Handgunlaw.us Seeking Help on No Gun Sign Laws.

Gary Slider · December 17, 2010, 07:08 PM

12/19/10
The project is finished as best it can be. I have been emailing with 8 or more people who have helped. Thank you for your assistance. You made it much easier than I thought. Not all pages are 100% as some states don't have signage laws and digging out laws on Trespass, Case law etc is not easy. A few states will have a ? mark and state that we are not sure at this time and to treat all signs as having the force of law. The one thing I am sure of is when someone who knows what the laws actually are on have info that shows which way the law applies they will contact Handgunlaw.us with the correct info. All this new information will show up on or about 1/1/11 on the site. Again thank you for your assistance as No one can do this all themselves. Handgunlaw.us is what it is because of people assisting. Merry Christmas and Praying the New Year is all you are wishing for. Gary

With being retired, single digit temps and snow and not going anywhere I have completed updating all the state pages to post on 1/1/11 with the new Iowa Shall Issue law etc. I have kicked around the idea of adding the No Gun Sign Law/Meaning to each states page. Have been barnstorming with six people via email about this. I thought this would take more time but have decided since every page must be uploaded around 1/1/11 I should do it now. If I don’t get them all done then can add them as I get them done but do the majority now.
I need some assistance. I just can’t go with what some says. I have to have something in the law or something written by case law, Official State Website FAQ’s, Attorney or something more substantial than just opinion. I do realize in some instances there is no law so it is legal. Those will be the tough ones as if it isn’t in the law it is legal. But if anyone can help me with links etc to the following states on anything that states or shows if No Gun Signs have the power of the Law behind them or not it would be greatly appreciated. For states not listed I already have that info. If you have info for any state not listed a small post saying they do have the power of law or they don’t would help me to recheck what I have. I have made errors before and this would be a check for me. If you wish to view how the items appear on each states page you can go to http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/...ageWording.png and this image will show it.
Thank You, Gary Slider Handgunlaw.us

Alabama, California, Hawaii, Iowa, Idaho, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Maryland,
Maine, North Dakota, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Nevada, New York, Oklahoma,
Rhode Island, Utah, Vermont, Washington,

**44 AMP** · December 18, 2010, 12:56 PM

I can't help with gun law links, sorry. But I will share my understanding of how they work, for what its worth. No Gun signs on public property (like a courthouse) usually reference the law on the sign, down at the bottom.

No gun signs on private property do not have any law behind them, only the property owner's desires. If you have a gun on "no gun" private property, all the owner can do is ask you to leave. He cannot have the law charge you with anything.

However, if you do not leave when asked/ordered, THEN the property owner can have you charged with trespassing.

I realize this isn't what you are looking for, but its all I got. Hope it helps.

Ditto_95 · December 20, 2010, 05:17 PM

That is my understanding as well.

Gary Slider · December 20, 2010, 10:43 PM

Not So. In some states a sign on private property has the force of law. If you go into a furniture store that has a sign you can be charged with trespassing or a law that specifically spells out that people carrying firearms can't enter those places.

I will agree in some states Signs on private property do not have the force of law but you had better watch out because in many states they do have the force of law.

**44 AMP** · December 21, 2010, 09:25 PM

Depending on the specific place and state laws. The example of a furniture store is a fair one, if we contrast it with a bar/Tavern, or a bank.

State laws prohibit carry of arms in specific private places (like those serving alcohol, or a bank), just as they do certain public places. However, they do not generally bar the carry of arms on other private property, like a furniture store, or a mall, or the 40 acres of woodlot owned by a paper company, or the farmer down the road.

In those privately owned places not specified in law (open to the public, or not), a "no guns" sign means nothing, legally. It means something to the owner, and gives them a reason to order you off their property, if they desire (not that they need one, legally) but it carries no force of law.

What I mean is, that you cannot be charged with carrying a gun in Homer's Furniture, absent specific state or local ordinance against carrying.

Homer can tell you to leave, because he doesn't want guns in his place, that's his right. But he can't have the law after you for having a gun in defiance of his sign.

However, any action other than immediately leaving when Homer says so (including arguing about our Constitutional rights

) makes you guilty of trespass, and Homer can sic the law on you for that, and likely will.

Just as you can be charged with trespass when crossing "posted" land. There is in law a process for posting land against trespass, but there is none that I am familiar with concerning a "no gun" sign. At least, so far.

But, as pointed out, different locals may have differing laws, so check yours carefully.

doctruptwn · December 21, 2010, 10:49 PM

I'm Sorry But I will have to side with Gary on this one. I'll Use the same Furniture Store scenario. Until July 1,2010. If a furniture store in the state of Kansas was displaying a "No Gun" sign and you were caught passing that sign, You would be charged with a Class "C" felony and have you CCW permit suspended, Jail time, and if successfully prosecuted lose your right to own fiearms.

Now fortunately this changed this year, However, there is now a $50 fine for the first time you get caught, $100 fine for the second time, and then "3rd strike your out" Suspended license and the whole being charged and going to jail thing.

Another example, In Arkansas, you have to have the property owners permission to carry into a private residence. No posting required

Ditto_95 · December 22, 2010, 07:29 AM

Concealed means concealed. If you are asked to leave because you are carrying a firearm, it would be because you did not hold up your end of the responsibilty.

On the other side, why even visit a business if they don't want you there?

starbuck125 · January 9, 2011, 10:50 AM

in ky carrying a concealed weapon without premit is a class A mis.
my nephew found this out a week ago. he was on his way to cut out overgrown brush off my mothers farm for deer hunting this fall when he stopped at the local store for a coke. I was on his side, he had his coat zipped up and gun wasn't concealed at the time, but when he went tp pay for the coke , he unzipped the coat to reach inside pocket for money, forgot to rezip it, hence coat covering the butt of the weapon. he walked out as the sheriff, who was also stopping for a drink pulled in. sheriff seen hoslster, stopped him , asked for his premit, and where he was going, kid told him where he was going but no premit . sheriff ran the gun , came up clean, charged him with conclealed weapon, took the gun, gave him a court date and let him go. sheriff told him that he'd prob get it back, just to explain to the judge that happened and why he was carry it and so forth.

Tallyman · January 10, 2011, 03:44 PM

Please explain. . . . does carrying a handgun without a round in the chamber still require a concealed carry license?

Does a "No Gun" sign also apply to the police?

December 17, 2010, 07:08 PM	#1
Gary Slider Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2006 Location: New Martinsville, WV Posts: 431	Handgunlaw.us Seeking Help on No Gun Sign Laws. (EDITRD) 12/19/10 The project is finished as best it can be. I have been emailing with 8 or more people who have helped. Thank you for your assistance. You made it much easier than I thought. Not all pages are 100% as some states don't have signage laws and digging out laws on Trespass, Case law etc is not easy. A few states will have a ? mark and state that we are not sure at this time and to treat all signs as having the force of law. The one thing I am sure of is when someone who knows what the laws actually are on have info that shows which way the law applies they will contact Handgunlaw.us with the correct info. All this new information will show up on or about 1/1/11 on the site. Again thank you for your assistance as No one can do this all themselves. Handgunlaw.us is what it is because of people assisting. Merry Christmas and Praying the New Year is all you are wishing for. Gary With being retired, single digit temps and snow and not going anywhere I have completed updating all the state pages to post on 1/1/11 with the new Iowa Shall Issue law etc. I have kicked around the idea of adding the No Gun Sign Law/Meaning to each states page. Have been barnstorming with six people via email about this. I thought this would take more time but have decided since every page must be uploaded around 1/1/11 I should do it now. If I don’t get them all done then can add them as I get them done but do the majority now. I need some assistance. I just can’t go with what some says. I have to have something in the law or something written by case law, Official State Website FAQ’s, Attorney or something more substantial than just opinion. I do realize in some instances there is no law so it is legal. Those will be the tough ones as if it isn’t in the law it is legal. But if anyone can help me with links etc to the following states on anything that states or shows if No Gun Signs have the power of the Law behind them or not it would be greatly appreciated. For states not listed I already have that info. If you have info for any state not listed a small post saying they do have the power of law or they don’t would help me to recheck what I have. I have made errors before and this would be a check for me. If you wish to view how the items appear on each states page you can go to http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/...ageWording.png and this image will show it. Thank You, Gary Slider Handgunlaw.us Alabama, California, Hawaii, Iowa, Idaho, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Maryland, Maine, North Dakota, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Nevada, New York, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, Utah, Vermont, Washington, __________________ ___________ Gary Slider Co-Owner Handgunlaw.us Member Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network. Last edited by Gary Slider; December 19, 2010 at 11:08 AM.

December 18, 2010, 12:56 PM	#2
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,820	I can't help with gun law links, sorry. But I will share my understanding of how they work, for what its worth. No Gun signs on public property (like a courthouse) usually reference the law on the sign, down at the bottom. No gun signs on private property do not have any law behind them, only the property owner's desires. If you have a gun on "no gun" private property, all the owner can do is ask you to leave. He cannot have the law charge you with anything. However, if you do not leave when asked/ordered, THEN the property owner can have you charged with trespassing. I realize this isn't what you are looking for, but its all I got. Hope it helps. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

December 20, 2010, 05:17 PM	#3
Ditto_95 Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2007 Location: Central Kentucky Posts: 154	That is my understanding as well. __________________ Finem Respice Consider the end Principils Obsta Resist the beginings

December 20, 2010, 10:43 PM	#4
Gary Slider Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2006 Location: New Martinsville, WV Posts: 431	Not So. In some states a sign on private property has the force of law. If you go into a furniture store that has a sign you can be charged with trespassing or a law that specifically spells out that people carrying firearms can't enter those places. I will agree in some states Signs on private property do not have the force of law but you had better watch out because in many states they do have the force of law. __________________ ___________ Gary Slider Co-Owner Handgunlaw.us Member Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network.

December 21, 2010, 09:25 PM	#5
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,820	It does, and it doesn"t.... Depending on the specific place and state laws. The example of a furniture store is a fair one, if we contrast it with a bar/Tavern, or a bank. State laws prohibit carry of arms in specific private places (like those serving alcohol, or a bank), just as they do certain public places. However, they do not generally bar the carry of arms on other private property, like a furniture store, or a mall, or the 40 acres of woodlot owned by a paper company, or the farmer down the road. In those privately owned places not specified in law (open to the public, or not), a "no guns" sign means nothing, legally. It means something to the owner, and gives them a reason to order you off their property, if they desire (not that they need one, legally) but it carries no force of law. What I mean is, that you cannot be charged with carrying a gun in Homer's Furniture, absent specific state or local ordinance against carrying. Homer can tell you to leave, because he doesn't want guns in his place, that's his right. But he can't have the law after you for having a gun in defiance of his sign. However, any action other than immediately leaving when Homer says so (including arguing about our Constitutional rights) makes you guilty of trespass, and Homer can sic the law on you for that, and likely will. Just as you can be charged with trespass when crossing "posted" land. There is in law a process for posting land against trespass, but there is none that I am familiar with concerning a "no gun" sign. At least, so far. But, as pointed out, different locals may have differing laws, so check yours carefully. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

December 21, 2010, 10:49 PM	#6
doctruptwn Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2008 Location: Kansas Posts: 197	I'm Sorry But I will have to side with Gary on this one. I'll Use the same Furniture Store scenario. Until July 1,2010. If a furniture store in the state of Kansas was displaying a "No Gun" sign and you were caught passing that sign, You would be charged with a Class "C" felony and have you CCW permit suspended, Jail time, and if successfully prosecuted lose your right to own fiearms. Now fortunately this changed this year, However, there is now a $50 fine for the first time you get caught, $100 fine for the second time, and then "3rd strike your out" Suspended license and the whole being charged and going to jail thing. Another example, In Arkansas, you have to have the property owners permission to carry into a private residence. No posting required __________________ Kansas Concealed Carry Last edited by doctruptwn; December 21, 2010 at 10:55 PM.

December 22, 2010, 07:29 AM	#7
Ditto_95 Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2007 Location: Central Kentucky Posts: 154	Concealed means concealed. If you are asked to leave because you are carrying a firearm, it would be because you did not hold up your end of the responsibilty. On the other side, why even visit a business if they don't want you there? __________________ Finem Respice Consider the end Principils Obsta Resist the beginings

January 9, 2011, 10:50 AM	#8
starbuck125 Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2009 Location: kentucky Posts: 140	in ky carrying a concealed weapon without premit is a class A mis. my nephew found this out a week ago. he was on his way to cut out overgrown brush off my mothers farm for deer hunting this fall when he stopped at the local store for a coke. I was on his side, he had his coat zipped up and gun wasn't concealed at the time, but when he went tp pay for the coke , he unzipped the coat to reach inside pocket for money, forgot to rezip it, hence coat covering the butt of the weapon. he walked out as the sheriff, who was also stopping for a drink pulled in. sheriff seen hoslster, stopped him , asked for his premit, and where he was going, kid told him where he was going but no premit . sheriff ran the gun , came up clean, charged him with conclealed weapon, took the gun, gave him a court date and let him go. sheriff told him that he'd prob get it back, just to explain to the judge that happened and why he was carry it and so forth.

January 10, 2011, 03:44 PM	#9
Tallyman Member Join Date: May 26, 2004 Location: Monument, CO Posts: 29	Please explain. . . . does carrying a handgun without a round in the chamber still require a concealed carry license? Does a "No Gun" sign also apply to the police?