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Old Yesterday, 12:23 AM   #76
RickB
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Hitting with a handgun is hard enough under ideal conditions, so why make it any harder than necessary?
If you take into account all of the "1911" variations available today, you can find one that does just about whatever you need a handgun to do, while being easier to shoot well than the available alternatives.
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Old Yesterday, 07:38 AM   #77
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It is by far the standard in which all others are measured, and the simple fact that everyone out there makes a 1911 in some form or another speaks for itself.
458, Just because a product is copied by others or still being manufactured does not mean it is an up to date product.
What this speaks to is a lot of folks buy an old obsolete pistol out of misplaced nostalgia.
FN/Browning recently came to their senses and stopped making Hi-Power pistols.
What exactly is the 1911's record? Seems to me from a lot of what I have read about 1911s is they often need a great deal of gun-smithing to be reliable.
Walther's new all steel target pistol is something you can check out.
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Old Yesterday, 07:56 AM   #78
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I think it has been over stated, but i’ll pile on.

Speed - Back before I could put a gun in your right hand and enough cash in your left to overcome the guns short comings, almost every pro shooter used a 1911 and then a 2011. This is because the gun has good ergonomics and the best trigger when tuned to you.

Accuracy- Bullseye has never been about the money, but 1911’s. Even though we can machine guns better now and ge good accuracy locking up on the hood, 1911’s still lock up tighter when fit right. Plus more people know how to fit them.

Accuracy at speed - The really do point very well. Few new dangled guns, can be fired as the sights are coming into view and make a zone hits. I suppose this is personal, but it has proven personally good for many folks.

Holster selection - Lots of new fangled guns with 1 holster. Everybody makes a 1911 holster.
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Old Yesterday, 10:55 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P5 Guy
What this speaks to is a lot of folks buy an old obsolete pistol out of misplaced nostalgia.
Old does not necessarily equate to obsolete.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merriam-Webster Online
Definition of obsolete

a : no longer in use or no longer useful an obsolete word
b : of a kind or style no longer current : old-fashioned an obsolete technology farming methods that are now obsolete
The 1911 is still widely used (even by certain elements of U.S. armed forces), so (a) doesn't apply. And, with myriad manufacturers churning out 1911s on modern CNC machining centers and people buying hundreds or thousands of new 1911s every day (a few years ago Kimber alone sold 40,000 1911s in one year) it's clear that (b) also doesn't apply. The 1911 design is obviously old (age does that) but it's hardly obsolete.

I don't choose to carry 1911s out of nostalgia. I choose to carry a 1911 because I shoot it well, I understand it, and I can rely on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by P5 Guy
What exactly is the 1911's record? Seems to me from a lot of what I have read about 1911s is they often need a great deal of gun-smithing to be reliable.
Maybe you shouldn't believe everything you read. Some 1911s need tuning up to be reliable. Many (I would like to say "most," but I have no statistics to quantify that) do not. From what I've seen through years of lurking on a couple of 1911-oriented forums is that many 1911s that were reliable when purchased miraculously become unreliable when their owners start throwing aftermarket parts at them to "improve" them. I have bought a couple of such 1911s from consignment sales. Surprise, surprise! When I undid the "improvements" and restored them to original configuration, they somehow became reliable. I don't think that's a coincidence, especially when it has happened more than twice.
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Old Yesterday, 12:54 PM   #80
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That's off the top of my head. I'm sure there have been others. I can't think of any other handgun that even comes close to having been made in so many calibers/chamberings.
Better put the T/C Contender on the top of your head for "made in so many calibers/chamberings", as it is significantly more then the dozen you list for the 1911 design.

OK, so its not a repeater, but it IS a handgun.
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Old Yesterday, 02:07 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P5Guy
Seems to me from a lot of what I have read about 1911s...
I think I see the problem. Reading might be fundamental, but it is a poor substitute for doing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmr40
But the legend of the 1911 is more mythology than fact. Much of what Cooper wrote about both the 1911 and 45 ACP was fiction, but at least 2 generations of shooters were heavily influenced by what he wrote.

For many types of competition a 1911 is still as good as it gets. But as a viable gun for LE, HD, and military use it was passed by 70 years ago
Interested in Cooper's fiction tales WRT the 1911. I can not claim to being a devotee of Cooper's and thus have read neither the entirety nor even a large portion of his work. Of his stuff I have read, I did not come across any fiction. Facts, opinions, observations, and such--many times delivered in a rather high tone--but no fiction I can recall. Do fill us in. Citing particular books and/or articles would help me avoid wasting my time with them. Life is too short for cheap beer or non-fiction books that peddle untruths.

Don't tell the LEOs I saw working for agencies where the LEO must provide his own handgun that the 1911 is no longer a viable LE gun. You might hurt their feelings.

As for HD, a 1911 is the only handgun in the house (chambered in a service cartridge) that fits everyone's hand well enough to shoot well and does not pain the recoil-sensitive. Glocks, SIGs, HKs, S&W M&P, SW revolvers, and others have all failed one or more of the tests. And that is why there is always a GM 1911 in the quick access safe we all have the code for.
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Old Yesterday, 05:01 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P5 Guy
What this speaks to is a lot of folks buy an old obsolete pistol out of misplaced nostalgia


If it's obsolete, so is every other locked breech, box magazine fed, short recoil operated pistol with a tilting barrel and forward slide dismount on the market...because they all operate exactly the same way.

Cheers
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Old Yesterday, 06:11 PM   #83
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Two reasons:
1.) It works well for It's intended purpose .
2.) They Sell . A buddy who owned a gun shop told me he had no trouble selling every 1911 he could lay his hands on , regardless of the maker , regardless of the selling price point . From basic army issue to tricked out for competition .
" I wish I could get railroad boxcar full of 1911's , I could sell them all easily !" were his exact words . Guess what he carried.... a small 1911...and he had his choice of every gun made .
Gary
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Old Yesterday, 06:17 PM   #84
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Why do people swear by 1911's? Because they're 1911's, no other reasoning is necessary.
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Old Yesterday, 06:37 PM   #85
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Quote:
Why do people swear by 1911's?
Quick question, and I'm not assuming you're one of these people - but why do people swear by 1911's?
While I don't know that I would say "swear by" this thread is playing out in classic gun forum comments about the Model 1911 .45 ACP. Making things simple some people like the gun, others do not like the gun and some people have no opinion one way or the other. There are other guns which come to mind such as the M1 Garand where some like the gun as others condemn it as an overweight relic from years gone by, just like a Model 1911 pistol. This comes down to each having their own preferences as to what a well made gun is about as much as a fine looking gun verse an ugly gun when the beauty rest in the eyes of the beholder.

My rifles, just like my handguns are an extension of my personal taste, much like my motorcycle or my trucks.

I like my 1911s, all of them. I like the way they shoot, I like their reliability and I like the way they look. I only need to satisfy myself and what anyone else thinks is really of no consequence to me. I have a small collection of Colt Series 70 guns to include several Gold Cup flavors, I simply enjoy them and shooting all of them. I liked the gun long before the Marine Corps handed me one and obviously still like them very much.

Currently would like to find an early Colt Series 70 in the 9mm chambering as I already have a nice 38 Super 1911.

Ron
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Old Yesterday, 06:47 PM   #86
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I love the 1911 but I also suspect all who do
are idiots. But we're happy.
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Old Yesterday, 07:02 PM   #87
Jim Watson
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Is there a gun on the market that fits 1911/1911A1/Gov't Model specifications 1911-1969?
Lots of things called 1911s that don't fit the bill.
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Old Yesterday, 07:40 PM   #88
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I don't know if I swear by 1911s, but I have a lot of confidence in at least one, my S&W 1911 SC-E. Aside from a manufacturing issue with the slide stop, which I solved within the first 450 or so rounds, that 1911 has been essentially flawless in operation, with the only malfunctions attributable to my own handloads, before I understood the importance of OAL.

It is by far the most accurate semi-auto handgun I own out to 35 yards. And of the compact guns I own, it's easily the most comfortable concealed carry sidearm I've ever worn.

And we don't have to get into looks. No plastic gun can compare to that hunk of blue-black steel.

I love how people that have never owned a 1911 or owned only a couple lower-end examples will loudly claim that 1911s can't be reliable. Which is how I know they've never owned a good one.

My SC-E, outside of the slide stop, is one of the most reliable guns I've ever owned in 30 years, period. That's including two Glocks, a couple SIGs, several Rugers, a Walther, three or four Berettas, etc.

I've taken it to training classes, shot as many as 500 rounds over 6 hours outside here in PHX, on windy, very dusty days/evenings, and never had a single malfunction. One of my instructors wanted to prove a point, and had us drop our pistols in the dust before beginning the class. He confided in me afterwards that he fully expected my 1911 to fail within a few minutes. He wanted to know what I'd had done to it to make it so reliable, and didn't believe me at first when I told him I'd done nothing.

This is a stock gun, btw. No after-market gunsmith ever 'tuned' my 1911. And yet, miraculously, it just runs, regardless of what ammo I put through it.

My handloads being the only rounds that got sticky, and once I shortened the rounds by about 4/1000s/inch, that problem went away.

However, if you do buy/shoot one that's not well-built, the 1911 pattern can give the shooter fits. Everything is suspect, including the mags, the lock up, the recoil spring, the slide/frame fit, etc.

Which is probably where the myth of 1911 "unreliability" comes from.
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Old Yesterday, 09:40 PM   #89
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A 1911 is kind of like a Harley Davidson. It will run forever, and you can get parts for it anywhere, but it helps if you know how to work on it a little bit.

It's my favorite semi-auto, and I have been carrying them and shooting them for over 40 yrs. I can appreciate the modern semi's like Glocks, others, and own quite a few of most of them.

My favorite carry gun, is a 1911 lightweight commander, and I still carry it, more then any other pistol, but not exclusively, as I also carry more modern guns usually when I want to carry a lighter smaller gun, but the Lightweight Commander is still my favorite.

And Personally, I like the 45acp round a lot. With the 40 cal being my second favorite caliber and for that caliber I will choose the Glock 22, In 9mm I will choose the Glock 17 or the smaller Smith and Wesson shield, usually. But in 45acp, yeah it's always a 1911 for me.

But I am not blind to the 1911's weaknesses or strengths, and for me, it's still my first choice, most of the time. Just like I know that my Harley's are probably not the best motorcycles in the world, but it's hard to get away from them. But I know how to keep them both running, and they will all out last me.
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Old Yesterday, 10:11 PM   #90
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Quote:
I love how people that have never owned a 1911 or owned only a couple lower-end examples will loudly claim that 1911s can't be reliable. Which is how I know they've never owned a good one.
Just because a gun is low end doesn't mean it's unreliable. Rock Island Armory guns are very, very reliable.
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Old Today, 01:34 AM   #91
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Well......

I came to 1911's late -- tried almost every other platform and then "just to have one" bought a Sig GSR 1911 back when that was a new thing. Went out and said dam I can hit with this thing better than anything else. I had a lot to learn still about many things 1911 and non-1911 but dam I became a quick believer in a quality trigger and a slim frame for comfort.

For me the 1911 is the most like other weapons one might own, say a rifle or a shot gun -- there is a safety, and there is a good, somewhat "light" if we are judging based on revolvers or DAO only pistols, trigger that you keep your finger off until you are on target and ready to engage. Why anyone would want a trigger that is NOT this way is beyond me unless it serves a need as in making a cylinder spin as on a revolver. It amuses me to no end folks talk about "safe triggers" in carry or issue guns and look upon the 1911 as not suited then talk of a patrol carbine like say and M4 that has a trigger most similar to a 1911. What gives and I suppose I will never understand it.

A modern 1911 is reliable and durable, the cost will be higher than many things for sure but a good smith / sig / dan wesson among others is a very tenable option and one can go up from there in cost, quality and so on though much past some point and all you are being is finish appeal NOT actual durability or quality. I think a dan wesson is hard to beat for best value for the buck, but everyone has a favorite.

Yes older 1911's had less nice sights, and many were shot out, BUT guess what... cars did not go to 100k without major work back then either -- however having shot any number of old to very old 1911's it is shocking to me how good they were, though yes sights, ergonomics and so on need improvement. With modern machining and finishing / materials they are more durable than ever and to some degree more forgiving as they were built to last with frankly more metal in many places than is needed.

There are of course drawbacks to everything. On the 1911 it is weight, capacity, cost and need to know what you are doing for there are infinite ways to mess something up. I think about it this way --- if you want an aftermarket part for a 2010 BMW it's probably hard to go wrong -- there is not much out there and what there is is built to a close spec and made to work with a standardized factory product. If however you are looking for a chevy 350 part -- well that motor can be built mild to wild and you could really find yourself in a bad spot if you tired to put a race motor part in your street car. Likewise the 1911 had a million variant companies, calibers and specs and if you "threw together" a gun out of random parts your functionality might suffer. it is what it is BUT that does not ally to well built / sourced 1911's so it is more something to be aware of than to be discouraged by. In this way it could be said to be a victim of it's own success / popularity.

All of that being said my choice may not be another guys choice and that is fine. there are plenty of platforms out there and IF one wants the best platform for the lowest cost it's very possible the 1911 falls of that list quick.
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Old Today, 06:33 AM   #92
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Old Today, 08:16 AM   #93
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LOL! Why Do People Swear At 1911s
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