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November 9, 2018, 09:21 PM | #1 |
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Seating Dies, Forster vs Redding
Forster Ultra Micrometer Seater Die vs Redding Competition Seater Die
I'm in the market for a micro seating die for 308 WIN. I already have a Redding competition die in 223, which I like very much except for not being able to use it for compressed loads. From what I can tell through on-line product descriptions, it appears the Forster Micrometer Seater die does not prohibit compressed loads. It is also quite a bit cheaper ($83 vs $133). Besides the obvious price difference, is the Forster die in the same league as the Redding? And does anyone know if the Forster can handle compressed loads?
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November 10, 2018, 04:37 PM | #2 |
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The difference is the Redding die's seating ram floats, which their patent claims will prevent bullet tilting in one circumstance that the older Forster design will not. However, I have no information on how often that actually comes up. Both are very good dies. Since the Forster seating ram stem is fixed on threads like a conventional seating die and instead of on a little round contact point coming down on it as happens in the Redding, I should think it will handle compressed loads just fine. The Redding can still handle slight compression but definitely no heavy compression.
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November 10, 2018, 07:58 PM | #3 |
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Why is it a must to compress a load ? Is it because your shooting long distance ?
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November 10, 2018, 07:59 PM | #4 |
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I got the Foreseter just to try it as well as loading 30-06 and if there was a better support system for the alighnment. Its a nice tool.
I looked at the Redding, but last look they had ity tiny add on micrometer and that seemed flaky. I also have two of the RCBS (one of which will do 30-06 as well as 308, the Forster is 30-06 specific) The Forster works, I prefer the side port seating chamber of the RCBS. I don''t know if one works better than the other. 06 shot better groups until recently, but its got a better barrel on it as well. At least for my noise level the Forster is certainly good enough.
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November 10, 2018, 09:10 PM | #5 | |
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Quote:
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November 10, 2018, 09:46 PM | #6 |
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Following thjs thread as well. Rc20 did you see any improvement in concentricity with the forster die?
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November 11, 2018, 03:57 AM | #7 | ||||
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Quote:
https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=598724 Quote:
Quote:
http://www.brunoshooters.com/product/13349.html Quote:
EXAMPLE : When using many of the most common powders for these loads (stick) you almost always have a compressed load . All my 69gr and heavier 223/5.56 loads are compressed at least a little . I had one load awhile back using IMR-4064 that you could hear the powder crunching as the bullet was seated . I started using a 6" drop tube to settle the powder which stopped the crunching of the powder . Anyways it's not that I/we need or even want compressed loads , It's just a result of the cartridge and the components used a lot of the times .
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November 11, 2018, 09:44 AM | #8 |
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Metal god
Makes perfect sense , I was thinking every bullet was like a 168gr MK in a 308 case . Small world think , thanks again. Chris |
November 11, 2018, 12:07 PM | #9 | |
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Quote:
I just use good dies and the Lyman M die for neck size and avoid that yank from the ball in the sizer die (mine are removed) One of these days I may buy the tool.
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November 11, 2018, 01:03 PM | #10 |
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I should add that photo above is a bit misleading . It was taken for another reason . The case on the left is the case with a COAL of 2.260 , the other was a COAL much shorter I used as an example in another thread . The case on the left still would have the complete BT below the base of the shoulder with most powders I use filling the case to the top of the shoulder if I don't use a drop tube .
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November 11, 2018, 05:06 PM | #11 |
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This is included by Redding with the Competition Seating Dies:
I thought I had something which specifically said the Forster was OK with compressed loads but I cant find it. I'll post it up if I find it. |
November 11, 2018, 06:20 PM | #12 |
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And when Forster says don't size military cases (primer crimp) with their dies, they really mean it.
I did have the crimps ground out and ok with RCBS but broke the floating shaft in the Forester,.
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November 11, 2018, 06:49 PM | #13 | |
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Yep mine had the same paper . I take that to mean VERY compressed loads as Unclenick was pointing out .
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November 11, 2018, 07:01 PM | #14 | |
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I disassembled one of my Redding dies to check my memory and part of the floating deal is the micrometer contact point is an almost hemispherical raised area. This lets the seating stem tilt a little if it needs to for ultimate alignment. The Forster doesn't have that, but the Forster threaded stem will distribute loading force over a larger area, which is why is should be good to go with compressed loads.
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November 11, 2018, 10:48 PM | #15 |
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So have we changed are minds on compressed loads using the Redding die ?
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November 12, 2018, 08:59 AM | #16 |
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If your seating die is bending the case necks to where the bullet is not concentric with the case body then you have a bigger problem than the brand seating dies you are using
Stick a bullet into a unsized case and try and bend the neck with your fingers
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November 12, 2018, 09:29 AM | #17 | |
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Quote:
The Forster looks like it can handle compressed loads the same as any other seating die.
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November 12, 2018, 09:54 AM | #18 |
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I like Forster dies. I like Redding better. My last Forster sizer had to go back because no matter what I lubed with, I stuck 30% of my cases. There was "nothing wrong with the die" but amazingly after it came back, it has not stuck a single case in over 500 pieces sized. I guess UPS fixed it in the ride back for service ????
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November 12, 2018, 10:41 AM | #19 | |
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Quote:
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If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . Last edited by Metal god; November 12, 2018 at 12:04 PM. |
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November 12, 2018, 10:54 AM | #20 |
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Ugh...
For seating single stage, or turret, I much prefer the Forster and all of my precision rounds, I use the Forster Ultra Seating Die. For loading on a Progressive I prefer Redding. I do not like the sizing dies from Forster at all. What I think is important with reloading is to understand what you are trying to accomplish and then get the best die, or combination of dies, for those goals. Speed, easy, accuracy, cost, steps, brass life, are all in play. I have a few tool heads that have a sizing die from one company, seating die from another and crimp (pistol and SA rifle) from another. I have modified dies and tool heads to get what I need. Like a .45 Colt Lee Collet crimp die to make a stab crimp on .450BM. RCBS, Lyman, Lee, Dillon, Redding, Forster and even a few custom made dies sit on my bench. |
November 12, 2018, 12:16 PM | #21 |
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MarckCO : I agree completely . I’d assume you’d agree , fully understanding what you want and or need as well as how each component works and how it can then be used by you to accomplish your goals is very important ?
Until these last few post I was going to get the redding die for my 223 as well . The fact my 223 loads are on the whole more often compressed loads then my 308 and compressed more , for me the forster die would be better for my needs . I needed a complete understanding before making those decisions .
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If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . Last edited by Metal god; November 12, 2018 at 06:56 PM. |
November 12, 2018, 07:00 PM | #22 |
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Metal god, yes, I agree.
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November 13, 2018, 04:55 PM | #23 |
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Mg,
The last FGM loads I pulled were all 43.5 grains, ±0.2 grains of 4064 and the indentation of the base in the powder was clear in the Federal cases. QuickLOAD puts it at 0.4% compression, but 4064 is so susceptible to pack differently depending on how it was dropped, that it's possible for it not to be compressed as well.
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November 14, 2018, 07:19 PM | #24 |
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I have done well with the RCBS.
Havn't found anything sub standard about them, I suspect each die mfg gets a poor one loose once in a while. And bless them, I wanted a comp seater in 7.5 x 55 and they were the only ones that had it (at least I could find)
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