Having a problem with Lee dies and Accurate #2

RepentantMonkey · February 25, 2013, 08:25 PM

I used to be an avid reloader but have been away from it for about 5 years. I purchased a Lee rotary press, dies, and accessories from a friend of mine to get back into reloading.

The 9mm die set from Lee says that, if using Accurate #2, 115 grain jacketed 9mm should be loaded with either a .3 Lee dipper (which throws about 4.0 grains) or a .34 auto disc (which does the same). I have both and have used them both.

However, loads made from either are consistently failing to cycle my Glock 17. ???

According to the latest Accurate load data from their website, Accurate #2 for the Sierra 15 gr FMJ is between 3.7 and 4.6 grains. Shouldn't 4.0 grains be a good mid-level load?

What am I missing?

Sport45 · February 25, 2013, 08:56 PM

I'm missing the problem with Lee dies mentioned in the title.

The normal solution for rounds that fire, but don't cycle an autoloader is to up the charge a bit. Does the next step up on your autodisk give greater than max loads?

I am assuming the weights you stated are actually weighed and not taken from a conversion chart. Lee supplies a dipper and data with each die set that produces a safe load. Not necessarily the best load.

RepentantMonkey · February 25, 2013, 09:08 PM

Sport45,

Sorry. I misstated the issue. It is with the LOAD DATA that came with the Lee dies, not the dies themselves.

I can up the load to a .37 on the auto disc but I always try to stay in the middle of the load ranges and that would put it right at the max.

And yes ... I measured the loads on a scale.

Accurate #2 said on the can that is is clean burning. 'low pressure' so maybe I will switch to #5 and see how those perform at the recommended loads for that powder.

Thanks!

david_r · February 25, 2013, 10:29 PM

Are you at the AA COL? If you load long, it will drop pressure. If you load short, it will increase pressure. It sounds like you don't have enough energy to cycle your glock. If it is in sound mechanical condition, clean and lubricated and were MINE, I would step up to the next disc size and see if it doesn't throw less than the listed maximum.

Why do you want to go to a different powder when you are 10% below published maximum loads? #5 is suited to developing maximum velocity out of the 9mm. If that is what you are looking for....

j357 · February 25, 2013, 11:13 PM

I'll offer some help straight from the 2nd Ed Lee handbook and my personal experience.
First, my disks throw less than the published loads, YMMV.
The handbook has a chart at the end that gives you and expected weight based on volumetric density of the powders. For Accurate 2 it lists the following: .30disk=3.6g; .32disk=3.8g .34disk=4.1g; .37disk=4.4g; .40disk=4.8g.

If your .30 disk only throws 3.6g of A2 you are just below the minimum load.

Standard disclaimers apply: Your disks and batch of powder may result in slight differences and potentially dangerous results. You are responsible for verifying through testing and load work up that your loads are safe.

Use all of your resources to their fullest extent. Don't skip steps and rely on what others tell you on the interweb. Measure carefully and use a scale is my recommendation.

Cyberbach · February 25, 2013, 11:39 PM

...or get a Lee perfect powder measure and use the micrometer to dial in exactly what you need. Just got one myself and I'll never use the old Lee slider again.

david_r · February 26, 2013, 01:10 AM

curious what V3.4 of AA reloading manual shows for 9mm. Why the huge drop in charge weight?

ljnowell · February 26, 2013, 03:51 AM

There is no need to change powder, simply work closer to max. AA2 will cycle the slide just fine

Misssissippi Dave · February 26, 2013, 08:16 AM

I have used AA2 with a 115 grain JHP bullet in 9 mm. My OAL was 1.080" This is shorter than you would use for a FMJ. 4.0 grains wouldn't cycle my pistols. 4.2 grains would if you kept a very good solid grip on them. It took 4.4 grains of powder to cycle properly. I prefer using AA5 powder in 9 mm of the two powders you mention.

RepentantMonkey · February 26, 2013, 08:41 AM

I think that Cyberbach hit the nail on the head. I need more fine control over the powder than the auto-disc gives me. I need to order a Lee perfect powder measure and I can dial in the loads exactly.

RepentantMonkey · February 26, 2013, 08:43 AM

David_R,

I only have the 3.5 load data. I will do a little Googling and see if I can find the 3.4 data anywhere.

Sport45 · February 26, 2013, 08:34 PM

Quote:

I need to order a Lee perfect powder measure and I can dial in the loads exactly.

I think you can get an adjustable charge bar for your auto disc. That would work too. I just don't know where to tell you to find one in stock.

spacecoast · February 26, 2013, 09:23 PM

4.1 grains of AA#2 and 115 grain plated bullets work well in my P95 and my Hi Point carbine with a COL of 1.14"

ljnowell · February 27, 2013, 04:21 AM

Quote:

I think that Cyberbach hit the nail on the head. I need more fine control over the powder than the auto-disc gives me. I need to order a Lee perfect powder measure and I can dial in the loads exactly.

Get the lee adjustable charge bar, its all I use. I can do AA2 from 2.5gr up with perfect accuracy every time

February 25, 2013, 08:25 PM	#1
RepentantMonkey Junior Member Join Date: June 25, 2007 Posts: 5	Having a problem with Lee dies and Accurate #2 I used to be an avid reloader but have been away from it for about 5 years. I purchased a Lee rotary press, dies, and accessories from a friend of mine to get back into reloading. The 9mm die set from Lee says that, if using Accurate #2, 115 grain jacketed 9mm should be loaded with either a .3 Lee dipper (which throws about 4.0 grains) or a .34 auto disc (which does the same). I have both and have used them both. However, loads made from either are consistently failing to cycle my Glock 17. ??? According to the latest Accurate load data from their website, Accurate #2 for the Sierra 15 gr FMJ is between 3.7 and 4.6 grains. Shouldn't 4.0 grains be a good mid-level load? What am I missing?

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February 25, 2013, 08:56 PM	#2
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	I'm missing the problem with Lee dies mentioned in the title. The normal solution for rounds that fire, but don't cycle an autoloader is to up the charge a bit. Does the next step up on your autodisk give greater than max loads? I am assuming the weights you stated are actually weighed and not taken from a conversion chart. Lee supplies a dipper and data with each die set that produces a safe load. Not necessarily the best load. __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.

February 25, 2013, 09:08 PM	#3
RepentantMonkey Junior Member Join Date: June 25, 2007 Posts: 5	Sport45, Sorry. I misstated the issue. It is with the LOAD DATA that came with the Lee dies, not the dies themselves. I can up the load to a .37 on the auto disc but I always try to stay in the middle of the load ranges and that would put it right at the max. And yes ... I measured the loads on a scale. Accurate #2 said on the can that is is clean burning. 'low pressure' so maybe I will switch to #5 and see how those perform at the recommended loads for that powder. Thanks!

February 25, 2013, 10:29 PM	#4
david_r Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2013 Posts: 131	Are you at the AA COL? If you load long, it will drop pressure. If you load short, it will increase pressure. It sounds like you don't have enough energy to cycle your glock. If it is in sound mechanical condition, clean and lubricated and were MINE, I would step up to the next disc size and see if it doesn't throw less than the listed maximum. Why do you want to go to a different powder when you are 10% below published maximum loads? #5 is suited to developing maximum velocity out of the 9mm. If that is what you are looking for....

February 25, 2013, 11:13 PM	#5
j357 Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2009 Location: Liberty Twp, OH Posts: 283	I'll offer some help straight from the 2nd Ed Lee handbook and my personal experience. First, my disks throw less than the published loads, YMMV. The handbook has a chart at the end that gives you and expected weight based on volumetric density of the powders. For Accurate 2 it lists the following: .30disk=3.6g; .32disk=3.8g .34disk=4.1g; .37disk=4.4g; .40disk=4.8g. If your .30 disk only throws 3.6g of A2 you are just below the minimum load. Standard disclaimers apply: Your disks and batch of powder may result in slight differences and potentially dangerous results. You are responsible for verifying through testing and load work up that your loads are safe. Use all of your resources to their fullest extent. Don't skip steps and rely on what others tell you on the interweb. Measure carefully and use a scale is my recommendation.

February 25, 2013, 11:39 PM	#6
Cyberbach Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Posts: 22	...or get a Lee perfect powder measure and use the micrometer to dial in exactly what you need. Just got one myself and I'll never use the old Lee slider again.

February 26, 2013, 01:10 AM	#7
david_r Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2013 Posts: 131	curious what V3.4 of AA reloading manual shows for 9mm. Why the huge drop in charge weight?

February 26, 2013, 03:51 AM	#8
ljnowell Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Posts: 274	There is no need to change powder, simply work closer to max. AA2 will cycle the slide just fine

February 26, 2013, 08:16 AM	#9
Misssissippi Dave Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Posts: 1,411	I have used AA2 with a 115 grain JHP bullet in 9 mm. My OAL was 1.080" This is shorter than you would use for a FMJ. 4.0 grains wouldn't cycle my pistols. 4.2 grains would if you kept a very good solid grip on them. It took 4.4 grains of powder to cycle properly. I prefer using AA5 powder in 9 mm of the two powders you mention.

February 26, 2013, 08:41 AM	#10
RepentantMonkey Junior Member Join Date: June 25, 2007 Posts: 5	I think that Cyberbach hit the nail on the head. I need more fine control over the powder than the auto-disc gives me. I need to order a Lee perfect powder measure and I can dial in the loads exactly.

February 26, 2013, 08:43 AM	#11
RepentantMonkey Junior Member Join Date: June 25, 2007 Posts: 5	David_R, I only have the 3.5 load data. I will do a little Googling and see if I can find the 3.4 data anywhere.

February 26, 2013, 09:23 PM	#13
spacecoast Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: Sunshine and Keystone States Posts: 4,461	4.1 grains of AA#2 and 115 grain plated bullets work well in my P95 and my Hi Point carbine with a COL of 1.14"