First encounter with police since permit issue - a much different outcome

[1776 Patriat]

Thank you Conn. Trooper. The reason I brought that up is because the way the Officers approached his car, with guns to there sides. This hasn't happened to anyone in our family prior to them both getting there permits. They were stopped for a minor traffic violation, and in fact were told by the Manchester officers that that was there 'policy' when stopping citizens who may be carrying firearms. I don't know, It may be a local issue in which some towns have this information in there database? Either way, I don't think that is a good 'policy' for law abiding citizens.

Steve

[publius42]

Conn Trooper,

The officer did not write down the number. He was standing right by my truck, holding the gun in one hand and his microphone key with the other and reading the number to someone downtown. If that someone was just punching it into a database of stolen guns and it came back "not found" then you're probably right that it is not stored anywhere. Thanks for the additional info.

[woodguru]

What are you talking about "the government has no way of knowing what guns you have"?

Unless it's different in your state where do you think the felony check and serial number information goes if the federal government doesn't know exactly what guns are registered to you?

The only guns you might have that big brother doesn't have a record of are those you bought from a private party and not registered to you or handed down or bought from relatives or friends.

[Conn. Trooper]

1776, I have never walked up to a vehicle with a gun drawn as a regular course of business, I don't know anyone who does around me. If the stop is a felony stop it's the old " Open the door and get out with hands up and turn around, walk backwards towards me" type of stop everyone sees on Cops. Otherwise it's like every other old traffic stop.

There may be more to the story, I was working one night when we had an armed robbery and I was right in the area. The suspect vehicle was a red four door car. I happened to drive up on a red four door Dodge Neon. I walked up on the car with gun drawn, saw it wasn't the suspect, just a kid I knew and cut him loose. I don't believe he ever even saw my gun was out, and I told him we were looking for a suspect in a red car, so he wasn't scratching his head going " What the heck was that?" If that was the case I would have explained that, not left people wondering. Manchester is a big, busy town. They are right next to Hartford and deal with a good amount of bad guys, I can't see them getting worked up over two people with permit's carrying, there may have been something else going on.

[Ditto_95]

Woodguru, that is not always the case.
In Kentucky, if you have a CCDW permit, no call in to NICS is required.
Just fill out the form and hand over the cash and you are on your way.
I know other states have the same situation.

[Shane Tuttle]

Originally Posted by MLeake

To Shane Tuttle, I am not saying not to declare. I am saying I start with the permit. I would follow with verbal, but the trooper beat me to it in this case. I think starting with "I have a gun" could go all sorts of wrong.

I'm not implying you're willfully breaking the law. On the contrary, I believe you're describing sound practices in dealing with LE officials. I wanted to extract more details out of your encounter to get a better picture of what happened in order to provide my opinion in the form of constructive criticism. As you stated, you didn't have the chance to verbally declare you're currently carrying concealed. That's commonly encountered and is certainly understood. And, no, you don't need to say "I have a gun" to start the conversation. I'd say after the greet "As I have provided my CCW permit, I'm currently exercising my privelages".

Above all, I do agree 100% being polite is the best course of action...

Originally Posted by woodguru

What are you talking about "the government has no way of knowing what guns you have"?

There are several legal ways of owning a firearm that the government has no knowledge.

[ncpatriot]

Just a detail, but here in NC, we are told not to present or reach for permit or ID, just have hands visible on wheel, window open enough to converse or pass documents. When officer approaches, keep hands on wheel & state being a permit holder with a weapon. He will then decide how to handle it. He can ask for the weapon, ask for ID & permit, or just ask for license & registration. Entirely up to his judgment. If not in a vehicle, keep hands in front of you & declare same way.

But I'm sure an officer wouldn't get upset if one had hands on wheel with permit & ID held in sight as well. I just find it easier to wait until he asks.

Most LEO's in our state are very respectful of armed citizens. I've declared 4 or 5 occasions when approached by an officer or vice versa, if I approach him for some reason. Never had one ask me to disarm. Other permit holders I know have similar reports.

[ncpatriot]

Conn. Trooper, I think an LEO in NC sees a red flag of some sort. Our permits carry same ID# as drivers license. I've been told, not by anyone official, that it cross references on systems. I'm pretty sure insurance, registration & tax info is now cross referenced here as well.

Your citizens are fortunate to have a man like you in law enforcement. You seem to have the right attitude toward them & I'm sure those who know you appreciate it.

[ncpatriot]

Conn. Trooper, I just heard back from a friend who is an NC Highway Patrol officer. When he runs a driver's license #, it flashes on screen if that driver has a ccw permit. I had thought something like that.

[Conn. Trooper]

Hmm, ours doesn't. I would have to go look in another database for that info.

[sixgun67]

ncpatriot, when I took my class, the officer told us that we MUST hand our permit with our drivers license at any time whatsoever that we are asked for our license, if we are carrying. Naturally, if we aren't carrying, no need to show CCW. That's what I was told.
Different instructors, different instructions.
I've been thru a few road blocks and not had any 'nervous' cops yet, but did have one that saw my revolver on the truck seat as I was stopping. I didn't know that until I told him I had it and handed over my CCW with my DL. He only asked what the gun's status was. I said loaded, he said ok.

sixgun

[ncpatriot]

Conn. Trooper, I thought they were crossreferenced when I saw same #as on driver's license, only with an NC suffix added.

Sixgun67, I'm not sure we are all told the same details. My instructor was a sheriff's deputy, so I assumed he taught what LEO's would prefer to see. Maybe he was avoiding the scenario of an officer seeing someone digging around & wondering what was happening. I've yet to be stopped & disclose from driver's seat, or as a passenger, but I can see his point, that sitting still with hands in sight is the best starting point. If he already suspects I'm armed, digging around for stuff as he approaches may make him nervous. In the scheme of things though, if I can quickly pull my ID's & have them ready, I doubt that would be a problem to any officer stopping me. Conn. Trooper, what would you rather see; is there a prescribed order of things in your state?

When my wife & I were rear ended in an accident was my 1st time disclosing. Other driver & I were directing traffic when 1st officer arrived. We all spoke a second, I faced him with my hands together in front of me & quietly told him I was a permit holder & was armed. He didn't bat an eye, just said "OK, let's get the cars moved to this parking lot". Never asked for my ID's at all. Got my wife's ID, as she was the driver.

[Conn. Trooper]

Maybe in NC, but all I would get is what comes through NCIC. I wouldn't get pistol permit info, I don't think. I have never noticed it, but I work out in the sticks, so I don't stop too many people from NC. Maybe our highway guys would know, they stop a lot more cars from out of state.

[Aguila Blanca]

Connecticut, like Pennsylvania, claims they don't have firearms registration. Nonetheless, EVERY handgun purchase in Connecticut requires a State Police approval, and in addition to the 4473 (or instead of it, if it's a private sale) there is a state form that asks all the same questions and records the data of the buyer and the handgun. This is a 4-part form. One copy goes to the State Police, one copy goes to the local police department where the buyer lives.

It is highly unlikely that both the state and local police don't immediately enter that data into a database. What it requires to access that database is something to which I am not privy.

But, hey -- at least it isn't "registration."

[sixgun67]

My instructor was a sheriff's deputy, so I assumed he taught what LEO's would prefer to see.

Could be. My instructor was a town cop at the time, now he's a sheriff deputy. He's been teaching for many years--probably teaching what he himself would prefer?

sixgun

[Vince302]

I have been stopped several times since my CCW permit. They have always been very polite.

FWIW a few years ago when I was trying to buy a CMP M1 Garand I went to the local police station to get finger printed. This was the time period when the BATF was accused of over stepping their authority and the NRA accused them of being Jack Booted Thugs. As was my luck all the patrolmen were out and I got one of the detectives. He asked what I needed finger prints for and I told him it was for the CMP program. He was totally clueless and when I told him I was going to buy an M1 Garand I thought he was going to arrest me. He kept saying what do you need an M1 Garand for? I calmly explained what the CMP program was and that it was in affiliation with the NRA. He then went on another tirade about the NRA. I finally got my prints and paper work and got out of there, but I was really getting worked up. Went home and called the NRA ILA and told them about it. I don't know if that had anything to do with it, but about a month later that detective was no longer with the police department.

Vince

[ncpatriot]

I didn't like having to do prints for a CCW permit. Truth is, I don't like having to get permits for a Constitutional right. I decided I wanted the protection of a firearm enough to risk the authorities knowing I had it. But I never heard of having to do prints for a long gun of any description. Is that a specific requirement of CMP or just your state? I looked at their website briefly. Their guns seemed way overpriced for their stated condition.

Your experience with the detective tells me we have 2 distinct classes of police officers. Those like the guys who post here, who fully understand and respect the armed citizen and those that think "we're the only ones who need guns, why do you want one?". The latter is good tyrant material.

[Vince302]

The paper work and the prints are required by the Fed on a CMP purchase. You say the prices seem high. Have you priced an M1 Garand in a gun shop lately? They are well over $1000 in just about any condition. I paid $425 for my Garand about eight years ago. Several times at the range I have been approached to sell it, the last offer recently was $1500. I got an M1 in good to excellent condition. All CMP firearms have been though refurbishment at a government armory. I can literally drive tacks with my Garand at 100 yards. They are now offering M1 Carbines and I would like to have one of those also.

Vince

[Glenn E. Meyer]

My take is to politely inform. In TX, we had to and I never had a problem with officers or deputies. Should slow down - . Two let me go.

I don't know what kind of day the officer had. I don't know his or her personality characteristics. I don't know about their gun handling.

I don't want to face a gun, if mine is discovered as a surprise. There may be finger on the trigger of the gun pointed at me. The officer could get startled. Or just be nasty. Did you know that just swinging a gun around in a normal movement with finger on the trigger can fire some pulls? Did you know that about a fifth of officers in simulations exercises have their fingers on the trigger and swear they don't? If you are of some ethnicities, furtive movements and facial expressions are more likely to be misinterpreted?

In the abstract that shouldn't happen but I've read the various pro literatures on why a gun goes boom when it shouldn't. I prefer not to be there.

Yes, I have my rights. I am a good guy. Long live the Constitution - but things go wrong. By all that's holy - I don't want to be holey.

[ncpatriot]

I'm no expert, & the prices for M1's may be good. But the time I checked awhile back, CMP was getting 200 some dollars & more for rifles like 1903 Springfield & 1917 Enfield. Footnotes even said the rifles may not be in working condition, or something to that effect. I couldn't pay several hundred for something I couldn't use.

[Ditto_95]

Glenn, I understand your preference to be wholely.

[Wheeler1]

Here in Texas, I've been told, when you are being pulled over, your plates are run and if you are a CCW holder, it will come up. I'm not sure if this is the case though.

I always carry my license, proof of insurance and CCW in my shirt pocket, day or night and since getting my CCW 9 years ago, have only been stopped twice. Once was because I had no tail lights (I was a deputy and a former inmate had cut my tail light wires), by a Sate Trooper I knew. When he saw it was me, we had a good laugh, I put on the emergency flashers and went home. The second time, was about three years ago, AGAIN because of a light out. This was a city LEO and it was at night. He came to the car and I already had my documents out of my shirt pocket, the interior lights on and the window rolled down with my hands on the wheel. I informed him that I was armed, where my pistols were and all he said was 'can you keep your hands on the wheel, Sir?' I said, "Yes Sir". When he came back, I told him I had an extra light in the truck if he could get me across the road safely to a service station, I'd change it right then. He did, I did, and then he thanked me for my Marine Corps service. I thanked him for his service 'on the job' and that was it. VERY polite and professional.

If it could always be so easy.

[Ramman911]

An off the wall question...

When pulled over and the police officer DOES ask for your weapon "to keep the situation safe for him/her" is it good practice to pop out the magazine and clear the chamber before handing it over or better to just hand it over?

I recently have gotten my CCW and have yet to be pulled over and want to make sure i don't send the cop into a Barny Fife mode.

Thanks

[MLeake]

I would recommend asking the officer, then doing it the way he prefers and expects.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Do what he or she says. Don't manipulate the gun in any manner not requested.

If they see you playing with a gun on the way to your car, that will alert them and not to your benefit.