Brand new S&W 460 already has problems

[DirtyHarold]

I JUST got this gun back on Friday from S&W after sending it in the first time because the barrel finish quality was terrible. They sent it back with a new barrel, I was happy, came to our property to shoot it today and I only put 10 rounds of 460 through it and 5 rounds of 45 LC and it had problems.

First, I had to remove the spent casings 1 by 1 with pliers, and you could see where the casings were really scratched up from getting caught in the cylinder. It was difficult even using pliers. No way you could do it with fingers.

Second, the action would feel really stiff sometimes after each shot and on both full cylinders I shot, at one point the cylinder wouldn’t rotate when I cycled the action. I had to open the cylinder and close it tight again and then it would cycle. I couldn’t repeat this by dry firing, only when using 460 ammo. No issues with 45 LC.

It’s a Performance Center model so I thought the action was supposed to be top quality and here it is not working.

I’m really not happy. Going to call customer service on Monday.....again.



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[BBarn]

Was the 460 ammo factory loads or handloads?

[DirtyHarold]

Originally Posted by BBarn

Was the 460 ammo factory loads or handloads?

Factory 200 gr Hornady


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[Dave T]

I have read any number of times on the S&W Forum that "Performance Center" no longer means hand fitting or tuning. It's just a name they hang on certain models to separate them from the usual production guns. YMMV!

Dave

[DirtyHarold]

Originally Posted by Dave T

I have read any number of times on the S&W Forum that "Performance Center" no longer means hand fitting or tuning. It's just a name they hang on certain models to separate them from the usual production guns. YMMV!

Dave

That’s pretty annoying.


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[Targa]

I know it’s a pain in the rear but contact S&W again to send it back. They will get it straightened out or replace the gun.

[buck460XVR]

Sounds like your chambers are either dirty or rough.......why the hard extraction and scratches. Sometimes when extraction is sticky, the cases are pushed back against the recoil shield and because they don't slid forward again, drag on the recoil shield and make the action feel like your explanation.

Check the chambers for carbon rings from shooting the shorter .45 L.C. rounds. Could possibly be the problem.

[DirtyHarold]

Originally Posted by buck460XVR

Sounds like your chambers are either dirty or rough.......why the hard extraction and scratches. Sometimes when extraction is sticky, the cases are pushed back against the recoil shield and because they don't slid forward again, drag on the recoil shield and make the action feel like your explanation.



Check the chambers for carbon rings from shooting the shorter .45 L.C. rounds. Could possibly be the problem.

I considered this but the location where they are getting stuck at is pretty close to the base of the casings. Plus I really feel like one 45LC in each chamber shouldn’t make extraction so difficult you can barely do it with pliers.


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[LineStretcher]

I agree, it does sound like a cleaning issue. If you fire the shorter 45LC you will need to clean the cylinder and chambers before shooting the 460's. I just shot mine today and only had 45LC's and 454 Casull. There was a lot of carbon after shooting the 45LC so I brushed it out and then shot the 454's. Mine was fine with no problems. Mine is not the Performance Series and has the 8 3/8" barrel.

[TxFlyFish]

Before you send it back to S&W to straighten things out make sure your rail is straight as well and your scope can be zeroed. I have seen PC x frames with rails so canted the scope could not be zeroed

[TruthTellers]

S&W put a new barrel on it, so they test fired it to make sure it was working properly and probably didn't clean the chambers.

I'm inclined to believe they use .45 Colt for lower recoil so their test shooters can test guns 8 hours a day. I can't imagine shooting hundreds of rounds of .460 every single day, that sounds like a long term disability situation waiting to happen.

Clean your chambers. Cordless drill, brass brush, and use some Ed's Red cleaner while doing it. If after that you're still having extraction issues, send it back to S&W.

As for the cylinder locking up, that can happen with brand new revolvers when using a high pressure cartridge like .460. It's happened to me in brand new Ruger revolvers and it has to do with the firing pin getting stuck in the primer. Given the pressures involved, the primer is being forced back against the recoil shield very hard and the firing pins, likely because they're not polished smooth, are getting stuck.

With more shooting, the firing pin will smooth out over time.

[DirtyHarold]

Originally Posted by TruthTellers

S&W put a new barrel on it, so they test fired it to make sure it was working properly and probably didn't clean the chambers.

I'm inclined to believe they use .45 Colt for lower recoil so their test shooters can test guns 8 hours a day. I can't imagine shooting hundreds of rounds of .460 every single day, that sounds like a long term disability situation waiting to happen.

Clean your chambers. Cordless drill, brass brush, and use some Ed's Red cleaner while doing it. If after that you're still having extraction issues, send it back to S&W.

As for the cylinder locking up, that can happen with brand new revolvers when using a high pressure cartridge like .460. It's happened to me in brand new Ruger revolvers and it has to do with the firing pin getting stuck in the primer. Given the pressures involved, the primer is being forced back against the recoil shield very hard and the firing pins, likely because they're not polished smooth, are getting stuck.

With more shooting, the firing pin will smooth out over time.

There is no way that with as few rounds that went through this gun that carbon buildup is making it as hard to extract the casings as it is. I have to twist and pry at them with pliers to the point I am deforming some of them. I cleaned it before I shot it and literally only shot 15 rds total through it.

Also, the cylinder isn’t locking up...the mechanism isn’t rotating it. The hammer still functions fine but the cylinder doesn’t spin.



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[TruthTellers]

Originally Posted by DirtyHarold

There is no way that with as few rounds that went through this gun that carbon buildup is making it as hard to extract the casings as it is. I have to twist and pry at them with pliers to the point I am deforming some of them. I cleaned it before I shot it and literally only shot 15 rds total through it.

Also, the cylinder isn’t locking up...the mechanism isn’t rotating it. The hammer still functions fine but the cylinder doesn’t spin.



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Firstly, don't use pliers to pull cases out, use a brass rod or wooden dowel and a hammer and tap them out gently. You're asking for a scratched up gun using pliers.

Anyway, you don't know how much it was shot at the factory and it's best to know you've cleaned the chambers than to go through the process of contacting and sending it back to S&W only for them to tell you the chambers were dirty.

Do it to CYA and if after you've cleaned it and extraction is still an issue, you can tell them you had thoroughly cleaned those chambers before shooting it.

If the hand isn't rotating the cylinder when the hammer is being pulled back, you have problems. Send it back.

[jaguarxk120]

I would clean the gun, then just shoot the 460 rounds.

If problems are still there -- send it back!!

Remember those 460's operate Very close to 60,000 PSI.

[buck460XVR]

Loose extractor rod could cause the cylinder to bind also. I check mine every time I load a cylinder full. The "scratched" cases are a mystery unless you scratched the cylinders with the pliers(NOT the way to remove stuck cases!). Anything that would scratch the cases should be readily seen by eye in the chambers. My P.C. .460 has tight throats so I have to watch my reloads for sticky extraction. Many factory loadings have also been reduced since the introduction of the .460 because of sticky extraction. But....sticky extraction does not lead to scratched cases.

[DirtyHarold]

Originally Posted by jaguarxk120

I would clean the gun, then just shoot the 460 rounds.

If problems are still there -- send it back!!

Remember those 460's operate Very close to 60,000 PSI.

How will cleaning the gun make the cylinder start functioning normally?

You guys are missing the point that I cleaned the gun before I shot it....it had this issue within 15 rounds of shooting. 10 of those were 460 and each one had to be removed with pliers. How is it possible that by shooting only 15 rounds the casings got stuck THAT BAD?

Find me one other person who has had to remove they’re spent casings with pliers after shooting 15 rounds and calls it normal.


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[DirtyHarold]

I apologize if I seem frustrated, it’s because I am, but I’m not intending to direct it at anybody. Just looking to vent.


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[the possum]

I doubt this is causing your issue after only 15 rounds, but for future reference at least, you do need to take care to lube the cylinder pin pretty often with these big rounds. The pressure is so high they will blow fouling down through that tiny opening. I've noticed with my .454 the cylinder will be hard to turn after maybe 30-50 rounds. I take out the cylinder pin, and just wipe it off on my jeans & give it a drop or two of oil, and I'm back in business.

[BWM]

The 460 that my friend has has never any trouble with it I reload for him and I have shot it and never had that to happen. try different makes of the 460 to see if it does the same. good luck

[reddog81]

How many rounds of 45 Colt have you put through the gun in total? I doubt S&W cleaned out the cylinder while they had it and if you've put a bunch of rounds down range it might just need a good cleaning as mentioned in post #11.

I don't know anyone who has removed stuck cases with pliers because that is a bad idea. Prying on the cases until they are deformed is a sure way to mar the cylinder.

[BBarn]

It's hard to believe all five chambers are so rough as to make extraction that difficult. I suppose the extractor star could be misaligned and make extraction difficult, but that should be apparent.

It sounds like a residue problem or an ammo issue. As mentioned, the 460 operates at pressures far higher than most other revolver cartridges and therefore can have some additional issues. Before calling S&W I would clean the cylinder thoroughly and try some different 460 factory ammo (preferably a different brand). If the difficult extraction persists, I would take it up with S&W.

[Dave T]

To the OP - ask for your money back. The gun you are describing is a piece of crap.

Dave

[jaguarxk120]

By shooting both 460 and 45 Colt you may be causing your own problems.
Stick with just the 46good stat0 shells, then if the problem comes up you have a
good starting point.
Using two different shells just makes solving your issues all the more difficult.

[stinkeypete]

Sorry you have frustration with a new gun. It’s supposed to be fun, not frustrating.

There are presently three possible culprits:
1. The gun
2. The ammunition
3. Firing a combination of long case after firing shorter case

1a. Gun- as said above, get a 3/8 diameter wooden dowel from the hardware store and cut yourself a handy length. Support your cylinder well with a couple of soft 2x4 scraps and gently pound out stuck brass.

2a. Check the primers of your 460 brass to see if they have backed out above flush with the pocket. Maybe you are dragging primers which could stop cylinder rotation.

2b. Hopefully your 460 brass isn’t mangled from extraction. Check the fired brass for marks on the case or bulges, then measure overall case length to check fot stretch (calipers).

2c. Resize one piece of 460 brass. Check length but don’t trim. If it’s really stretched after one shot there is a problem with the brass or the chambers.

3. Use your resized brass (or an unfired round) to carefully “feel” your chambers for roughness or sticky spots.

Right now, no one can say where the problem is. I hope it’s a bad batch of ammunition, we just can’t tell.

Get another box of factory ammo of a different manufacturer.

Scrub your cylinders really really well. Super scrubbing.
Go to the range and shoot the new 460 ammunition.
If that sticks, it’s the gun. If no sticking then
Shoot the old ammunition. If no sticking, it’s a dirty cylinder.
If the old factory ammo sticks, it’s that ammo.

Having an ammunition go-no go gauge would be handy to have around and they are cheap, although if the ammunition is very undersized it can stick hard. My Dad once fired a cylinder of .44 magnum in one of his Ruger Blackhawks by mistake. They were stuck tight. (Talk about “ruger only” loads...)

Here’s something I’ve been known to do on new revolvers that are a little rough or new-to-me revolvers: take a bit of once fired brass that will slip in the cylinder. You might need a piece of resized brass. Hot glue an unsharpened pencil in to the case. Now you have a “honing” tool to use with some flitz metal polish to gently clean badly gunked cylinders. Obviously don’t overdo this! Just a few plunges and twists to clean carbon, not polish metal.

If it turns out to be the gun, give S&W a chance to make it right.

[Onward Allusion]

I just gotta point out that if this was a Taurus 513 instead of a S&W 460, almost every single one of you would have told the OP to send it back immediately. Based on what the OP described, it's a lemon.