .45ACPs,etc. One thing I have experienced, with one exception, is that the 9MMs with ramped barrels have been the ones that were functionally reliable without any tuning,tweaking, polishing,etc. That one exception was with a Springfield with ramped barrel that was not functionally reliable; probably one of those late Friday afternoon guns
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Old April 21, 2019, 08:44 AM   #18
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“Status Symbol” means guys will think it’s cool.

The obscure brand “Colt” makes several 38 Super 1911s... oddly named “1911 38”.

To learn about why the .38 Super was invented, google it.

Why .38 Super instead of 9mm? Since the gun is for target use, cast semi wadcutters are used. Straight wall and proper case volume combine with a proper twist ratio in the barrel.

Now, please tell me about the rich American history of the 9mm 1911?
“There is cheap ammo at Wallyworld and we can sell them” is what leaps to my mind.

Please tell me about the rich history of the 9mm cartridge?
“Lugers are interesting” is my first thought. I’ve had a couple. Unfortunately, you run in to a lot of creepy people collecting guns from a defeated nation with political symbols on them representing abhorrent beliefs and atrocities.

“What would Captain America shoot?”
Trick question. “.45acp” or “nazis”.

It doesn’t need to be all that serious. I am just trying to understand WHY a 9mm .45?

It seems like “cheeseburger pizza”, putting GTO body panels on a Tesla frame, mixing beer and wine in the same coffee cup, using a pit bull for duck hunting... 9mm Charter Bulldog.

You can do it. It will work, with enough effort. Why?

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Old April 21, 2019, 08:50 AM   #19
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My I suggest a Star BM or Star B if you want a 9mm pistol that mimics a 1911 in looks, but will not break the bank and also allows you to own a piece of history.

Here is a nice overview of the Star BM from the late, great Stephen A Camp.
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Old April 21, 2019, 08:53 AM   #20
74A95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkeypete View Post
“Status Symbol” means guys will think it’s cool.

The obscure brand “Colt” makes several 38 Super 1911s... oddly named “1911 38”.

To learn about why the .38 Super was invented, google it.

Why .38 Super instead of 9mm? Since the gun is for target use, cast semi wadcutters are used. Straight wall and proper case volume combine with a proper twist ratio in the barrel.

Now, please tell me about the rich American history of the 9mm 1911?
“There is cheap ammo at Wallyworld and we can sell them” is what leaps to my mind.

Please tell me about the rich history of the 9mm cartridge?
“Lugers are interesting” is my first thought. I’ve had a couple. Unfortunately, you run in to a lot of creepy people collecting guns from a defeated nation with political symbols on them representing abhorrent beliefs and atrocities.

“What would Captain America shoot?”
Trick question. “.45acp” or “nazis”.

It doesn’t need to be all that serious. I am just trying to understand WHY a 9mm .45?

It seems like “cheeseburger pizza”, putting GTO body panels on a Tesla frame, mixing beer and wine in the same coffee cup, using a pit bull for duck hunting...

You can do it. It will work, with enough effort. Why?
I said it before and I'll say it again. You're criticisms are invalid and pointless.
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Old April 21, 2019, 09:17 AM   #21
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Its hard to beat the RIA ultra series (or whatever RIA calls it now) for around $600 you get a ton of upgrades including fiber front sight, adj rear, mag well and G10 grips plus others. all of my 1911s are RIA and STI. I sold off the Springfields because my RIA ultra guns were more accurate (not as pretty but more accurate)
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Old April 21, 2019, 09:19 AM   #22
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For a entry level 1911 in 9mm the RIA, Taurus, Citadel come to mine, you may find a used Ruger or Springfield? I have an older Springfield in 9mm and love it. My first centerfire gun I ever shot was my dad's Colt Combat Commander in 9mm so they hold a special place for me.

The 9mm 1911's are fun and cheap to shoot (VS something like 38super) and are often over looked or looked down on by the 45acp only 1911 snobs. Be sure the tiny G.I. sights are something you really want (they are standard on a lot of entry level guns), it is usually cheaper/easier to step up and get something with a Novak style sight VS trying to upgrade later.
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Old April 21, 2019, 10:19 AM   #23
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Hi rcollier,

If you think you might want to keep a 1911-A1 in your inventory, I'd go with be best quality you can afford. 1stmar's recommendation was excellent. Save a few hundred more and you can buy a Springfield Armory TRP. My bet if if you were to buy a TRP, you won't shoot your strikers again.

I used to own Colts. I've dumped a Series 70. I've sold a Series 80 Officers Model. I've never trusted either. The Series 70 was of mediocre quality. I've never felt comfortable with either gun, which is why I replaced them with Springfield Armory.
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Old April 21, 2019, 10:22 AM   #24
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The OP, rcollier, is looking for an entry level 1911 in 9mm. Since Caspian does not make guns and their parts are not considered "entry level," there is no point in discussing or even mentioning Caspian.

Also, since the OP specifically asked about 9mm, it is off-topic to detour into discussions of why 1911s should not be chambered in 9mm. 1911s have been offered in 9mm since Colt introduced the Commander in 1950. That's nearly 70 years. Today almost every maker of 1911s offers at least a few models in 9mm. Those who wish to help rcollier might do so by addressing the question.
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Old April 21, 2019, 07:18 PM   #25
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My RIA "Rock" standard (formerly tac 1) was a little under $500 from Gallery of Guns. It is accurate and has been dead reliable. Never a malfunction of any kind.
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