1848 Whitneyville question(s)

stubbicatt · June 2, 2015, 01:04 PM

I've been lurking in the blackpowder forum for awhile now.

When I was 13 or 14 I bought a brass framed 1851 Navy revolver, which I used to shoot and enjoy. Haven't shot it in years. The wedge has dents in it from using a flat bladed screwdriver and mallet for removal. It looks ok overall, but the grips are rather short for my hands, and for other reasons, I've become excited at the prospect of a Uberti Whitneyville Dragoon. I've shot BPCR though not recently. So I have a passing familiarity with loading and shooting these revolvers, I'm not a complete neophyte.

I like the looks of the Whitneyville with the sort of fitted grips, as opposed to the squared off grips of subsequent models. I'm not entirely crazy about the oval bolt notches, as I guess the squared off notches of subsequent models are more functional.

1. Where would I find an inexpensive leather "slim jim" holster for a Whitneyville?

2. What range of powder charges give good performance/accuracy?

3. Should I use wonder wads and balls, wonder wads and conicals, or balls and grease or conicals and grease?

4. Will my No. 10 caps work, or will I need to find No. 11's?

5. Does the loading lever unspring and fall down when you shoot it as does the Walker?

6. Can one adjust the sights to shoot to point of aim once he has arrived at a suitably accurate load, or must one always hold under to compensate for the tendency of these revolvers to shoot high?

My uses for this revolver are simply informal plinking or target shooting in the National Forest.

Thanks in advance for your helpful advice.

Fingers McGee · June 2, 2015, 04:38 PM

Howdy stubbicatt. See below

Quote:

1. Where would I find an inexpensive leather "slim jim" holster for a Whitneyville? Cabelas, El Paso Saddlery, Bass Pro

2. What range of powder charges give good performance/accuracy?
Start with 40 grains fffg and work up or down from there to find the best loading

3. Should I use wonder wads and balls, wonder wads and conicals, or balls and grease or conicals and grease? Kind of a Ginger or Maryanne question. You'll get as may opinions as replies. Grease if any kind is messy. I prefer lubed felt wads & roundballs - and Maryanne

4. Will my No. 10 caps work, or will I need to find No. 11's? #10 Remingtons are IMNSHO the best overall cap to use. #10 CCIs are usually too small to work on anything. Remington and CCI 11s as well as RWS 1075s are viable options, Try a variety and see what works best for you

5. Does the loading lever unspring and fall down when you shoot it as does the Walker? Not having a Whitneyville, I can't say for sure. Stretching the spring to increase tension works with a wobbly lever.

6. Can one adjust the sights to shoot to point of aim once he has arrived at a suitably accurate load, or must one always hold under to compensate for the tendency of these revolvers to shoot high? If it habitually shoots high left, opening the sight notch in the right & deeper usually works.

My uses for this revolver are simply informal plinking or target shooting in the National Forest. Go out, experiment, make smoke & have fun.

45 Dragoon · June 2, 2015, 07:49 PM

What Fingers said!

Whitney is my favorite Dragoon but they all have gated conversions. I don't shoot c&b but Fingers knoweth what he speaketh !!!!

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

Bishop Creek · June 2, 2015, 10:06 PM

What Fingers said is very good advice. No. 10 Remington caps are the best. I too love the looks of the Whitneyville Dragoon. Going to get one someday. Here is what the oval notches on my Walker cylinder looked like after 60 shots:

45 Dragoon · June 3, 2015, 04:29 AM

BC,
The bolt timing is late causing the peening to locking notches. It needs to drop 1-1 1/2 bolt widths before the notch. Also, the spring tension is way too heavy!!

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

44 Dave · June 3, 2015, 06:36 AM

Mike, do you know anyone that can make that Dragoon work perfectly !!

stubbicatt · June 3, 2015, 07:00 AM

Bishop Creek, looks like you have installed Slixshot nipples on yours. How do you like them? How have they improved your revolver?

45 Dragoon, I see you offer smithing services on these revolvers. Do you recommend that I send it to you straightaway for tuning to avoid the deformation of the oval notches in the cylinder, and to rectify any other issues?

Thanks fellas.

toot44 · June 3, 2015, 07:56 AM

I got a R&D 45 long colt cylinder for mine. am having a great time shooting 5.2 grains of TRAIL BOSS in it for a load. best of all no clean up!!

45 Dragoon · June 3, 2015, 08:32 AM

Ha! Thanks Dave! Well maybe close . . .

Stubbicat, sure! Horse pistols are my favorite ! I'm doing 2 Walkers and 3 Dragoons as we . . . type! The service is listed on my site. Thanks for looking!

Toot44, I'm with ya on the cartridge thing! I have gated Kirst Conversions in all mine except my 5 1/2" tubed Remie. It keeps a 6 shot R&D in it .

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

Bishop Creek · June 3, 2015, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Bishop Creek, looks like you have installed Slixshot nipples on yours. How do you like them? How have they improved your revolver?

Yes, the SlixShot nipples work very well, #10 Remington caps fit perfectly and don't fall off into the action during firing.

Bishop Creek · June 3, 2015, 09:01 AM

Quote:

BC,
The bolt timing is late causing the peening to locking notches. It needs to drop 1-1 1/2 bolt widths before the notch. Also, the spring tension is way too heavy!!

Mike

I know, it needs a little work, maybe I'll send it your way soon.

toot44 · June 4, 2015, 12:37 PM

mine came with 2 cylinders in the box, it had the cap and ball cylinder in it and a pretty blue velvet bag with the R&D conversion in it already fitted to the gun, got it for $600.00 I didn't think it was a bad price?

stubbicatt · June 5, 2015, 06:44 AM

No not a bad price Toot44. I would think using the cartridge conversion cylinder would be challenging. I'd guess one must remove the wedge, pull the barrel, and remove the cylinder to recharge it. Then put it all back together.

45Dragoon, What exactly is involved in the installation of the Kirst gated conversion? I have read elsewhere that the frame of the revolver must be modified in the area of the capping indentation on the right of the recoil shield, among other things. Seeing the attractive finish on these Ubertis, I would be reluctant to have the frame cut on.

Thanks guys.

45 Dragoon · June 5, 2015, 08:21 AM

Stubbi,
The Kirst kits are drop in for the most part. It all depends on how you're going to use it. Lots of folks use it "part time" and switch back and forth with the c&b cyl. I set mine up to be permanent cartridge guns. That means the arbor, barrel/ cyl. clearance and timing are adjusted to the Kirst set up. And yes, the recoil shield is "scooped" to allow use of the gate. Not only is it historically correct and easy to do but it saves the wear induced by numerous take downs when loading and unloading. Mine are taken down maybe once every other month depending on range time. They only see smokeless powder. I'll try and post a pic,

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

stubbicatt · June 5, 2015, 06:51 PM

Do you need a "mil spec" hickory stick to eject the empties? Would be neat if an ejector rod could be fashioned to fit along side the barrel for that purpose.

Those two revolvers look really sweet. What did you do for the finish? I suppose the case hardening colors were ruined when you did the machining, yes?

45 Dragoon · June 5, 2015, 07:13 PM

Ha!
You could , but I use a large antique skeleton key with the "head" of the key bent 90 degrees and a length of brass rod attached to poke the empties out.
I will be putting an ejector rod on them after I get caught up with my customers.

A little touch up bluing to blend is all you need.
Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

Bishop Creek · June 5, 2015, 08:36 PM

Here is what I use to eject empties from my cartridge conversions. An Iver Johnson ejector rod I found on e-bay a few years ago and an anitque skeleton key with the teeth filed off.

stubbicatt · June 6, 2015, 07:00 AM

45 Dragoon... forgive my ignorance. If the frames are CCH, won't the touch up bluing look sort of out of place?

45 Dragoon · June 6, 2015, 09:24 AM

Stubbi,
If you do a bad enough job with the bluing, it should blend right in! (seriously)
A blotting or mottled technique. The thing is, it's a loading port. It's going to get fine scratches from use and it wil look perfectly normal because of what it is. Do mine really look that bad?

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

45 Dragoon · June 7, 2015, 05:01 AM

BC,
That key is exactly the key I used !! I stuck a brass tube on the end (up to the ring that acted as a stop). I'll post a pic.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

stubbicatt · June 7, 2015, 08:32 AM

Nah, 45 Dragoon, your revolvers really look nice. It is sometimes hard to tell from looking at a photo on the internet.

I can foresee a seldom used hex wrench, from the garage, with 90 degree bend in it in my future, once I "pull the trigger" on the dragoon. I shall call it my "tactical" ejector, and maybe dangle it from a string below the revolver for easy access! Sorta wrap it around the ramrod, and lock the ramrod into place.

45Dragoon, I have seen elsewhere where guys are loading longer brass for some (to me) obscure cartridge like 460 Linebaugh or the like with BP for their dragoons. My initial impression is that might be dangerous, but maybe it isn't. --Seeing that the cap and ball versions will hold a huge powder charge. Have you experimented with any of that?

45 Dragoon · June 7, 2015, 09:00 AM

Stubbi,
I have some 454 Casull brass and plan on extending the chambers for it (in my Dragoons). My reason is to get the bullet closer to the chamber mouth. Not to mention big guns need big brass!!!
Of course loading to 45 Colt pressures.

If I were doing that for the Walker, I'd use 460 S&W brass but for safe smokeless loads at 45 Colt pressures, there may be just too much space in the cartridge. I only shoot smokeless.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

Stubbi, did you get my pm?

June 3, 2015, 04:29 AM	#5
45 Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2013 Posts: 656	BC, The bolt timing is late causing the peening to locking notches. It needs to drop 1-1 1/2 bolt widths before the notch. Also, the spring tension is way too heavy!! Mike www.goonsgunworks.com Last edited by 45 Dragoon; June 3, 2015 at 04:36 AM.

June 3, 2015, 07:00 AM	#7
stubbicatt Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2007 Posts: 1,707	Bishop Creek, looks like you have installed Slixshot nipples on yours. How do you like them? How have they improved your revolver? 45 Dragoon, I see you offer smithing services on these revolvers. Do you recommend that I send it to you straightaway for tuning to avoid the deformation of the oval notches in the cylinder, and to rectify any other issues? Thanks fellas. Last edited by stubbicatt; June 3, 2015 at 07:08 AM.

June 3, 2015, 07:56 AM	#8
toot44 Member Join Date: November 25, 2012 Posts: 83	whitneyville I got a R&D 45 long colt cylinder for mine. am having a great time shooting 5.2 grains of TRAIL BOSS in it for a load. best of all no clean up!!

June 4, 2015, 12:37 PM	#12
toot44 Member Join Date: November 25, 2012 Posts: 83	walker mine came with 2 cylinders in the box, it had the cap and ball cylinder in it and a pretty blue velvet bag with the R&D conversion in it already fitted to the gun, got it for $600.00 I didn't think it was a bad price?

June 2, 2015, 01:04 PM	#1
stubbicatt Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2007 Posts: 1,707	1848 Whitneyville question(s) I've been lurking in the blackpowder forum for awhile now. When I was 13 or 14 I bought a brass framed 1851 Navy revolver, which I used to shoot and enjoy. Haven't shot it in years. The wedge has dents in it from using a flat bladed screwdriver and mallet for removal. It looks ok overall, but the grips are rather short for my hands, and for other reasons, I've become excited at the prospect of a Uberti Whitneyville Dragoon. I've shot BPCR though not recently. So I have a passing familiarity with loading and shooting these revolvers, I'm not a complete neophyte. I like the looks of the Whitneyville with the sort of fitted grips, as opposed to the squared off grips of subsequent models. I'm not entirely crazy about the oval bolt notches, as I guess the squared off notches of subsequent models are more functional. 1. Where would I find an inexpensive leather "slim jim" holster for a Whitneyville? 2. What range of powder charges give good performance/accuracy? 3. Should I use wonder wads and balls, wonder wads and conicals, or balls and grease or conicals and grease? 4. Will my No. 10 caps work, or will I need to find No. 11's? 5. Does the loading lever unspring and fall down when you shoot it as does the Walker? 6. Can one adjust the sights to shoot to point of aim once he has arrived at a suitably accurate load, or must one always hold under to compensate for the tendency of these revolvers to shoot high? My uses for this revolver are simply informal plinking or target shooting in the National Forest. Thanks in advance for your helpful advice.

June 2, 2015, 07:49 PM	#3
45 Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2013 Posts: 656	What Fingers said! Whitney is my favorite Dragoon but they all have gated conversions. I don't shoot c&b but Fingers knoweth what he speaketh !!!! Mike www.goonsgunworks.com

June 2, 2015, 10:06 PM	#4
Bishop Creek Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2011 Posts: 566	What Fingers said is very good advice. No. 10 Remington caps are the best. I too love the looks of the Whitneyville Dragoon. Going to get one someday. Here is what the oval notches on my Walker cylinder looked like after 60 shots:

June 3, 2015, 06:36 AM	#6
44 Dave Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2013 Posts: 584	Mike, do you know anyone that can make that Dragoon work perfectly !!

June 3, 2015, 08:32 AM	#9
45 Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2013 Posts: 656	Ha! Thanks Dave! Well maybe close . . . Stubbicat, sure! Horse pistols are my favorite ! I'm doing 2 Walkers and 3 Dragoons as we . . . type! The service is listed on my site. Thanks for looking! Toot44, I'm with ya on the cartridge thing! I have gated Kirst Conversions in all mine except my 5 1/2" tubed Remie. It keeps a 6 shot R&D in it . Mike www.goonsgunworks.com

June 5, 2015, 06:44 AM	#13
stubbicatt Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2007 Posts: 1,707	No not a bad price Toot44. I would think using the cartridge conversion cylinder would be challenging. I'd guess one must remove the wedge, pull the barrel, and remove the cylinder to recharge it. Then put it all back together. 45Dragoon, What exactly is involved in the installation of the Kirst gated conversion? I have read elsewhere that the frame of the revolver must be modified in the area of the capping indentation on the right of the recoil shield, among other things. Seeing the attractive finish on these Ubertis, I would be reluctant to have the frame cut on. Thanks guys.

June 5, 2015, 06:51 PM	#15
stubbicatt Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2007 Posts: 1,707	Do you need a "mil spec" hickory stick to eject the empties? Would be neat if an ejector rod could be fashioned to fit along side the barrel for that purpose. Those two revolvers look really sweet. What did you do for the finish? I suppose the case hardening colors were ruined when you did the machining, yes?

June 5, 2015, 07:13 PM	#16
45 Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2013 Posts: 656	Ha! You could , but I use a large antique skeleton key with the "head" of the key bent 90 degrees and a length of brass rod attached to poke the empties out. I will be putting an ejector rod on them after I get caught up with my customers. A little touch up bluing to blend is all you need. Mike www.goonsgunworks.com

June 5, 2015, 08:36 PM	#17
Bishop Creek Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2011 Posts: 566	Here is what I use to eject empties from my cartridge conversions. An Iver Johnson ejector rod I found on e-bay a few years ago and an anitque skeleton key with the teeth filed off.

June 6, 2015, 07:00 AM	#18
stubbicatt Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2007 Posts: 1,707	45 Dragoon... forgive my ignorance. If the frames are CCH, won't the touch up bluing look sort of out of place?

June 6, 2015, 09:24 AM	#19
45 Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2013 Posts: 656	Stubbi, If you do a bad enough job with the bluing, it should blend right in! (seriously) A blotting or mottled technique. The thing is, it's a loading port. It's going to get fine scratches from use and it wil look perfectly normal because of what it is. Do mine really look that bad? Mike www.goonsgunworks.com

June 7, 2015, 05:01 AM	#20
45 Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2013 Posts: 656	BC, That key is exactly the key I used !! I stuck a brass tube on the end (up to the ring that acted as a stop). I'll post a pic. Mike www.goonsgunworks.com

June 7, 2015, 08:32 AM	#21
stubbicatt Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2007 Posts: 1,707	Nah, 45 Dragoon, your revolvers really look nice. It is sometimes hard to tell from looking at a photo on the internet. I can foresee a seldom used hex wrench, from the garage, with 90 degree bend in it in my future, once I "pull the trigger" on the dragoon. I shall call it my "tactical" ejector, and maybe dangle it from a string below the revolver for easy access! Sorta wrap it around the ramrod, and lock the ramrod into place. 45Dragoon, I have seen elsewhere where guys are loading longer brass for some (to me) obscure cartridge like 460 Linebaugh or the like with BP for their dragoons. My initial impression is that might be dangerous, but maybe it isn't. --Seeing that the cap and ball versions will hold a huge powder charge. Have you experimented with any of that?

June 7, 2015, 09:00 AM	#22
45 Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2013 Posts: 656	Stubbi, I have some 454 Casull brass and plan on extending the chambers for it (in my Dragoons). My reason is to get the bullet closer to the chamber mouth. Not to mention big guns need big brass!!! Of course loading to 45 Colt pressures. If I were doing that for the Walker, I'd use 460 S&W brass but for safe smokeless loads at 45 Colt pressures, there may be just too much space in the cartridge. I only shoot smokeless. Mike www.goonsgunworks.com Stubbi, did you get my pm?