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August 21, 2017, 07:58 PM | #26 |
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WD-40 could be the cause. In the event he sprayed it on an open revolver cylinder or a loaded pistol magazine with rounds loaded, then the WD-40 could of killed the primers over time.
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August 21, 2017, 08:42 PM | #27 |
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I have two boxs 45/70 that's at least 75 years old,it's the old two piece box,shoots like it's supposed to. One box is black powder and one smokeless
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August 21, 2017, 10:59 PM | #28 |
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The longevity of ammunition depends on two things, the quality with which it was originally prepared, and the storage conditions is has lived through, since.
During the early 1970s, I fired a quantity of 1918 US military ammo, both .30-06 and .45 ACP. The cases were a dark brown. There was no visible corrosion. ALL fired normally. NO case failures. Had some Israeli stuff made 79-80 that had 7% fail to fire and 11% of the fired brass was cracked. I have some 1897 6.5x55 Swede ammo that has some of the brass cracked at the shoulder, some 100+ years after being packaged on stripper clips. Most likely due to powder degradation. And, its a fact, that while black powder is incredibly stable inside loaded rounds, smokless is not. Some is, some isn't. Even with proper storage conditions, it is POSSIBLE for the powder to breakdown, releasing nitric acid fumes, which attack the brass, and in extreme cases cause it to crack. How long does this take?? no one knows with certainty, because of the differences in powders used and the way they are made. Some last a century and more, some go bad in a few decades. Storage conditions absolutely play a big part in this as well. Modern militaries don't bother to test old ammo to see if it is still good, they just go by a pre determined date, and sell off anything too old. I have reloads that I made, with no special care taken for longevity, going on 40+ years old now. Last time I shot any of them, performance was identical to what they did when "new". I've got a few hundred rounds of "Tet offensive" ammo for my M14 (M1A) in an ammo can. I have complete confidence in the LC65 headstamped ammo working perfectly when/if I ever need it. Sometimes, you do get ammo that doesn't last. It happens. Of course, you won't know it until after the fact. Decades of proper storage doesn't worry me, at all. Unknowns do.
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August 22, 2017, 08:07 AM | #29 |
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Ten (10)l years.
Last edited by 243winxb; August 22, 2017 at 08:12 AM. |
August 22, 2017, 06:40 PM | #30 |
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Had some shotgun shells been sitting in my garage for well over 10 years. Temperatures ranging from below zero to well over 100 degrees. Took it out to the desert today and it worked perfect.
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August 23, 2017, 09:22 AM | #31 |
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Thank you for that link 243winxb.
Going to the SAAMI site helped me lose what little respect for them that I had still remaining...and no, that's not a joke. If you found them stating ammo shelf life was 10 years, I bow my head to your search skills, being much better than mine. I waded though dozens of pages, finding nothing relevant to the shelf life question, before giving up, disgusted. For me, it was like "the answer you seek is on the second from the bottom branch of a maple tree. Here's a roadmap, showing how to get to the forest..." Wandering lost in those woods was, however, an enlightening experience.... I have no doubt that a shelf life/storage life of 10 years is something that SAAMI would recommend. In my opinion, SAAMI seems to be about 2 things first and foremost. #1 safety, and #2 what is best for SAAMI and its members. And, I am not certain about which order those two are placed in.... I believe SAAMI would recommend a shelf life of 90 days, IF they thought they could get the public to accept it...
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August 24, 2017, 01:49 PM | #32 |
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I am pre-mid life, so I don't have any ammo that is too old... but I've never had any issues. I had some pretty gross 22 that sat in my car, then my garage, then I found it and it was 100%. I wouldn't trust old crusty ammo with my life, but I feel just fine shooting it on the range!
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August 24, 2017, 03:34 PM | #33 | |
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Quote:
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August 27, 2017, 03:25 AM | #34 |
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The two most important considerations for ammo storage is constant temperature and humidity. (Should not have to mention it here but ammo must be kept dry also).
I store thousands of rounds in my house. Ammo is kept in its original boxes and those boxes are loaded into plastic storage boxes with good, tight fitting covers. The temperature and humidity is kept at a constant setting all year round. The plastic keeps out the dirt/dust and dog dander. The one place not to store ammo is in a garage that is not temperature controlled. Every one of my of my magazines are loaded and in my very insulated, protected safe. My safe also is constant temperature and humidity controlled.
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August 27, 2017, 08:44 AM | #35 |
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I've never had ammo go bad, and I never store ammo where it is damp or hot. Years ago an LEO friend told me of a case where an elderly woman used a revolver for home defense, firing one round which made the attacker flee. The gun had sat loaded, at the bottom of her underwear drawer, untouched for over 50 years since her long deceased father had given her the gun for her safety.
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August 27, 2017, 10:24 AM | #36 | |
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44 AMP
Quote:
The 10 years comes from the Federal website. Last edited by 243winxb; August 27, 2017 at 11:09 AM. |
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August 27, 2017, 11:15 AM | #37 | |
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From Federal.
Quote:
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August 28, 2017, 06:53 AM | #38 |
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No one wants to argue with Federal?
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August 28, 2017, 08:32 AM | #39 |
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i have a huge cellar full of old ammo, mostly US milsurp. Recently inspected all that stuff.
My .45/70 military ammo made in 1880-1900 started having misfires in the mid 1960s. None of it fires today. None of my .30 caliber (Krag) military ammo fires. Most of the .30 caliber (.30-06) made during WWI was deteriorated badly and was recently destroyed. Kept samples with rare head stamps. One lot of .30 caliber (.30-06) manufactured in 1942 was deteriorating. Cases were cracking and corroding. The powder had that acrid smell. That ammo was destroyed. Recently fired rounds from all remaining lots of US WWII ammo on hand. All rounds fired. My Japanese 6.5mm and 7.7mm ammo is highly unreliable. |
August 29, 2017, 03:35 PM | #40 |
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Military ammo from anyone's wartime production should be considered "iffy" and that from defeated nations really "iffy", especially now that so much time has passed since WWII.
As I said earlier, I shot a batch of WWI ammo in the 70s, and all was good, but that's 40 years ago, now... The WWII stuff that was the "good standard" still in the 60s and 70s is almost another half century older now. And, I'm pretty sure the care that made ammo last a long time, wasn't a priority for wartime production, where the ammo was expected to be used or lost within a short period of years. Japanese Ammo is notoriously unreliable, even when it was relatively new, and none of it is new anymore. I remember a Tales of the Gun episode, maybe 10 years back, now, they did Japanese WWII guns, and had all the common machine guns, pistols and rifles, and even the rare SMG. And they were using Japanese WWII ammo. Every single gun had a jam or a misfire, except the bolt action Arisaka. The big thing with milsurp ammo is that there's no way of knowing how much care went into making it long term stable, and there's no way of knowing what it might have "lived through" in storage conditions, before we got it.
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August 29, 2017, 07:26 PM | #41 |
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One can only attest to storage conditions that began when he came to possess the ammunition.
Most of the .30 caliber military ammunition i have was obtained in 1970. There were two pickup loads of the stuff. It was stored in a cellar in WV until about 2000 when it was moved to OK and stored in a deep cellar in the woods. Wanted to shoot some old .30 caliber ammo so i picked a can of DM 42. Glad i did that. All the rounds in that can were in bad shape. The rounds in another can looked pretty decent except for some slight corrosion from inside the cases. The powder did not rattle in the cases when shook. Tore apart a round from the second can. The base of the bullet was green with corrosion and about half the powder adhered to the case. The inside of the case was also green. http://i.imgur.com/1qm5Ysh.jpg Last edited by thallub; August 29, 2017 at 07:34 PM. |
August 30, 2017, 12:37 AM | #42 | |
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Quote:
Ultimately the case will corrode and crack. A friend of mine bought 500 rnds of 7.62 NATO, untypically sight unseen. when he got it he was rather disappointed. Loose in a plastic bag inside a cardboard box, the stuff was dirty. Dirty as in dusty with sand in the bottom of the bag. Dingy but otherwise looked ok. I forget the headstamp letters (TZ or TZZ or something like that, we looked it up, apparently Israeli in origin) Dates were 79,80,81 We test fired 100rnds through one of his ARs. Just shooting the 200yd gong. Every round that fired worked fine, and I hit the gong with boring regularity. However, we has 11 failure to fire, and 9 of the fired cases cracked, at the head, inline with the case body. I pulled the rest of the bullets. Many of them had powder sticking in clumps to the base of the bullet and some corrosion was evident. I'm not a chemist, but I worked 15 years in what was the free world's largest nuclear chemical plant, so I know a thing or two about industrial batch chemical operations. Exactly how you process a batch of powder can determine if you can count on it being stable for 40 years, or 20, or even 10. And if you make powder that you're sure will last 40 years, you give it shelf life of 20.
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August 30, 2017, 07:14 PM | #43 |
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i managed the destruction of the US Army unserviceable ammunition from Desert Storm. Destroyed about 20,000 tons of ammunition including well over one hundred million rounds of small arms ammunition. The ammo dump was huge. The perimeter road was 46 kilometers long.
There was smalls arms ammunition in huge piles, in MRE cases and containers of all sorts. We initially destroyed all ammunition that could not be identified by lot number. As time went on we were ordered to destroy pristine small arms ammunition in original pack. i destroyed 5.56mm, .45 caliber, and 9mm ammunition made as late as 1989. Yeah, wished i had some way to get some home; especially that pallet of .22 Eley rifle match. Among the turned in small arms ammunition was huge quantities of .50 caliber ammunition manufactured in the mid to late 1940s. i was told that ammunition was stored in Germany. All that old .50 caliber ammunition looked good. Broke some rounds down; the powder looked good as well. This is me ready to light off a burn pit: http://i.imgur.com/lidd17w.jpg |
August 30, 2017, 07:21 PM | #44 |
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OMG, how was you able to do that without crying, I'd have been balling.
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August 31, 2017, 01:44 PM | #45 |
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That whole process should be criminal. Tax payers paid for it and the military, at the direction of a "president", destroyed it all instead of making it available to the public which would have made money instead of wasting it.
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August 31, 2017, 03:55 PM | #46 | |
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I can't disagree with you shootist, They probably did it "for safety"
At least I hope that's the lame excuse. I guess cause ammo is old, or they couldn't document where it came from better safe then sorry I suppose. But ya I just seen a store trying to sell .223 reloads with teh warning "SHOOT AT YOUR OWN RISK" up to 20% might be squib, over charged, etc, etc I stopped reading after 20% could squibs. Im sure what ever was destroyed was head and shoulders better.. Actually let me go see If I can hunt down the link again. EDIT: https://agbarms.com/products/seconds...nt=42872437512 Quote:
They're sold out so I hope no ones shooting this garbage. Last edited by JoeSixpack; August 31, 2017 at 04:01 PM. |
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