Why does everyone want tighter buck shot groups? - Page 2

Old Grump · March 2, 2010, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Yea, this thread is starting to repeat itself. As has been mentioned before, the counter to your argument is that if you're going to have all your shot enter as one mass you might as well use slugs or a rifle and go for the extra penetration.

In a HD scenario you aim probably won't be perfect, thus a little spread helps you get "close enough".

To each his own method though.

10' yes, 10 yards no. Reason for shot over slug is penetration of things I do not want to penetrate. Longest shot in my house is 8 yards, there won't be much spread but as all my shotguns show during play time there will be a spread. I'll leave the slugs and the 3 1/2" magnum loads for the guys expecting to be invaded by Tyrannosaurus Rex, 2 3/4" shells work for me at HD distances. I only use slugs for 100 yard practice before deer season because my shot guns are my back ups.

RMcL · March 22, 2010, 03:48 PM

If you want big patterns:

Load 12 gauge 3" Winchester #1 buckshot (.30" x 24 pellets) with an improved cylinder choke.
Result: 20" patterns at 25 yards.

If you want tight patterns:

Load 12 gauge 3" Dixie Tri-Ball (.60" x 3 pellets) with a full choke.
Result: 5" pattern at 50 yards.

Both loads fire the same weight of lead at the same velocity: 2.25 ounces at 1050 FPS.

johnwilliamson062 · March 22, 2010, 06:34 PM

I was using a rifled choke in my HD gun for a while. It gave me a pretty nice group at in house ranges.

I can see why you would want a tight pattern for hunting, but HD I want a big fat pattern.

Dave McC · March 23, 2010, 05:42 PM

Forensics experts have told me that the most effective buck patterns would be those that are about 8' across and hit the CNS.

My shotgun, choke and load will do the first part, hitting the CNS is up to me. And I've decades of practice at hitting small things,fast.

kenno · April 3, 2010, 12:48 PM

I live in a very remote area near Canada that in the past 2 years, has been 'adopted' by mexican drug cartels as an area to grow pot. For 2 years running the DEA has busted many BIG grow sites with-in a few miles of my home. Forestry workers have been told not to enter certain areas of public land. Mexicans driving rental cars with California License plates have been in the area alot. My neighbor was confronted at his home at 3AM by one trying to escape the law, and I have been confronted in the bush. The area near me has become a dumping ground for stolen vechicles with switched license plates. I carry a full choked shotgun with a pistolgrip stock loaded with buckshot as a defensive firearm so that I can put multible projectiles on target in a thick brush ambush enviroment at distances of 50 yards and more, a poor man's FA if you will. Hopfully this will enable me to break contact and safely retreat. I do not plan on being assainated like an AZ rancher without putting up a defensive fight!
For this I need a shotgun/ammo combo that produces very tight groups.

hogdogs · April 3, 2010, 12:58 PM

Kenno, Have you tried the same gun with a traditional type stock? I feel you could easily bring more to bear on the losers than with a PGO grip. Or are you using an AR type stock?
Brent

kenno · April 3, 2010, 01:09 PM

I'm not a fool, as I stated it is a pistol grip stock, not a pistol grip.

hogdogs · April 3, 2010, 01:13 PM

Ten Dash Four! I wasn't callin' you one... just clarifying...

Brent

Rampant_Colt · April 3, 2010, 03:40 PM

I want tight buckshot patterns because it reduces collateral damages and increases hit probability at longer ranges [if necessary] - not to mention that the terminal ballistics of a tight pattern of buckshot is devastatingly effective on bipedal assailants.

Try to figure out what the longest distance in your dwelling is, and pattern your shotgun at that distance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave McC

Forensics experts have told me that the most effective buck patterns would be those that are about 8' across and hit the CNS.

An eight-foot pattern?? you mean 8" inches?

Dave McC · April 3, 2010, 03:50 PM

8 inches.....

zippy13 · April 3, 2010, 03:52 PM

Once again, we had a brief failure to communicate about stock types:

kenno · April 3, 2010, 10:04 PM

Once again, we had a brief failure to communicate about stock types:

__________________

The SxS is indeed a straight griped stock (just like my Webly Scott)
The PGO is correct
The 'detached pistol grip'? It looks attached to me!
The 'pistolgrip or grip stock'? Where did you find this, England? it's a semi-pistolgrip stock and has been for at least 60 years, heck they made 1903s with semi-pistolgrip stocks!
Oh wait; I see your from Kalifornia, never mind.

StuntManMike · April 4, 2010, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Once again, we had a brief failure to communicate about stock types:

__________________

The SxS is indeed a straight griped stock (just like my Webly Scott)
The PGO is correct
The 'detached pistol grip'? It looks attached to me!
The 'pistolgrip or grip stock'? Where did you find this, England? it's a semi-pistolgrip stock and has been for at least 60 years, heck they made 1903s with semi-pistolgrip stocks!
Oh wait; I see your from Kalifornia, never mind.

Agreed.

Straight/English stock is what I would call it too.
The PGO is also correct terminology.

On the other hand, I refer to the stock on the 1100 as a Pistol Grip Full Stock
The Wingmaster has a conventional stock

hogdogs · April 4, 2010, 09:49 AM

Kenno, Zippy's 10-20 has nuttin to do with the terms used on the forum!

Actually, I bet when he is amongst his "peers" at the field, they use verbage and nounage (my word) properly and without abbreviations such as PGO...

When I first joined a few years ago, the discussions on stocks would fling off on a tangent as too many did not know how to describe what they held...

Some of us tried to come up with ways to help those who otherwise would keep arguing that they "already have a stock and want a pistol grip"

Zippy has the simple image that, up until you couldn't comprehend it, has functioned well for the task at hand...

I chose to call them Straight stock, traditional, AR style, and PGO.

Seems to serve the Call of Duty/Resident Evil/Mall Cop types better...

To me a traditional would be the one on an old SXS but too many folks never seen one complete... Many have seen it as a sawed off on the games but then it is a sawed off modern style as the straight grip lends poorly to sawed off combat duty.

I know much of the terminology I use is not 100% correct but it is what I came up with as I try to help those who ask for help.

I think Zippy likely forgot more about shotguns than many on here will ever know!

Brent

March 22, 2010, 03:48 PM	#27
RMcL Senior Member Join Date: May 7, 2006 Location: Alabama Posts: 273	Load it however you want! If you want big patterns: Load 12 gauge 3" Winchester #1 buckshot (.30" x 24 pellets) with an improved cylinder choke. Result: 20" patterns at 25 yards. If you want tight patterns: Load 12 gauge 3" Dixie Tri-Ball (.60" x 3 pellets) with a full choke. Result: 5" pattern at 50 yards. Both loads fire the same weight of lead at the same velocity: 2.25 ounces at 1050 FPS.

April 3, 2010, 12:48 PM	#30
kenno Junior member Join Date: November 3, 2008 Posts: 180	A different reason I live in a very remote area near Canada that in the past 2 years, has been 'adopted' by mexican drug cartels as an area to grow pot. For 2 years running the DEA has busted many BIG grow sites with-in a few miles of my home. Forestry workers have been told not to enter certain areas of public land. Mexicans driving rental cars with California License plates have been in the area alot. My neighbor was confronted at his home at 3AM by one trying to escape the law, and I have been confronted in the bush. The area near me has become a dumping ground for stolen vechicles with switched license plates. I carry a full choked shotgun with a pistolgrip stock loaded with buckshot as a defensive firearm so that I can put multible projectiles on target in a thick brush ambush enviroment at distances of 50 yards and more, a poor man's FA if you will. Hopfully this will enable me to break contact and safely retreat. I do not plan on being assainated like an AZ rancher without putting up a defensive fight! For this I need a shotgun/ammo combo that produces very tight groups. Last edited by kenno; April 3, 2010 at 12:55 PM.

April 3, 2010, 03:52 PM	#36
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	Once again, we had a brief failure to communicate about stock types: Last edited by zippy13; April 3, 2010 at 07:16 PM.

March 22, 2010, 06:34 PM	#28
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	I was using a rifled choke in my HD gun for a while. It gave me a pretty nice group at in house ranges. I can see why you would want a tight pattern for hunting, but HD I want a big fat pattern.

March 23, 2010, 05:42 PM	#29
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Forensics experts have told me that the most effective buck patterns would be those that are about 8' across and hit the CNS. My shotgun, choke and load will do the first part, hitting the CNS is up to me. And I've decades of practice at hitting small things,fast.

April 3, 2010, 12:58 PM	#31
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Kenno, Have you tried the same gun with a traditional type stock? I feel you could easily bring more to bear on the losers than with a PGO grip. Or are you using an AR type stock? Brent

April 3, 2010, 01:09 PM	#32
kenno Junior member Join Date: November 3, 2008 Posts: 180	I'm not a fool, as I stated it is a pistol grip stock, not a pistol grip.

April 3, 2010, 01:13 PM	#33
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Ten Dash Four! I wasn't callin' you one... just clarifying... Brent

April 3, 2010, 03:50 PM	#35
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	8 inches.....

April 3, 2010, 10:04 PM	#37
kenno Junior member Join Date: November 3, 2008 Posts: 180	Once again, we had a brief failure to communicate about stock types: __________________ The SxS is indeed a straight griped stock (just like my Webly Scott) The PGO is correct The 'detached pistol grip'? It looks attached to me! The 'pistolgrip or grip stock'? Where did you find this, England? it's a semi-pistolgrip stock and has been for at least 60 years, heck they made 1903s with semi-pistolgrip stocks! Oh wait; I see your from Kalifornia, never mind.

April 4, 2010, 09:49 AM	#39
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Kenno, Zippy's 10-20 has nuttin to do with the terms used on the forum! Actually, I bet when he is amongst his "peers" at the field, they use verbage and nounage (my word) properly and without abbreviations such as PGO... When I first joined a few years ago, the discussions on stocks would fling off on a tangent as too many did not know how to describe what they held... Some of us tried to come up with ways to help those who otherwise would keep arguing that they "already have a stock and want a pistol grip" Zippy has the simple image that, up until you couldn't comprehend it, has functioned well for the task at hand... I chose to call them Straight stock, traditional, AR style, and PGO. Seems to serve the Call of Duty/Resident Evil/Mall Cop types better... To me a traditional would be the one on an old SXS but too many folks never seen one complete... Many have seen it as a sawed off on the games but then it is a sawed off modern style as the straight grip lends poorly to sawed off combat duty. I know much of the terminology I use is not 100% correct but it is what I came up with as I try to help those who ask for help. I think Zippy likely forgot more about shotguns than many on here will ever know! Brent