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Old March 15, 2015, 05:40 PM   #101
4runnerman
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stagpanther- right rifle for the right job. Which in this case is NOT a 308. I am a die hard 308 fan, but I also knows it's limits. 1000 yards for a Elk is beyond it's limits for sure. Maybe 7MM, or something bigger, not a 308.
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Old March 15, 2015, 05:41 PM   #102
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What gets me is that almost no one questions the fact that prairie dogs can be killed pretty easily at 500 yards, but they act like killing an Elk at 1000 is an impossibility. It is much easier to hit an Elk sized (vital area) target at 1k than it is to hit a prairie dog sized target at 1/2 K
There are more missed than hit
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Old March 15, 2015, 06:13 PM   #103
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I have said from the beginning the .308 is not powerful enough for predictable kills at 1k. What I said is hitting with the .308 at 1k is not nearly as hard as yall are making it out to be. When I hunt bean fields, I usually have the custom built 7 Rum. It has plenty of juice to take care of business at distance.
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Old March 15, 2015, 06:35 PM   #104
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What gets me is that almost no one questions the fact that prairie dogs can be killed pretty easily at 500 yards, but they act like killing an Elk at 1000 is an impossibility. It is much easier to hit an Elk sized (vital area) target at 1k than it is to hit a prairie dog sized target at 1/2 K.
My viewpoint is perhaps it's because to some hunters prairie dogs, coyotes, and pigs in Texas are considered a plaque and deserve to die. Whether or not they suffer before dying due to the wrong caliber for the job or the distance was too far for a lethal shot is of no regard. Wounding an elk by attempting a 1000 yard shot seems to reach out and touch that part of the brain that helps us to determine what is wrong or right according to our own ethics and standards of behavior
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Old March 15, 2015, 06:55 PM   #105
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This is copied from a post Bart B. made in the thread about the unbeatable 30-06.
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I don’t think so. Sierra gets the same accuracy with their bullets in today’s barrels as they did back in the 1960's in barrels made then.. Benchrest groups are still under 2/10th MOA at 100, 3/10ths at 200, 4/10ths at 300, 5/10ths at 600 and 6/10ths at 1000. The average group sizes are smaller and those tiny record ones are the result of all the rifle and ammo variables being at zero or cancelling each other out. There’s no way to tell which one made them so tiny, but the odds are in favor of cancelling them out. Recently, the average benchrest group sizes got smaller when they quit neck sizing their fired cases and properly full length sized them. That made their largest groups somewhat smaller; increased the odds of getting a very tiny one that sets a record.

Better jacket material available these days as enabled smaller caliber bullets to be longer and heavier with the same accuracy levels as shorter, lighter ones. Good examples are with bullets used in long range matches. It wasn’t until the late 1980's that 28 caliber, long and heavy match bullets shot as accurate as the 30 caliber ones. That was followed a few years later when 26 caliber ones came out, then later 24 caliber ones. Lighter bullets mean less bore axis displacement variables while they go through the barrel; one big reason why 24 caliber bullets are popular in 1000-yard bench rest matches. But their average accuracy down range is not much better than larger caliber ones. They all shoot somewhere under 6 inches at 1000 yards.
If the 308 is that accurate with such ease, why is it unacceptable to shoot game with it at such yards?
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Old March 15, 2015, 08:11 PM   #106
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dear lord, I'm flagging this dead horse for burial.

we are not talking about stationary targets at known ranges. we are talking about moving targets at unknown ranges. you are also talking about MATCHGRADE ammo and NOT HUNTING GRADE AMMO. using a 180gr accubond(just as a reference) with a muzzle velocity of 2600, do you have any idea the difference in drop between 975 and 1000 yards? 28 inches, that's 2 1/3 feet if your estimation of distance is off by 25 yards.
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Old March 15, 2015, 08:32 PM   #107
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That's why they call it a moon shot. : )
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Old March 15, 2015, 09:39 PM   #108
Art Eatman
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I don't see anything particularly new and different in the way of reasoning, for either view of Eliminating Elmer Elk at a thou.
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