Getting cap and ball cravings: Need advise

osallent · March 28, 2011, 02:43 AM

MODERATOR: I just noticed the black powder forum. If you deem it appropriate please move my post to that forum, Thanks

It all started two days ago when I accidentally stumbled into the Uberti website. I've been doing research since and I have a few questions from black powder revolver owners:

1) Is the 1858 Remington really that much easier to use than the 1860 Army?

2) For a beginner to the world of cap and ball revolvers, which should I start with: The Model 1851 Navy, Model 1860 army or Model 1858 Remington?

3) Obviously I know of Uberti since I stumbled into their website while doing a little research on the history of the revolver on Google, but I have no idea how they compare to other companies that make cap and ball replicas. Which companies make good ones and which ones make lemons that I need to watch out for?

madcratebuilder · March 28, 2011, 07:42 AM

The open top Colts have a few more idiosyncrasies than the 1858 Remingtons. The Italian imports often need tuning of the arbor length and wedge fit. I would start with the 1858 and master loading and cleaning then move on to the open tops. Cap and ball revolvers can be very addictive.

osallent · March 28, 2011, 07:47 AM

Wow...you have enough of them to equip a whole calvary group. Very beautiful collection.

Are all of yours from a specific maker or a mix??

Rifleman1776 · March 28, 2011, 08:34 AM

madcratebuilder gave good advice. The Remmy is more like a modern gun you might already be familiar with.
But, for a guy who reccomends the Remington, he sure has a lot of open tops. And a very fine collection it is.

arcticap · March 28, 2011, 09:43 AM

I read for a long time before buying any black powder revolvers and decided that the Remington was easier to start with. Generally they seem to have less of a need for home gunsmithing work to be performed on them. The 1858 cylinder pin does get fouled up after fewer shots, but that's easy to deal with and the 1858's really don't suffer from any cap related issues that can jam up their cylinder. Swapping out a cylinder to reload is very easy too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by osallent

Which companies make good ones and which ones make lemons that I need to watch out for?

They have all made good and bad ones but many folks are thrilled with their Pietta and would recommend buying one from Cabela's because of their low sale prices and great return/exchange policy. Primarily for that reason Pietta's are the most popular and control a large majority of the U.S. market.
The discontinued Palmetto's might be the least desirable ones.
The 1858's with a steel frame are the most desirable.
An adjustable target sight can be a plus depending on personal preference.

Rachen · March 28, 2011, 09:58 AM

WOW Madcratebuilder!

Nathan Forrest would have LOVED to have you as Master Armorer for his unit. It's missing a Smith/Sharps/Spencer or two, otherwise you have a complete quartermaster's outift.

shafter · March 28, 2011, 10:28 AM

Just go with whatever looks/feels the best for you. I started with an 1851 Navy and didn't find it difficult at all. It really isn't rocket science to pop the wedge pin out and pull the barrel off.

AirForceShooter · March 28, 2011, 10:39 AM

1858 Remy for no other reason than that's what I shoot.

AFS

Bishop Creek · March 28, 2011, 10:50 AM

Up until a few years ago when both Uberti and Pietta (the only current makers of cap and ball revolvers) started manufacturing their cap and ball pistols with CNC machines, the Uberti was probably a better pistol. But now the Pietta’s are quite nice and Cabelas sells the Pietta “1858” Remington for only $200. You really can’t go wrong with it.

Like the poster above I started out some 40 years ago with an 1851 Navy Colt replica and over the years have owned nearly 20 types of cap and ball revolvers, including 2nd and 3rd Generation Colts, Remingtons, the Starr, etc. but in my opinion, the ’58 Remington (actually a copy of the 1863 New Model Army) is the best one for a beginner to get. Easier to load, fire, clean, and they are quite accurate.

The Pietta ’58 Remington usually shoots nice right out of the box, but remember it is an assembled gun, so it won’t handle like a finely hand fitted Colt. But with a little stoning of the internals, you can have a nice accurate piece.

P.S. Stay away from brass framed models, the frames stretch after repeated firing.

junkman_01 · March 28, 2011, 12:54 PM

I have more Colt types than Remingtons, so I recommend a Colt in .44 caliber.

Ultravox · March 28, 2011, 01:08 PM

There is a guy selling some of each type for cheap in the Buy/Sell/Trade forum.

If I had the dollars I'd snap up the 1860 Army. (I already have an 1858 New Army - love it!)

Doc Hoy · March 28, 2011, 01:10 PM

for a first revolver, I would stick with the Remington.

Actually, if you can swing it, you might want to go to Cabela's and spring for the Remington as well as the 1860 Colt. Both are an outstanding deal at 200.00 and you never know when they might end the sale.

If you start with the Remington, sooner or later you are going to want the Colt. Might as well gettem both now.

Hawg · March 28, 2011, 04:07 PM

I'd go with the 58 Remington for a first gun because it is a little easier to learn.

I'd prefer a steel frame but a brass frame wont stretch if you use light loads. Cabela's has the best deal going for Pietta. Euroarms still makes the 58 Remington and Rogers and Spencer.

bedbugbilly · March 28, 2011, 05:09 PM

I'd start with the Remington as well . . . you'll probably encounter less problems that can occur with an open top in regards to the arbor, wedge, etc. - my favorite is the "51 Navy but owning both open top models and Remmies . . . I'd still stick with the Remmie. You'll be hooked the first time you fire it and trust me . . . you'll want other models as well! Good luck to you in whatever model you choose . . shoot safe and have fun!

Madcratebuilder . . . what else can be said but that you are a very, very sick man . . . your addiction appears to be getting worse .. . . there may not be any hope left for you . . . . but then . . . some of the rest of us are "hopeless" as well so I guess we are all in good company??

One the serious side . . . that's one nice "family" of revolvers you have . . .. very nice indeed!

Noz · March 28, 2011, 05:13 PM

Try before you buy. They don't feel nor act the same for everyone. I started with Remingtons and now would not own one.

ClemBert · March 28, 2011, 05:25 PM

My first 1858 was Uberti made. It's very very nice. My first BP revolver was a Ruger Old Army. For a beginner and for the price you can NOT go wrong with a Pietta made 1858 for $199 at Cabelas. Don't buy a brass framed revolver as your first...you'll regret it later when you want to maximize the smoke-n-boom factor.

kameron454ci · March 28, 2011, 08:35 PM

lots of people say 58 for a first gun but now that i have a 58 rem and a 51 colt I like the colt better for bp. and use the rem for my 45colt smokeless loads. the colt is easy to clean because you can remove the barrel from the gun

c.robertson · March 28, 2011, 08:55 PM

But if you want a really FUN FUN FUN gun, get a Pedersoli Howdah 20ga double barrel pistol.
I shoot 99% round ball, but you can just shove about anything down the barrel with about any 2F powder charge that you can take the recoil, and blast away.
WHAT JOY!!

OH! I also have 3 ROA, and 4 '58 Remingtons and no 2 alike.

osallent · March 28, 2011, 08:58 PM

It turned out to be a Pietta 1851 Colt Navy

Just picked it up this afternoon.

ClemBert · March 28, 2011, 09:09 PM

Daggumit....I told you not to get a brasser!

Oh well, welcome to the dark side anyway!

Bishop Creek · March 28, 2011, 09:26 PM

Looks like the first one I bought back in 1969.

ZVP · March 28, 2011, 11:23 PM

Ithink that you will find the Uberti guns better finished than the Piettias but that's not to say the piettias are low quality. I own both and I have found the Piettia '58 Remingtons to be trouble free and very accurate shooters! I own both a 8" and a 5 1/2".
Brass framed revolvers are weaker than steel but you can still load to say 20 grains of FFF and still have the revolver last forever. Just do not overload a brass frame or you will stretch it and the cylinder gap will get out of tolerance. TYhis causes "spitting" and is dangerous.
A brass frame operats more smoothly than a steel frame because of the natural slickness of the brass . They operate very smooth.
A good starter pistol is a Traqditions '58 remington with a "starter Kit" of accesories that you need anyhow. The price is only around $25 more thn a plain revolver.
Once you get one style aqnd Caliber you will want othersw, they're addicting! I just wanted one and suddenly bought 4 within 2 months. It happens...
You will be amazed at the possible accuracy of BP revolvers, I swear I shoot cloverleafs with my Brass Colt '51 clone!
ZVP

Doc Hoy · March 29, 2011, 03:29 AM

Another one is hooked.

madcratebuilder · March 29, 2011, 10:05 AM

Welcome to the dark side.

The Italians have gotten much better at quality control and most product is GTG these days. The older C&B revolvers more often than not required gunsmith skills.

My Colt photo is the made in the USA revolvers, 2nd and 3rd gen with three High Standards. Some day I well drag the imports out for a group shot, probably twice again as many. Got to do my part to keep the economy going. Armalite and Noveske recently named new CNC machines after me

Hawg · March 29, 2011, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Armalite and Noveske recently named new CNC machines after me

I wouldn't be a bit surprised.

March 28, 2011, 02:43 AM	#1
osallent Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2011 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 116	Getting cap and ball cravings: Need advise MODERATOR: I just noticed the black powder forum. If you deem it appropriate please move my post to that forum, Thanks It all started two days ago when I accidentally stumbled into the Uberti website. I've been doing research since and I have a few questions from black powder revolver owners: 1) Is the 1858 Remington really that much easier to use than the 1860 Army? 2) For a beginner to the world of cap and ball revolvers, which should I start with: The Model 1851 Navy, Model 1860 army or Model 1858 Remington? 3) Obviously I know of Uberti since I stumbled into their website while doing a little research on the history of the revolver on Google, but I have no idea how they compare to other companies that make cap and ball replicas. Which companies make good ones and which ones make lemons that I need to watch out for? __________________ Thank God for Guns! Last edited by osallent; March 28, 2011 at 03:11 AM.

March 28, 2011, 07:47 AM	#3
osallent Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2011 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 116	Wow...you have enough of them to equip a whole calvary group. Very beautiful collection. Are all of yours from a specific maker or a mix?? __________________ Thank God for Guns!

March 28, 2011, 10:50 AM	#9
Bishop Creek Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2011 Posts: 566	Up until a few years ago when both Uberti and Pietta (the only current makers of cap and ball revolvers) started manufacturing their cap and ball pistols with CNC machines, the Uberti was probably a better pistol. But now the Pietta’s are quite nice and Cabelas sells the Pietta “1858” Remington for only $200. You really can’t go wrong with it. Like the poster above I started out some 40 years ago with an 1851 Navy Colt replica and over the years have owned nearly 20 types of cap and ball revolvers, including 2nd and 3rd Generation Colts, Remingtons, the Starr, etc. but in my opinion, the ’58 Remington (actually a copy of the 1863 New Model Army) is the best one for a beginner to get. Easier to load, fire, clean, and they are quite accurate. The Pietta ’58 Remington usually shoots nice right out of the box, but remember it is an assembled gun, so it won’t handle like a finely hand fitted Colt. But with a little stoning of the internals, you can have a nice accurate piece. P.S. Stay away from brass framed models, the frames stretch after repeated firing. Last edited by Bishop Creek; March 28, 2011 at 11:07 AM.

March 28, 2011, 01:08 PM	#11
Ultravox Member Join Date: January 11, 2011 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 75	Look in the Buy/Sell forum There is a guy selling some of each type for cheap in the Buy/Sell/Trade forum. If I had the dollars I'd snap up the 1860 Army. (I already have an 1858 New Army - love it!)

March 28, 2011, 01:10 PM	#12
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	I am like the Junkman but for a first revolver, I would stick with the Remington. Actually, if you can swing it, you might want to go to Cabela's and spring for the Remington as well as the 1860 Colt. Both are an outstanding deal at 200.00 and you never know when they might end the sale. If you start with the Remington, sooner or later you are going to want the Colt. Might as well gettem both now. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

March 28, 2011, 07:42 AM	#2
madcratebuilder Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2007 Location: Northern Orygun Posts: 4,923	The open top Colts have a few more idiosyncrasies than the 1858 Remingtons. The Italian imports often need tuning of the arbor length and wedge fit. I would start with the 1858 and master loading and cleaning then move on to the open tops. Cap and ball revolvers can be very addictive.

March 28, 2011, 08:34 AM	#4
Rifleman1776 Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 3,309	madcratebuilder gave good advice. The Remmy is more like a modern gun you might already be familiar with. But, for a guy who reccomends the Remington, he sure has a lot of open tops. And a very fine collection it is.

March 28, 2011, 09:58 AM	#6
Rachen Senior Member Join Date: May 10, 2006 Location: Weekend cowboy Posts: 542	WOW Madcratebuilder! Nathan Forrest would have LOVED to have you as Master Armorer for his unit. It's missing a Smith/Sharps/Spencer or two, otherwise you have a complete quartermaster's outift.

March 28, 2011, 10:28 AM	#7
shafter Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2009 Posts: 1,624	Just go with whatever looks/feels the best for you. I started with an 1851 Navy and didn't find it difficult at all. It really isn't rocket science to pop the wedge pin out and pull the barrel off.

March 28, 2011, 10:39 AM	#8
AirForceShooter Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2005 Location: Sarasota (sort of) Florida Posts: 1,296	1858 Remy for no other reason than that's what I shoot. AFS

March 28, 2011, 12:54 PM	#10
junkman_01 Junior member Join Date: November 9, 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 260	I have more Colt types than Remingtons, so I recommend a Colt in .44 caliber.

March 28, 2011, 04:07 PM	#13
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	I'd go with the 58 Remington for a first gun because it is a little easier to learn. I'd prefer a steel frame but a brass frame wont stretch if you use light loads. Cabela's has the best deal going for Pietta. Euroarms still makes the 58 Remington and Rogers and Spencer.

March 28, 2011, 05:09 PM	#14
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	I'd start with the Remington as well . . . you'll probably encounter less problems that can occur with an open top in regards to the arbor, wedge, etc. - my favorite is the "51 Navy but owning both open top models and Remmies . . . I'd still stick with the Remmie. You'll be hooked the first time you fire it and trust me . . . you'll want other models as well! Good luck to you in whatever model you choose . . shoot safe and have fun! Madcratebuilder . . . what else can be said but that you are a very, very sick man . . . your addiction appears to be getting worse .. . . there may not be any hope left for you . . . . but then . . . some of the rest of us are "hopeless" as well so I guess we are all in good company?? One the serious side . . . that's one nice "family" of revolvers you have . . .. very nice indeed! __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

March 28, 2011, 05:13 PM	#15
Noz Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2009 Posts: 643	Try before you buy. They don't feel nor act the same for everyone. I started with Remingtons and now would not own one.

March 28, 2011, 05:25 PM	#16
ClemBert Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2009 Location: Orlando Posts: 936	My first 1858 was Uberti made. It's very very nice. My first BP revolver was a Ruger Old Army. For a beginner and for the price you can NOT go wrong with a Pietta made 1858 for $199 at Cabelas. Don't buy a brass framed revolver as your first...you'll regret it later when you want to maximize the smoke-n-boom factor.

March 28, 2011, 08:35 PM	#17
kameron454ci Member Join Date: January 14, 2011 Location: Montague. MI Posts: 85	lots of people say 58 for a first gun but now that i have a 58 rem and a 51 colt I like the colt better for bp. and use the rem for my 45colt smokeless loads. the colt is easy to clean because you can remove the barrel from the gun

March 28, 2011, 08:55 PM	#18
c.robertson Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2009 Location: Grain Valley Mo. Posts: 102	But if you want a really FUN FUN FUN gun, get a Pedersoli Howdah 20ga double barrel pistol. I shoot 99% round ball, but you can just shove about anything down the barrel with about any 2F powder charge that you can take the recoil, and blast away. WHAT JOY!! OH! I also have 3 ROA, and 4 '58 Remingtons and no 2 alike.

March 28, 2011, 08:58 PM	#19
osallent Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2011 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 116	It turned out to be a Pietta 1851 Colt Navy Just picked it up this afternoon. __________________ Thank God for Guns!

March 28, 2011, 09:09 PM	#20
ClemBert Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2009 Location: Orlando Posts: 936	Daggumit....I told you not to get a brasser! Oh well, welcome to the dark side anyway!

March 28, 2011, 09:26 PM	#21
Bishop Creek Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2011 Posts: 566	Looks like the first one I bought back in 1969.

March 28, 2011, 11:23 PM	#22
ZVP Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2009 Posts: 1,102	What to buy? Ithink that you will find the Uberti guns better finished than the Piettias but that's not to say the piettias are low quality. I own both and I have found the Piettia '58 Remingtons to be trouble free and very accurate shooters! I own both a 8" and a 5 1/2". Brass framed revolvers are weaker than steel but you can still load to say 20 grains of FFF and still have the revolver last forever. Just do not overload a brass frame or you will stretch it and the cylinder gap will get out of tolerance. TYhis causes "spitting" and is dangerous. A brass frame operats more smoothly than a steel frame because of the natural slickness of the brass . They operate very smooth. A good starter pistol is a Traqditions '58 remington with a "starter Kit" of accesories that you need anyhow. The price is only around $25 more thn a plain revolver. Once you get one style aqnd Caliber you will want othersw, they're addicting! I just wanted one and suddenly bought 4 within 2 months. It happens... You will be amazed at the possible accuracy of BP revolvers, I swear I shoot cloverleafs with my Brass Colt '51 clone! ZVP

March 29, 2011, 03:29 AM	#23
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Well Fellas, Another one is hooked. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

March 29, 2011, 10:05 AM	#24
madcratebuilder Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2007 Location: Northern Orygun Posts: 4,923	Welcome to the dark side. The Italians have gotten much better at quality control and most product is GTG these days. The older C&B revolvers more often than not required gunsmith skills. My Colt photo is the made in the USA revolvers, 2nd and 3rd gen with three High Standards. Some day I well drag the imports out for a group shot, probably twice again as many. Got to do my part to keep the economy going. Armalite and Noveske recently named new CNC machines after me

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