1911 sales really slow?

9x19 · August 7, 2014, 03:50 AM

So says the owner of the LGS.

He stocks Ruger, Kimber, Springfield, Colt, Sig and Rock Island and says he's never seen it so slow... so I was wondering how the 1911 sales are in your area?

He also stocks most of the other non-1911 styles; Beretta, Glock, Sig, Ruger, etc.

JERRYS. · August 7, 2014, 05:16 AM

1911s are not a novice's gun, though some novices buy them just the same.

ive seen in my area that most handgun sales are from those new to the game, not those already well practiced.

UncleEd · August 7, 2014, 05:59 AM

Considering how many manufacturers turn out the 1911, it's a wonder any of them are surviving. A market for a product that essentially doesn't wear out is only so big.

I think the writing is on the wall when one considers Wilson Combat which makes custom 1911s. BUT... it caters to the aftermarket for the Beretta 92 and the Glock to widen its market.

And while Smith & Wesson and Sig turn out 1911s, I'm sure it's only a small part of their output compared to other guns they make.

Also, it's not just the 1911 market. All gun sales have slowed considerably since a year or two ago when the "scare" was on and people never thought of buying a gun did so.

I'm told the AR market has sunk considerably as well because everyone who wanted one has one or two already. Gun stores are loaded with every jimcracky AR variation by many manufacturers

Auto5 · August 7, 2014, 06:29 AM

Illinois finally began issuing concealed carry licenses this year, so the smaller, lighter poly guns are selling well here. I just traded one for a RIA 1911 from someone who wanted a smaller CCW.

kcub · August 7, 2014, 08:10 AM

It takes 18 months to get a Wilson from an order placed today. Other high end 1911 makers have similar timelines. A low end 1911 you can have today. Two completely different markets.

UncleEd · August 7, 2014, 08:21 AM

True, Wilson and Brown etc. are different markets than the bread and butter 1911s in profusion. But within a half an hour of my place, I could buy over the counter brand new Wilsons and Browns and Nighthawks without waiting though of course they wouldn't necessarily be to someone's minute specifications.

These are brand new and they sit, and it, right along with the Colts, Springfields, Rugers in the 1911 case.

I think sometimes an outfit like Wilson takes 18 months to fill a personal order, it's because the company is also cranking out over the counter models that are probably no different than the special order ones. Only so many can be made at a time so the special order ones wait.

TunnelRat · August 7, 2014, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Considering how many manufacturers turn out the 1911, it's a wonder any of them are surviving. A market for a product that essentially doesn't wear out is only so big.

I think the writing is on the wall when one considers Wilson Combat which makes custom 1911s. BUT... it caters to the aftermarket for the Beretta 92 and the Glock to widen its market.

And while Smith & Wesson and Sig turn out 1911s, I'm sure it's only a small part of their output compared to other guns they make.

Also, it's not just the 1911 market. All gun sales have slowed considerably since a year or two ago when the "scare" was on and people never thought of buying a gun did so.

I'm told the AR market has sunk considerably as well because everyone who wanted one has one or two already. Gun stores are loaded with every jimcracky AR variation by many manufacturers

+1000. The gun market is just swamped right now. During the scare my lgs was down to 50 or so used handguns total. That number now is right around 450. The cases are full of everything, and not a lot of folks are buying. The folks that do seem to be buying are a lot of new shooters who don't seem to typically go for the 1911 as their first gun, and more so aren't directed that way by the sales staff.

UZO · August 7, 2014, 09:48 AM

Plus .45 ammo is at about $40+ for a box of 100-rnds... Not a cheap day at the range!!!
.

madmo44mag · August 7, 2014, 10:25 AM

A lot of great and valid points made.
I shoot a lot with a large and ever changing group of people.
What I have observed is most people buy middle of the road 1911’s and many are from the used market.
Very few shooters ever buy higher end 1911 such as Colt, Wilson Combat, Kinber and other custom makers.
Price is always an issue.
Now we do have a few hard core 1911 guys that shoot nothing but Colts, Kimbers and Wilsons but they are the acceptation.
The most expensive 1911 I own is a Para LDA; which I love and most people hate – LOL!!!
The rest of my 1911’s are middle of the road guns and all bought off the used market.
I also see no shortage of used 1911’s which tells me the market is glutted with them.
A lot of new shooter bought them and found they really did not like the weight or coast of shooting the gun.
I have known many that have bought 1911’s and traded them for 9mm and 380’s; another market that I feel is glutted as well
Another thing to consider is when the “SCARE” was on gun manufacturers ramped up production to meet demand. Demand has fallen off so production levels are returning to normal.
Now if ammo supply and loading supplies ever level off we will all be much happier campers.

8MM Mauser · August 7, 2014, 10:58 AM

I won't buy one until I can afford a Colt...

Unlicensed Dremel · August 7, 2014, 11:00 AM

I don't think it's anything distinct to 1911 - I think *all* sales are down of guns.... Hard to keep an 8 year boom going strong with a durable good.

Guv · August 7, 2014, 12:23 PM

I think it's people trying to pay off those credit card debts due to all the panic buying.

BigJimP · August 7, 2014, 12:28 PM

Handgun sales are down in general in my area...--- but they're still doing ok .../ but sales are down from the "scare days" both for lower end priced guns....and the higher end more custom models.

I think we are still seeing new shooters enter the market ...in my area.../ but 90% or more of them are shopping in the $ 400 - $ 800 price bracket and that includes 1911's.

I don't know if its 5% - or 25% of the shooters out there....that want, and can afford, and will buy something more "custom" or "different" from the crowd. I have a buddy that owns a gunshop in the area...and he's still stocking higher end 1911's...( Les Baer and Wilson Combat ) ...and he is selling 1 or 2 a month of those mfg's 1911's. While its true that many of us, that want something special - will spec every detail of it and wait the 18 months or whatever it takes to get it ---- there are still some guys that want the instant gratification / and will buy a Wilson or Baer from inventory.

Personally, I'm glad the "crazy buying days" are over...its good to see some inventory come back on popular models.../ and the well run shops will continue to be smart - and do well.

Yung.gunr · August 7, 2014, 01:05 PM

I think a large part has to do with how many options there are on the market as well. Right now we have more options than any other time in history. Not only manufacturers but also their different small differences.

I for one always wanted a 1911 but I think as I re-evaluate my purchases I don't think I would buy one unless I came into a grip of unexpected funds. Just not really high on the want list anymore.

BarryLee · August 7, 2014, 01:32 PM

The attached article states that while gun sales have been brisk they are indeed falling off. S&W is actually warning investors to expect even further drops in the new fiscal year. I also saw another article a few weeks back which made the point that even though gun sales were up the number of individual gun buyers was down. So, as that shrinking group of gun buyers gets all they want/need the industry will have to attract new buyers.

http://money.cnn.com/2014/06/20/news...sson-earnings/

LockedBreech · August 7, 2014, 02:06 PM

AR-15 companies and 1911 companies really exploded in recent years with all the bursts of demand. That's likely over for now, pursuing gun control cost a lot of political capital for little result, which the politicians will remember for a little while at least.

While the demand bursts were great for guns in general, there are going to be a good number of companies, especially AR-15 companies, that don't survive the fall-off.

Speaking as a cold-hearted capitalist, it's going to be an amazing window to pick up some great deals. There are already Colt LE6920s with full Magpul gear selling regularly for under 1K, and it's gonna get better for them and for 1911s too.

cougar gt-e · August 7, 2014, 02:07 PM

Supply and demand.

Supply is high and demand is flat to down. Simple economics. Prices are lowering to try and attract buyers. I just saw a 1911 with tacticool beaver tail, etc for $319.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...gfx-45-gi.html

Compared to 9-12 months ago, it's a good time to buy.

**Aguila Blanca** · August 7, 2014, 07:44 PM

It's vacation time. ALL gun sales are slow right now (according to two gun shops owners I know). I also know that one of them recently sold a Commander that he had on display for less than a week.

Hurryin' Hoosier · August 7, 2014, 07:50 PM

Easy to explain. Word got out that I had bought a new Auto-Ordnance 1911A1, so sales of the other brands plummeted.

rickmelear · August 7, 2014, 07:52 PM

They ain't for everyone. Fit, finish and pride of ownership are the key. I own several and I love the feel but if push comes to shove I'll be holding a Glock. That said, I'll always own more 1911s than I can shoot, just because they shoot so damn well. Just sayin

bricz75 · August 9, 2014, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Gun stores are loaded with every jimcracky AR variation by many manufacturers

It's nuts how many manufacturers and variations there are. I think some manufacturers will go out of business, though.

RX-79G · August 9, 2014, 09:17 PM

I would bet that the proliferation of 1911s, with the attached mixed reviews, makes it a difficult choice for consumers. Name any brand and you'll alternately hear that it is the next thing sliced bread or a glass fragile MIM jam-o-matic.

If I had a choice of either a $1200 Kimber or a $300 Armscor to defend my life, I don't know which one I'd pick. That's a confusing marketplace.

bricz75 · August 9, 2014, 09:52 PM

Quote:

I would bet that the proliferation of 1911s, with the attached mixed reviews, makes it a difficult choice for consumers. Name any brand and you'll alternately hear that it is the next thing sliced bread or a glass fragile MIM jam-o-matic.

Off Topic: That's funny.

Quote:

If I had a choice of either a $1200 Kimber or a $300 Armscor to defend my life, I don't know which one I'd pick. That's a confusing marketplace.

To confuse things a little more, how about the Kimber if you KNEW it would get through the break-in period without any issues? Or if the retailer will let you return the Kimber for refund after a day at the range?

RX-79G · August 9, 2014, 10:23 PM

You're right - that confuses things even more. Another Glock sale to follow.

Shadi Khalil · August 9, 2014, 11:16 PM

From what I can tell at my favorite shops, things are slow around. There is no storage of anything; all the cases are stocked to the brims, from 1911 to J-frames.

As I'm sure it was said before me, "1911" is not a brand so you can't really say "1911 sales are slow". However, over the past 6 months, I have talked to a lot of people at work and in my neighborhood who are buying their first guns. Nearly all of them are buying or bought M&P's or Glocks, with the occasional HK and revolver thrown in for good measure. None of those first time buyer mentioned 1911's. Of course that has more to do with marketing, caliber, friends, salesmen than it does 1911's.

August 7, 2014, 03:50 AM	#1
9x19 Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 1998 Location: Sherman, TX USA Posts: 3,750	1911 sales really slow? So says the owner of the LGS. He stocks Ruger, Kimber, Springfield, Colt, Sig and Rock Island and says he's never seen it so slow... so I was wondering how the 1911 sales are in your area? He also stocks most of the other non-1911 styles; Beretta, Glock, Sig, Ruger, etc. __________________ Make mine lean, mean, and 9x19!

August 7, 2014, 06:29 AM	#4
Auto5 Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2013 Location: Chicago suburbs Posts: 662	Illinois finally began issuing concealed carry licenses this year, so the smaller, lighter poly guns are selling well here. I just traded one for a RIA 1911 from someone who wanted a smaller CCW. __________________ At the young age of five, a bear told me that I was the only person who could prevent forest fires. Why I was chosen, I'll never know.

August 7, 2014, 09:48 AM	#8
UZO Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2011 Location: Ohio Posts: 132	Plus .45 ammo is at about $40+ for a box of 100-rnds... Not a cheap day at the range!!! . __________________ A bunch of SIGs, CZs, BHPs, COLTs, DWs and a couple other...

August 7, 2014, 10:25 AM	#9
madmo44mag Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2008 Location: Ft.Worth, Texas Posts: 1,522	A lot of great and valid points made. I shoot a lot with a large and ever changing group of people. What I have observed is most people buy middle of the road 1911’s and many are from the used market. Very few shooters ever buy higher end 1911 such as Colt, Wilson Combat, Kinber and other custom makers. Price is always an issue. Now we do have a few hard core 1911 guys that shoot nothing but Colts, Kimbers and Wilsons but they are the acceptation. The most expensive 1911 I own is a Para LDA; which I love and most people hate – LOL!!! The rest of my 1911’s are middle of the road guns and all bought off the used market. I also see no shortage of used 1911’s which tells me the market is glutted with them. A lot of new shooter bought them and found they really did not like the weight or coast of shooting the gun. I have known many that have bought 1911’s and traded them for 9mm and 380’s; another market that I feel is glutted as well Another thing to consider is when the “SCARE” was on gun manufacturers ramped up production to meet demand. Demand has fallen off so production levels are returning to normal. Now if ammo supply and loading supplies ever level off we will all be much happier campers. __________________ Texas - Not just a state but an attitude! For monthly shooting events in DFW visit http://www.meetup.com/TexasGunOwner-DFW

August 7, 2014, 01:32 PM	#15
BarryLee Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2010 Location: The ATL (OTP) Posts: 3,946	The attached article states that while gun sales have been brisk they are indeed falling off. S&W is actually warning investors to expect even further drops in the new fiscal year. I also saw another article a few weeks back which made the point that even though gun sales were up the number of individual gun buyers was down. So, as that shrinking group of gun buyers gets all they want/need the industry will have to attract new buyers. http://money.cnn.com/2014/06/20/news...sson-earnings/ __________________ A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

August 7, 2014, 05:16 AM	#2
JERRYS. Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,968	1911s are not a novice's gun, though some novices buy them just the same. ive seen in my area that most handgun sales are from those new to the game, not those already well practiced.

August 7, 2014, 05:59 AM	#3
UncleEd Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2013 Location: N. Georgia Posts: 1,150	Considering how many manufacturers turn out the 1911, it's a wonder any of them are surviving. A market for a product that essentially doesn't wear out is only so big. I think the writing is on the wall when one considers Wilson Combat which makes custom 1911s. BUT... it caters to the aftermarket for the Beretta 92 and the Glock to widen its market. And while Smith & Wesson and Sig turn out 1911s, I'm sure it's only a small part of their output compared to other guns they make. Also, it's not just the 1911 market. All gun sales have slowed considerably since a year or two ago when the "scare" was on and people never thought of buying a gun did so. I'm told the AR market has sunk considerably as well because everyone who wanted one has one or two already. Gun stores are loaded with every jimcracky AR variation by many manufacturers

August 7, 2014, 08:10 AM	#5
kcub Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2010 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 3,318	It takes 18 months to get a Wilson from an order placed today. Other high end 1911 makers have similar timelines. A low end 1911 you can have today. Two completely different markets.

August 7, 2014, 08:21 AM	#6
UncleEd Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2013 Location: N. Georgia Posts: 1,150	True, Wilson and Brown etc. are different markets than the bread and butter 1911s in profusion. But within a half an hour of my place, I could buy over the counter brand new Wilsons and Browns and Nighthawks without waiting though of course they wouldn't necessarily be to someone's minute specifications. These are brand new and they sit, and it, right along with the Colts, Springfields, Rugers in the 1911 case. I think sometimes an outfit like Wilson takes 18 months to fill a personal order, it's because the company is also cranking out over the counter models that are probably no different than the special order ones. Only so many can be made at a time so the special order ones wait.

August 7, 2014, 10:58 AM	#10
8MM Mauser Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 2011 Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan Posts: 647	I won't buy one until I can afford a Colt...

August 7, 2014, 11:00 AM	#11
Unlicensed Dremel Junior member Join Date: February 13, 2014 Location: Flathead Valley, MT Posts: 2,187	I don't think it's anything distinct to 1911 - I think all sales are down of guns.... Hard to keep an 8 year boom going strong with a durable good.

August 7, 2014, 12:23 PM	#12
Guv Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2012 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,126	I think it's people trying to pay off those credit card debts due to all the panic buying.

August 7, 2014, 12:28 PM	#13
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Handgun sales are down in general in my area...--- but they're still doing ok .../ but sales are down from the "scare days" both for lower end priced guns....and the higher end more custom models. I think we are still seeing new shooters enter the market ...in my area.../ but 90% or more of them are shopping in the $ 400 - $ 800 price bracket and that includes 1911's. I don't know if its 5% - or 25% of the shooters out there....that want, and can afford, and will buy something more "custom" or "different" from the crowd. I have a buddy that owns a gunshop in the area...and he's still stocking higher end 1911's...( Les Baer and Wilson Combat ) ...and he is selling 1 or 2 a month of those mfg's 1911's. While its true that many of us, that want something special - will spec every detail of it and wait the 18 months or whatever it takes to get it ---- there are still some guys that want the instant gratification / and will buy a Wilson or Baer from inventory. Personally, I'm glad the "crazy buying days" are over...its good to see some inventory come back on popular models.../ and the well run shops will continue to be smart - and do well.

August 7, 2014, 01:05 PM	#14
Yung.gunr Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2010 Location: Phoenix area Posts: 1,442	I think a large part has to do with how many options there are on the market as well. Right now we have more options than any other time in history. Not only manufacturers but also their different small differences. I for one always wanted a 1911 but I think as I re-evaluate my purchases I don't think I would buy one unless I came into a grip of unexpected funds. Just not really high on the want list anymore.

August 7, 2014, 02:06 PM	#16
LockedBreech Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2009 Location: Rocky Mountain West Posts: 3,395	AR-15 companies and 1911 companies really exploded in recent years with all the bursts of demand. That's likely over for now, pursuing gun control cost a lot of political capital for little result, which the politicians will remember for a little while at least. While the demand bursts were great for guns in general, there are going to be a good number of companies, especially AR-15 companies, that don't survive the fall-off. Speaking as a cold-hearted capitalist, it's going to be an amazing window to pick up some great deals. There are already Colt LE6920s with full Magpul gear selling regularly for under 1K, and it's gonna get better for them and for 1911s too. __________________ 16 Pistols, 5 Rifles, 1 Shotgun, no time to shoot them

August 7, 2014, 02:07 PM	#17
cougar gt-e Senior Member Join Date: July 25, 2009 Posts: 1,003	Supply and demand. Supply is high and demand is flat to down. Simple economics. Prices are lowering to try and attract buyers. I just saw a 1911 with tacticool beaver tail, etc for $319. http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...gfx-45-gi.html Compared to 9-12 months ago, it's a good time to buy.

August 7, 2014, 07:44 PM	#18
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,458	It's vacation time. ALL gun sales are slow right now (according to two gun shops owners I know). I also know that one of them recently sold a Commander that he had on display for less than a week.

August 7, 2014, 07:50 PM	#19
Hurryin' Hoosier Member Join Date: March 1, 2012 Location: Columbus, Indiana Posts: 98	Easy to explain. Word got out that I had bought a new Auto-Ordnance 1911A1, so sales of the other brands plummeted.

August 7, 2014, 07:52 PM	#20
rickmelear Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2005 Location: palm beach county, fl Posts: 257	They ain't for everyone. Fit, finish and pride of ownership are the key. I own several and I love the feel but if push comes to shove I'll be holding a Glock. That said, I'll always own more 1911s than I can shoot, just because they shoot so damn well. Just sayin

August 9, 2014, 09:17 PM	#22
RX-79G Junior member Join Date: October 27, 2013 Posts: 1,139	I would bet that the proliferation of 1911s, with the attached mixed reviews, makes it a difficult choice for consumers. Name any brand and you'll alternately hear that it is the next thing sliced bread or a glass fragile MIM jam-o-matic. If I had a choice of either a $1200 Kimber or a $300 Armscor to defend my life, I don't know which one I'd pick. That's a confusing marketplace.

August 9, 2014, 10:23 PM	#24
RX-79G Junior member Join Date: October 27, 2013 Posts: 1,139	You're right - that confuses things even more. Another Glock sale to follow.

August 9, 2014, 11:16 PM	#25
Shadi Khalil Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2006 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 5,210	From what I can tell at my favorite shops, things are slow around. There is no storage of anything; all the cases are stocked to the brims, from 1911 to J-frames. As I'm sure it was said before me, "1911" is not a brand so you can't really say "1911 sales are slow". However, over the past 6 months, I have talked to a lot of people at work and in my neighborhood who are buying their first guns. Nearly all of them are buying or bought M&P's or Glocks, with the occasional HK and revolver thrown in for good measure. None of those first time buyer mentioned 1911's. Of course that has more to do with marketing, caliber, friends, salesmen than it does 1911's.

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