Noob AK question

AERacing1813 · April 3, 2019, 11:00 AM

So i've been in the market for an AK for quite some time, but with all the options I'm unsure what to get, what "features" are important etc. I've been between Arsenal / Wasr for a while but haven't pulled the trigger...

Goal: I'd really like an AK similar to what the "Pirates" on the horn of Africa use, I don't want to do class 3, but does someone make an identical replica of what the use in semi auto only? or know the manufacture's they're most likely to use?

any info appreciated!

**44 AMP** · April 3, 2019, 11:22 AM

"Pirates" are going to use whatever they can get their hands on, and their AKs would most likely by the standard military models (select fire) made either in the Soviet Union or a Warsaw Pact nation. There might be some Chinese or even Egyptian made, literally anything is possible.

TBM900 · April 3, 2019, 07:05 PM

Best bang for the buck AK is the wasr

As for what the Skinny's use.....whatever they can get their hands on, anything goes.

Ignition Override · April 14, 2019, 01:14 AM

Videos depict wear at 2,500, and often 5,000 rounds in many brands. If there is premature internal wear he shows you exactly where the excessive deformation is, and also when a loss of acceptable headspace occurs-if at all.

"AKOU" with "Rob Ski". His WASR 10, among other guns, exhibited high quality milspec (chf barrel etc) components and assembly. This was just one of his tested AKs which finally reached 5,000 rds.

How do the many --other-- AK YouTube videos demonstrate and evaluate the durability and production quality control with a brand-new gun, when these are taken directly out of a box or gun shop?

riffraff · April 14, 2019, 01:24 AM

A more straight forward question might be how much better is an arsenal versus a wasr?

kymasabe · April 14, 2019, 06:49 AM

Interesting. A good source of information might be to contact ranges that rent AK's and see what kind of life they're getting from their rental guns. It's been a while since I read a report about a rental AK, but I'm pretty sure the range that was interviewed reported 50,000+ rounds thru a Wasr before it finally beat itself to death.

TBM900 · April 14, 2019, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by riffraff

A more straight forward question might be how much better is an arsenal versus a wasr?

For all practical purposes....
I would rather have two WASR's for the price of one Arsenal

Ignition Override · May 2, 2019, 12:24 AM

Battlefield Las Vegas reported that their milled AKs always outlast the stamped guns. This quote might be on AKfiles.

But B.L.V.'s comments, if I remember correctly, were comparing rifles with 50,000 or higher round counts. If you plan to use over 50 (or so) thousands of rounds, then buy Only a milled AK.
50 x $220 = about $11,000 worth of ammo for just one rifle.

TBM900: roger that.
If you have an imported AK with the chf barrel, original receiver, matching bolt and whichever imported bolt carrier, your components should be extremely durable.

Builders at AKfiles tell me that they normally don't even wonder about headspace until after approx. 6,000 rds.--Unless a private builder here takes a complete, already-imported gun and chooses to swap a bolt or barrel, or assembles from a kit (Romy G kits etc) which would require a headspace check during an initial assembly.

Some have done this in order to have an "East" German AK etc.

cptjack · May 2, 2019, 03:28 AM

wy do you want to be a pirate?

highpower3006 · May 2, 2019, 07:21 AM

I have owned AK's at pretty much every price point from a Valmet M62/S down to a WASR and honestly any current or former communist country factory built AK will get the job done.

But, having shot a bunch of different types/calibers/brands of AK's, my personal recommendation would be to get a milled one. Before I get ganged up on yes, I know that a properly made AKM (stamped receiver AK) is going to probably outlast the owner and yes I know that a stamped AK is marginally lighter. However, my experience is that the milled guns are smoother and just nicer to shoot. At the current pricing of even an entry level AK, to me it makes sense to kick down the extra dough and get something like a Arsenal SAM7 over a WASR.

Please, avoid like they have the plague, anything made by Century i.e. their RAS47 or the C39 V1/2. Oddly enough their VSKA AK pattern rifle just completed the AKOU 5000 round test and survived, so maybe they have finally figured out that people don't want a rifle that has bolts and trunnions made out of cheese. Still, I would rather spend the time and effort to locate a quality foreign made rifle.

You should do tons of research before you plunk down your money, not just here but on other websites that are more geared to AK's. There are some great kit builds out there, Atlantic Firearms has marketed several different models of AK's that were built on European kits and they are decent rifles. I had one of their Hungarian kit builds and it was pretty darn nice, especially for the $550 that I paid for it. Unfortunately, a friend of mine talked me out of it after shooting it one day and I no longer own it.

I tend to avoid home built AK's as you have no way to know how good a job was done. Kits built by quality builders like Two Rivers are a good bet, but they aren't cheap, I know because I have two of them and in each case I have at least as much in them as a new Arsenal would cost. Still, sometimes it's the only way to get different models of AK's that were never imported into the US as complete rifles.

Good luck with your purchase.....

ThomasT · May 2, 2019, 04:25 PM

Highpower I think you answered the question to a thread I was about to start. I am curious about AKs but not sure if I want to spend what they are asking for one. So i looked at the Century offered guns and saw these. I think they are the same guns my Local Cabelas had out for display.

https://www.centuryarms.com/vska-wood-7-62-x-39.html

I am like tho OP. Looking but undecided. The AK would just be a toy for me. I did own a Mak-90 for about two weeks and just didn't like the thumb hole stock. I paid $250 for it and then sold it two weeks later for $750. I took it apart and was impressed with how well it was made and how simple the design was.

highpower3006 · May 2, 2019, 07:05 PM

Quote:

I am like tho OP. Looking but undecided. The AK would just be a toy for me. I did own a Mak-90 for about two weeks and just didn't like the thumb hole stock. I paid $250 for it and then sold it two weeks later for $750. I took it apart and was impressed with how well it was made and how simple the design was.

You should have kept the MAK90 and converted it back to what it should've looked like. I did a few of them and I think they came out pretty good.

Stamped MAK90 converted into a spiker:

Milled MAK90 made to look like a Type 3 AK:

Another milled MAK, this time with a more traditional Chinese buttstock:

kenny53 · May 2, 2019, 09:15 PM

I have 2 WASR 10 the only problem I ever had was the firing pin broke on one. A noob to shooting was firing it at the time and I not sure what happened. When I took the gun apart the firing was laying inside the gun and bowed. It wasn't to hard to put a new one in. I got each AK for about $300 ea, I don't know what they go for now. I do know they are fun to shoot.

ThomasT · May 3, 2019, 11:29 AM

Quote:

You should have kept the MAK90 and converted it back to what it should've looked like. I did a few of them and I think they came out pretty good.

In hind sight you are probably right. But mine had the straight cut receiver and the stock to fit was hard to find and when I did it was a couple hundred bucks IIRC. And mine was the milled receiver. But as cool as it was it didn't really blow my hair back. I like my two SKS rifles far better. But maybe I should have just hung on to it. I bought it from my niece's boyfriend with no paperwork tying it to me.

So what do you think of the Century gun I linked to?

highpower3006 · May 3, 2019, 01:43 PM

Quote:

So what do you think of the Century gun I linked to?

For me the jury is still out on them. For that kind of dough I would look at a WASR or NPAP. Then again, I never buy anything new as I always search out my guns on the secondary market. Over on the AKfiles, I see people scoring decent deals on all sorts of used, quality AK's off of places like Armslist and backpage.

I also tend to take a day now and then to do what I call the "gun store crawl" to see what the local shops have in stock. Not AK's, but just a few days ago I scored a WWII Luftwaffe issued M37 pistol, a West German Walther PP and an early S&W M28-2 all from the same store and I got all of them for under a grand total. The M37 alone is worth almost that by itself, so it was well worth my time to look around.

Mike38 · May 3, 2019, 05:20 PM

Ignition Override, Wear at 2500 rounds? Say it ain't so. I've got near that on my Saiga and the paint is barely worn even at the contact areas. Do you mean 25,000?

veprdude · May 6, 2019, 01:09 AM

C39V2 is milled.

I have nothing but good things to say about the Century Arms C39v2. Although I only put a few hundred rounds through it, zero issues and the action seemed very smooth. Pretty accurate as well.

My Wasr 10/63 and SAR-1 are equally reliable but feel clunkier.

highpower3006 · May 6, 2019, 10:15 AM

Quote:

C39V2 is milled.

I have nothing but good things to say about the Century Arms C39v2. Although I only put a few hundred rounds through it, zero issues and the action seemed very smooth. Pretty accurate as well.

My Wasr 10/63 and SAR-1 are equally reliable but feel clunkier.

At only a few hundred rounds, your C39 has not yet had the round count to start having headspace issues. Both Tim at MAC and Robski at AKOU had theirs go out somewhere in the neighborhood of 2K + rounds. Both rifles had reached the point where they would swallow a field gauge, which means that the headspace had opened up into the dangerous range.

A WASR or SAR-1 my feel clunkier to you, but both have a lifespan in excess of 50,000 rounds. A rather large difference if you ask me.

veprdude · May 7, 2019, 03:06 PM

An important feature is a nice trigger without trigger-slap. There are a lot of good aftermarket ones available now besides the generic tapco G2. ALG makes some good ones I hear.

RC20 · May 7, 2019, 03:22 PM

I am not sure why anyone would willingly want to have a rusted piece of junk that a pirate would have.

Quote:

I am like tho OP. Looking but undecided. The AK would just be a toy for me. I did own a Mak-90 for about two weeks and just didn't like the thumb hole stock. I paid $250

Wow, the finest made AK, huge bargain and ......... buy another one?

Iron Wood Stock and an AK47 PMag and you have a legal good looking (well classic) AK semi auto.

7.62 man · May 7, 2019, 05:48 PM

If you are wanting a special looking AK you can always build your own just the way you want it.
I bought my first WASR 10 & then took it apart measured everything, then built my own off the measurements. That was back before flats or drilling jigs. I used a Coldsteel Solution blank & my measurements for the rivets & FCG holes.
It turned out fairly good.

April 3, 2019, 11:00 AM	#1
AERacing1813 Member Join Date: December 26, 2018 Posts: 41	Noob AK question So i've been in the market for an AK for quite some time, but with all the options I'm unsure what to get, what "features" are important etc. I've been between Arsenal / Wasr for a while but haven't pulled the trigger... Goal: I'd really like an AK similar to what the "Pirates" on the horn of Africa use, I don't want to do class 3, but does someone make an identical replica of what the use in semi auto only? or know the manufacture's they're most likely to use? any info appreciated!

April 3, 2019, 11:22 AM	#2
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,846	"Pirates" are going to use whatever they can get their hands on, and their AKs would most likely by the standard military models (select fire) made either in the Soviet Union or a Warsaw Pact nation. There might be some Chinese or even Egyptian made, literally anything is possible. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

April 14, 2019, 01:14 AM	#4
Ignition Override Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2008 Location: About 20 nm from the Big Muddy Posts: 2,887	Videos depict wear at 2,500, and often 5,000 rounds in many brands. If there is premature internal wear he shows you exactly where the excessive deformation is, and also when a loss of acceptable headspace occurs-if at all. "AKOU" with "Rob Ski". His WASR 10, among other guns, exhibited high quality milspec (chf barrel etc) components and assembly. This was just one of his tested AKs which finally reached 5,000 rds. How do the many --other-- AK YouTube videos demonstrate and evaluate the durability and production quality control with a brand-new gun, when these are taken directly out of a box or gun shop? Last edited by Ignition Override; April 14, 2019 at 01:20 AM.

April 14, 2019, 06:49 AM	#6
kymasabe Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2005 Location: SW Florida Posts: 2,747	Interesting. A good source of information might be to contact ranges that rent AK's and see what kind of life they're getting from their rental guns. It's been a while since I read a report about a rental AK, but I'm pretty sure the range that was interviewed reported 50,000+ rounds thru a Wasr before it finally beat itself to death. __________________ God's creatures big and small, eat them one, eat them all.

May 2, 2019, 12:24 AM	#8
Ignition Override Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2008 Location: About 20 nm from the Big Muddy Posts: 2,887	Battlefield Las Vegas reported that their milled AKs always outlast the stamped guns. This quote might be on AKfiles. But B.L.V.'s comments, if I remember correctly, were comparing rifles with 50,000 or higher round counts. If you plan to use over 50 (or so) thousands of rounds, then buy Only a milled AK. 50 x $220 = about $11,000 worth of ammo for just one rifle. TBM900: roger that. If you have an imported AK with the chf barrel, original receiver, matching bolt and whichever imported bolt carrier, your components should be extremely durable. Builders at AKfiles tell me that they normally don't even wonder about headspace until after approx. 6,000 rds.--Unless a private builder here takes a complete, already-imported gun and chooses to swap a bolt or barrel, or assembles from a kit (Romy G kits etc) which would require a headspace check during an initial assembly. Some have done this in order to have an "East" German AK etc. Last edited by Ignition Override; May 2, 2019 at 12:40 AM.

April 3, 2019, 07:05 PM	#3
TBM900 Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2015 Posts: 777	Best bang for the buck AK is the wasr As for what the Skinny's use.....whatever they can get their hands on, anything goes.

April 14, 2019, 01:24 AM	#5
riffraff Senior Member Join Date: January 21, 2016 Posts: 629	A more straight forward question might be how much better is an arsenal versus a wasr?

May 2, 2019, 03:28 AM	#9
cptjack Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2014 Posts: 314	wy do you want to be a pirate?

May 2, 2019, 07:21 AM	#10
highpower3006 Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2011 Location: Savannah TN Posts: 1,220	I have owned AK's at pretty much every price point from a Valmet M62/S down to a WASR and honestly any current or former communist country factory built AK will get the job done. But, having shot a bunch of different types/calibers/brands of AK's, my personal recommendation would be to get a milled one. Before I get ganged up on yes, I know that a properly made AKM (stamped receiver AK) is going to probably outlast the owner and yes I know that a stamped AK is marginally lighter. However, my experience is that the milled guns are smoother and just nicer to shoot. At the current pricing of even an entry level AK, to me it makes sense to kick down the extra dough and get something like a Arsenal SAM7 over a WASR. Please, avoid like they have the plague, anything made by Century i.e. their RAS47 or the C39 V1/2. Oddly enough their VSKA AK pattern rifle just completed the AKOU 5000 round test and survived, so maybe they have finally figured out that people don't want a rifle that has bolts and trunnions made out of cheese. Still, I would rather spend the time and effort to locate a quality foreign made rifle. You should do tons of research before you plunk down your money, not just here but on other websites that are more geared to AK's. There are some great kit builds out there, Atlantic Firearms has marketed several different models of AK's that were built on European kits and they are decent rifles. I had one of their Hungarian kit builds and it was pretty darn nice, especially for the $550 that I paid for it. Unfortunately, a friend of mine talked me out of it after shooting it one day and I no longer own it. I tend to avoid home built AK's as you have no way to know how good a job was done. Kits built by quality builders like Two Rivers are a good bet, but they aren't cheap, I know because I have two of them and in each case I have at least as much in them as a new Arsenal would cost. Still, sometimes it's the only way to get different models of AK's that were never imported into the US as complete rifles. Good luck with your purchase.....

May 2, 2019, 04:25 PM	#11
ThomasT Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 2,753	Highpower I think you answered the question to a thread I was about to start. I am curious about AKs but not sure if I want to spend what they are asking for one. So i looked at the Century offered guns and saw these. I think they are the same guns my Local Cabelas had out for display. https://www.centuryarms.com/vska-wood-7-62-x-39.html I am like tho OP. Looking but undecided. The AK would just be a toy for me. I did own a Mak-90 for about two weeks and just didn't like the thumb hole stock. I paid $250 for it and then sold it two weeks later for $750. I took it apart and was impressed with how well it was made and how simple the design was.

May 2, 2019, 09:15 PM	#13
kenny53 Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2015 Location: My back yard Posts: 971	I have 2 WASR 10 the only problem I ever had was the firing pin broke on one. A noob to shooting was firing it at the time and I not sure what happened. When I took the gun apart the firing was laying inside the gun and bowed. It wasn't to hard to put a new one in. I got each AK for about $300 ea, I don't know what they go for now. I do know they are fun to shoot.

May 3, 2019, 05:20 PM	#16
Mike38 Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2009 Location: North Central Illinois Posts: 2,710	Ignition Override, Wear at 2500 rounds? Say it ain't so. I've got near that on my Saiga and the paint is barely worn even at the contact areas. Do you mean 25,000?

May 6, 2019, 01:09 AM	#17
veprdude Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2019 Location: Texas Posts: 430	C39V2 is milled. I have nothing but good things to say about the Century Arms C39v2. Although I only put a few hundred rounds through it, zero issues and the action seemed very smooth. Pretty accurate as well. My Wasr 10/63 and SAR-1 are equally reliable but feel clunkier.

May 7, 2019, 03:06 PM	#19
veprdude Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2019 Location: Texas Posts: 430	An important feature is a nice trigger without trigger-slap. There are a lot of good aftermarket ones available now besides the generic tapco G2. ALG makes some good ones I hear.

May 7, 2019, 05:48 PM	#21
7.62 man Senior Member Join Date: April 30, 2009 Location: Cyber-world USA Posts: 258	If you are wanting a special looking AK you can always build your own just the way you want it. I bought my first WASR 10 & then took it apart measured everything, then built my own off the measurements. That was back before flats or drilling jigs. I used a Coldsteel Solution blank & my measurements for the rivets & FCG holes. It turned out fairly good.