Universal M1 Carbine

armyrto · November 3, 2001, 05:40 PM

I've the opportunity to trade for either a 1972 Winchester Model 94 30-30 or a Universal M1 Carbine (same price). I am curious if via the serial number I can find out when the Universal was manufactured. Is there a website somewhere that specializes in Universal M1's? Thanks...

Johnny Guest · November 3, 2001, 06:26 PM

A Google search may turn up some interesting things, but I don't know of any collector interest in the Universal carbines. Lots about the military versions, though.

Late Edit: After I had written and posted this whole reply, I realized your question was posted in RESEARCH forum. The rest of my reply, below, was more suitable for one in Art of the Rifle or The Hunt forums. But, having written it, I'm gonna leave it here.
MODERATOR: You won't hurt my feelings if you edit/clip/delete this stuff. Sorry 'bout that. JPG

You don't mention your intended use for either firearm. Suggest you look up the thread,

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...r+deer+hunting

from a couple of months ago. I believe the consensus is that the .30 US Carbine round is unsuitable for deer and hog hunting. Not really accurate enough for classic varmint hunting. Pretty good for home defense, if you accept the parameters--One bullet per trigger pull, possible overpenetration.

As to the Winchester 94 .30-30--
By 1972, they had cured many of the problems with the post-1964 Winchester products, particularly the ‘94. It is certainly NOT the collector's piece the older guns were, but it is a good, serviceable hunting arm, particularly if rigged out with a good receiver peep sight. It has plenty of power and a decent enough trajectory for deer well beyond 100 yards--How much beyond is up to your ability and amount of practice. Unless you are in thick cover with no chance of 100 yard plus shots, suggest you stick with the 150 gr. Soft point loads.

If you want to use the arm for hunting, I believe you'd be much better off with the .30-30.

One man's opinion. Whatever you decide, good luck, and
Best regards.
Johnny

armyrto · November 3, 2001, 08:18 PM

Thanks for the reply. I don't intend to use either for hunting, I'm simply a shooter for sport. I do like to procure firearms that at least retain their value. I've read some of the threads about the M1 via Google and this site. None seem too encouraging. I pumped out about 35 rounds from it today and it did jam (misfeed) three times. At 50 feet once I got the sights adjusted I was able to consistantly keep them w/in a 5" circle... probably 16 out of 20. I have yet to shoot the Model 94, I will be able to do that this Friday. I've looked online, but haven't been able to find any real source of values for either weapon. Have any ideas? Thanks again...

johnwill · November 3, 2001, 08:26 PM

The Universal is a post-war commercial clone of the M1 Carbine, and generally enjoys a lousy reputation for reliability. I know I wouldn't pay my good money for one of them, FWIW.

Walt Sherrill · November 4, 2001, 12:04 PM

I agree with Johnwill...

Only the earliest of the Universals have any value -- although there are a lot of unsuspecting buyers buying the later ones...

The earliest guns have their own collectors' niche, but they don't come close to having the interest or value of the US Government-made M1 Carbines.

The early Universals were made with many surplus parts, but as production progressed, those parts ran out and they started to make their own, from stamped metal. Those guns fail frequently, parts are hard to find, and are generally considered trash.

I've avoid a Universal like the plague...

Ziplok · November 4, 2001, 02:02 PM

Hey! I got one of these... It's a great little shooter, fancier finish and wood than the GI's. Accurate at 50yds with ball ammo and the issue sights. No problems with functionality, it chambers it shoots, it extracts/ejects

The receiver is marked "Hialea, Fla." Don't know if it's an older model or not. This one is getting a scope or Red Dot mounted.
Should be a fun little shooter.

Navy joe · November 6, 2001, 01:58 AM

:barf: Universal! Get the '94 and at least you'll get a quality firearm. But if you must get the Universal I've got a parts kit I'll sell you. Actually its the whole gun minus the charging handle that tried to disassemble itself into my face at 400 rds. from new.

jimmy · November 23, 2001, 04:57 AM

I bought a Universal carbine new when I was 18 (= quite a few years ago). A lot of its parts are GI, one of the exceptions being the trigger housing, which is a somewhat crude and ugly, although functional, alloy casting. It's been a reliable gun. Later I got a GI carbine through the NRA, so I passed the Universal along to my brother, who still enjoys plinking with it. One of his kids will probably get it someday.

While my experience with Universal has been good overall, I'd never buy another Universal carbine, as long as there are GI carbines to be had. So, of the carbine and the Winchester 94, I personally would pick the Winchester.

November 3, 2001, 05:40 PM	#1
armyrto Junior Member Join Date: November 3, 2001 Posts: 2	Universal M1 Carbine I've the opportunity to trade for either a 1972 Winchester Model 94 30-30 or a Universal M1 Carbine (same price). I am curious if via the serial number I can find out when the Universal was manufactured. Is there a website somewhere that specializes in Universal M1's? Thanks...

November 3, 2001, 06:26 PM	#2
Johnny Guest Moderator in Memoriam Join Date: August 28, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 4,123	Welcome to TFL, armyrto - - - A Google search may turn up some interesting things, but I don't know of any collector interest in the Universal carbines. Lots about the military versions, though. Late Edit: After I had written and posted this whole reply, I realized your question was posted in RESEARCH forum. The rest of my reply, below, was more suitable for one in Art of the Rifle or The Hunt forums. But, having written it, I'm gonna leave it here. MODERATOR: You won't hurt my feelings if you edit/clip/delete this stuff. Sorry 'bout that. JPG You don't mention your intended use for either firearm. Suggest you look up the thread, http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...r+deer+hunting from a couple of months ago. I believe the consensus is that the .30 US Carbine round is unsuitable for deer and hog hunting. Not really accurate enough for classic varmint hunting. Pretty good for home defense, if you accept the parameters--One bullet per trigger pull, possible overpenetration. As to the Winchester 94 .30-30-- By 1972, they had cured many of the problems with the post-1964 Winchester products, particularly the ‘94. It is certainly NOT the collector's piece the older guns were, but it is a good, serviceable hunting arm, particularly if rigged out with a good receiver peep sight. It has plenty of power and a decent enough trajectory for deer well beyond 100 yards--How much beyond is up to your ability and amount of practice. Unless you are in thick cover with no chance of 100 yard plus shots, suggest you stick with the 150 gr. Soft point loads. If you want to use the arm for hunting, I believe you'd be much better off with the .30-30. One man's opinion. Whatever you decide, good luck, and Best regards. Johnny

November 4, 2001, 02:02 PM	#6
Ziplok Senior Member Join Date: October 27, 2001 Location: California Foothills Posts: 100	Universal? Hey! I got one of these... It's a great little shooter, fancier finish and wood than the GI's. Accurate at 50yds with ball ammo and the issue sights. No problems with functionality, it chambers it shoots, it extracts/ejects The receiver is marked "Hialea, Fla." Don't know if it's an older model or not. This one is getting a scope or Red Dot mounted. Should be a fun little shooter. __________________ Our third-rate snivilization..... There is something even more valuable to civilization than wisdom...and that is character.

November 6, 2001, 01:58 AM	#7
Navy joe Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2001 Location: VA, USA Posts: 1,804	:barf: Universal! Get the '94 and at least you'll get a quality firearm. But if you must get the Universal I've got a parts kit I'll sell you. Actually its the whole gun minus the charging handle that tried to disassemble itself into my face at 400 rds. from new. __________________ FY47012

November 23, 2001, 04:57 AM	#8
jimmy Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 1999 Location: Texas Posts: 1,796	I bought a Universal carbine new when I was 18 (= quite a few years ago). A lot of its parts are GI, one of the exceptions being the trigger housing, which is a somewhat crude and ugly, although functional, alloy casting. It's been a reliable gun. Later I got a GI carbine through the NRA, so I passed the Universal along to my brother, who still enjoys plinking with it. One of his kids will probably get it someday. While my experience with Universal has been good overall, I'd never buy another Universal carbine, as long as there are GI carbines to be had. So, of the carbine and the Winchester 94, I personally would pick the Winchester. Last edited by jimmy; November 23, 2001 at 05:26 PM.

November 3, 2001, 08:18 PM	#3
armyrto Junior Member Join Date: November 3, 2001 Posts: 2	Thanks for the reply. I don't intend to use either for hunting, I'm simply a shooter for sport. I do like to procure firearms that at least retain their value. I've read some of the threads about the M1 via Google and this site. None seem too encouraging. I pumped out about 35 rounds from it today and it did jam (misfeed) three times. At 50 feet once I got the sights adjusted I was able to consistantly keep them w/in a 5" circle... probably 16 out of 20. I have yet to shoot the Model 94, I will be able to do that this Friday. I've looked online, but haven't been able to find any real source of values for either weapon. Have any ideas? Thanks again...

November 3, 2001, 08:26 PM	#4
johnwill Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2000 Location: PA Posts: 3,451	The Universal is a post-war commercial clone of the M1 Carbine, and generally enjoys a lousy reputation for reliability. I know I wouldn't pay my good money for one of them, FWIW.

November 4, 2001, 12:04 PM	#5
Walt Sherrill Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 1999 Location: Winston-Salem, NC USA Posts: 6,348	I agree with Johnwill... Only the earliest of the Universals have any value -- although there are a lot of unsuspecting buyers buying the later ones... The earliest guns have their own collectors' niche, but they don't come close to having the interest or value of the US Government-made M1 Carbines. The early Universals were made with many surplus parts, but as production progressed, those parts ran out and they started to make their own, from stamped metal. Those guns fail frequently, parts are hard to find, and are generally considered trash. I've avoid a Universal like the plague...