35/30 win, who has one?

[tdoyka]

i have a winchester m94(made in 1972) in 35/30. it used to be 30-30 but JES Reboring took care of that. i have a 200gr rcbs fn gc and 12ish lbs of 2400 and 3ish lbs of rel7 that i can shoot. i think that the 2400(with/without dacron) will be best at the velocity i choose(1700fps). i can take it up to 2000+fps(rel7) but the deer don't know the difference,but my shoulder will!!! i shot a buck and two does with my 444 marlin and 300gr fn gc with 24.0gr of 2400/dacron and it was going 1624fps.

the 35/30 is about the first wildcat cartridge. it will be slightly behind(velocity) the 35 remington. i'm told that 30-30 and 32 win spl that were "shot out", were rebored to 35/30 win(.358" ). mine is rebored to .359".

my m94 in 30-30 has killed many deer. but 20-25 years ago, i gave the m94 a retirement(safe queen). it was the first buck and first doe i killed. it was first reloaded round too. but i was basically bored of the 30-30, so i gave her my retirement. then all of the sudden, i was interested in wildcat/obsolete cartridges, like the 30-40 krag and the 9.3x57 and 20 vartarg and.... well i gots this 30-30 and JES can do a wildcat, so........i sent to him and in 3 weeks(1 week to get her, 1 week to rebore, 1 week to get her back) i got a 35/30 win. i have a couple hundred of 30-30 brass, but since this is a "new" cartridge, i ordered 250 pcs of starline 30-30 brass. i also got a 35/30 reloading dies that is CH4D. i have done a 100 pcs of brass and all that is left is to load them up. i am going to try 16.0 thru 20.0gr of 2400/dacron to see if it is safe(it should be, i've read that 23.0gr of 2400 is safe, but i don't believe it until i try it). i am going off of lyman's #49 reloading book in 35 remington.

well anyway, who has a 35/30?

http://www.35caliber.com/

https://www.ch4d.com/

[Tony Z]

Dayam Pennsyltucky goomers (DuBois is called home for me).

Keep us posted-sounds like you're in fer some fun!

[jmr40]

i'm told that 30-30 and 32 win spl that were "shot out", were rebored to 35/30 win(.358" ). mine is rebored to .359".

I can't imagine anyone shooting a 30-30 enough to wear out a barrel.

But if you like the concept of just being different then you've done it. To be honest I've not heard of this conversion before, but it makes sense.

[Targa]

Never heard of it until now

[Scorch]

Used to be an option if you rusted out a 30-30 barrel, but it never really got any traction. Appropriate 35 cal bullets were hard to find even 30 years ago, and a new barrel from Winchester was about $20 back in the 1980s. Read about it, even saw one once, but it's an odd bird.

[105kw]

I called my Uncle and asked him.
His comment was, it mostly used .35 Remington bullets, or cast.
And was rebored by people dissatisfied with .30-30.

I can't ever remember seeing one.

Should be fun to play with.

[Tony Z]

Wearing out a .30-30 barrel? I tried many years ago, but without success! I had my Model 94 and a .30-30 barrel on my TC Contender. Shot hundreds of very hot loads through both: for the Model 94, one in the chamber and one in the magazine tube to prevent accidently firing a round ahead of another.

This was when I first started reloading and hunted every available moment. Didn't have much cash to buy other firearms, but had fun with what I had!

[Jim Watson]

I read about it in my first or second Gun Digest, maybe 1960. Ken Waters thought it a wildcat that would be worth standardizing.

[ThomasT]

You might enjoy this read. CE didn't really push the round very hard but still gives his experience with the round. And I guess it is possible to wear out a 30-30 or maybe just worn from too much cleaning from the muzzle.

https://www.hensleygibbs.com/edharri...nchester94.htm

Notice in the article he states that 2400 and Re7 were disappointing with 200gr bullets.

[tdoyka]

Originally Posted by Tony Z

Wearing out a .30-30 barrel? I tried many years ago, but without success! I had my Model 94 and a .30-30 barrel on my TC Contender. Shot hundreds of very hot loads through both: for the Model 94, one in the chamber and one in the magazine tube to prevent accidently firing a round ahead of another.

This was when I first started reloading and hunted every available moment. Didn't have much cash to buy other firearms, but had fun with what I had!

my guess in the "shot out" barrels is either the barrels were pitted or they'd try to do something new.

[IMG][/IMG]
left to right
35/30-30 starline brass casing
200gr rcbs fn gc
35/30-30 win with 200gr fn gc
30-30 with 165gr ranch dog
165gr ranch dog

CH4D makes them. its $116 s/h included.
https://www.ch4d.com/

i chose the 35/30 for the long neck. i can use 200-280gr boolits, while the 35 rem tops out at 220+gr boolits because of its short neck.

[Paul B.]

I posted this for you over on Handloader's Bench.

"Guess no one here has one. You might try looking over at CAST BOOLITS as see if anyone over there has one. Maybe the Cast Bullet Assc. site might show some data. I saw an article some time back and it might have been in an American Rifleman or the magazine put out by the Cast Bullet Assc., I just don't remember for sure which one.

This took a while to find. It's from the 4th ed. Cartridges of the world.
200 gr. Jacketed 4198 25.0 gr. 1925 FPS Approx. .35 Rem.
208 gr. cast GC 4198 25.0 gr 1893 FPS RCBS #35-200-FN* (your bullet I believe)
210 gr. cast plain base 15.0 gr. WW630 (obsolete powder) 1078 FPS Lyman #35875
245 cast GC 30.0 gr. H335 1770 FPS Lyman #358318*
282 gr. cast GC 28.0 gr. H335 1700 FPS Lyman 359272
292 cast GC 33.5 gr. WW748 1618 FPS Hoch #359272 nose pour mold target load

*I have those two molds.
Best I can do for you. Be advised that the 4198 powder may be the earlier DuPont version. In theory they should be the same but I have found that the IMR version of DuPont's powders have proven to be slightly faster burning in my rifle. Those loads should be considered maximum.
Paul B.

[tdoyka]

yesterday i fired the 200gr fn gc and 16.0 - 20.0gr of 2400/dacron in my 35/30. it werked fine but i forgot the chrony!!!!! i should've put up a target(i fired at a 3"x3"x1" piece of steel painted fluorescent orange ) but i was more interested in the loads and my face (rofl) !!! the 16.0, 16.5, and the 17.0 of 2400 had soot on their cases, while the 17.5 thru 20.0gr did not. (the cases are 30-30 starline necked up to 35/30.) i also think that i can go up 2 - 3gr of 2400, but stupid :P "forgot" his chrony and now i don't know if the loads achieves 1700-1800fps. dang stupid, i should fire him. (rofl)

shooting wise, i have a hard time on open sights, esp at 100 yards. a williams peep sight is my next move. but anyway i'll say that i did 50-60% on the orange painted steel. the rifle wasn't on a rest, it was on a tripod. and i was using my ol' kentucky windage!!! i had to raise the rifle up to put her on the target, she was 5 or 6" low and she was on the left/right. i was shooting her in a sleeveless t shirt and i could feel no recoil, or at least just a little itty bit of recoil. i shoot 5 shot strings and i couldn't feel the barrel heating up. 5 minutes after the string, i would shoot again. i should have stupid (rofl) check for powder residue in the barrel after each string, but i checked it afterwards, she was clean.


i should've rebored her years ago, i've forgotten how much fun the m94 is.

[tdoyka]

this afternoon i fire formed the 35/30 and the williams fp sight in. . i was using a 200gr fn gc and 20.0gr of 2400/tuft of dacron that goes 1726fps avg. my groups ranged from 1 3/4 - 2 1/2" groups at 100 yards(5 shoots/benched). i would run 3 shots at 3/4 - 1 1/4" at 100 yards. JES Reboring has another life long customer!!!!

i guessed that 20gr of 2400 was around 1700fps and danged if i'm right. that will be enuff for deer. i'm going to go 21 - 22gr of 2400, just to see if it goes up to 1800fps. but i think that 1726fps and an average 2 - 2 1/4" at 100 yards will be hard to beat. my average shot will be 50+/- yards at the deer/black bear.

[baddarryl]

Good read! Thanks!

[cjwils]

I doubt if 30-30 barrels were "shot out", but early 30-30s may have been used with corrosive ammo. Using that ammo and not immediately doing an adequate cleaning could ultimately produce a ruined bore. Hence the interest in re-boring.

[gwpercle]

Impressive performance , thanks for posting info .

I have a an NRA soft cover publication titled "Cast Bullets" Col. E. H. Harrision USA (ret),
a publication of the National Rifle Association of America , 1979 .
On the cover there is a target showing two neat tidy 5 shot groups , one is .97" the second is .88" , 100 yards,
35/30-30 Win. , Rem. 788, 290 gr. Hoch, 32.9 WW748 . On the bench below the target is a Lyman furnace, cast bullets , gas checks , moulds , a dipper , prepped brass and loaded rounds... I was so interested in this 35/30-30 , I love heavy cast bullets and the 30-30 . Was I disappointed when not anywhere in the book was an article or any information on this 35/30-30.... All over the cover and not one word about it !
I guess that old adage about not being able to tell a book by it's cover is true.

At least your posting and the other comments has shed some new light on this forgotten
wildcat . You got me thinking about it again... a single shot rifle would be cool !
Gary

[stagpanther]

Sounds very interesting, though I already have a 30-30 that works just fine, but since I also shoot 35 whelen and 358 win--why not?

[Mike Irwin]

"I can't imagine anyone shooting a 30-30 enough to wear out a barrel."

Is it possible to wear out a .30-30 barrel?

Yes, it was!

And people used to do it!

Gotta remember, folks, ammunition has changed dramatically in the 100+ years since the 1894 and it's various cartridges were introduced.

First off, even though the .30-30 was introduced with smokeless powder, those new powders burned quite hot, FAR hotter than black powder.

The challenges presented by the new smokless powders demanded a new type of steel that would be able to better withstand the heat -- nickle steel.

The new barrel steel came with challenges of its own. First, Winchester had problems getting enough of it (the military was sucking it up at a huge rate for its rifles), and it was also a LOT more difficult to machine.

Winchester didn't get that all sorted out in time to introduce the .30-30 and .25-35 in 1894 with the rifle. The smokeless powder rounds were introduced in 1895, and the first rounds for the 1894 were the black powder .32-40 and .38-55.

Then, too, there was the fact that many of the early powders left an acidic residue in the barrel. Ordinarily this would have been such a big issue, as the barrel residue was dry, and acids don't really work on steel all that well unless they're in solution.

So, no problem, right?

Wrong.

The primers in these old rounds were made with potassium chlorate. On firing, the chlorate changed composition to leave potassium chloride residue in the bore.

Potassium chloride is the kissing cousin to sodium chloride, regular table salt, and it's just as hygroscopic as table salt, so there's your moisture to put all those nice acidic compounds into solution.

So yeah, shot out barrels were a think in the early days of the .30-30, and the .35-30 was a way of salvaging them.

These days, chances of shooting out a .30-30 barrel are slim. But in 1900? It was a real possibility.

[TX Nimrod]

You don’t need corrosive powders to “wear out” a barrel. Any barrel which must be cleaned from the muzzle can be ruined by indiscreet cleaning, a well-know and verified phenomenon. Once the muzzle is washed out by “cleaning” the accuracy suffers, and the barrel is called “worn out”.

I had my M94 rebored to .38-55 by P. O. Ackley in the late 70s. Shot a few deer with the Hornady 220FN; it was lots of fun with cast at the range.


.

[briandg]

If my memory serves correctly, those powders back then also eroded barrels badly. You had a combination of so many things back then and even into the post wwii years that any barrel that wasn't cared for well and spent a lot of time in use would have been ruined. Even someone who only went through a few rounds a year would still have nitrate residue in the barrel along with other things, right? Most of the early stuff was simple guncotton based.

[briandg]

Nothing wrong at all with the 35-30. 200 grains at a bit less than 2,000 fps is a killer. That is going to work far better, imo, than the .44 magnum at 1,200 in 240 grain in a revolver. I don't know what the ballistics would be like, but I suspect that it should be able to sight in at 75 yards and stay on target out to 200. No, I see no point or reason to hunt with one outside of 200 yards. That's what people will do anyway, how can I stop them or even approve of it?

[tdoyka]

the area in which i hunt 60 some yards IS a long shot. the deer like to go around 30-35 yards next to my stand. the 200gr fn gc will put deer on table.

my 44 mag is a ruger sbh with 4 5/8" barrel.i use a 44 spl with 255gr keith boolits and some unique(skeeter load) that goes 800fps. i have taken deer with it out to 50 yards or so. i feel(which you do or don't) that i could go 100 yards or more with the skeeter load.

[briandg]

I know that deer can be taken at 100 yards with a .44 magnum handgun by a very skilled hunter. A very skilled hunter can take deer at fifty yards or longer with a bow.

[tdoyka]

i was rubishing around my reloading desk and i found my 35/30 second target. the first target was about the lead meeting barrel, they got along pretty good. i shot the second target when the late one evening trying to zero it in.

35/30 in win m94
williams peep sight
100 yards
200gr fn gc (made from the bull shop!!!)
20.0gr of 2400/.6+/-gr of dacron


sorry about the picture, its all wavy.

if you can see number 3, right of number 3 is two shots....i'm must've ate carrots for supper because 2 in the hole using peep sights is phenomenal for me!!!

number 5 is only one shot, daylight was waned and kaput!!! but it was on center, so i go with that. i'd show more targets, but i threw them away.