Saiga Owners

EdInk · February 22, 2010, 12:05 AM

I was wondering if any of you Saiga 12 owners have installed the AK style pistol grip? How much did it cost? Do it yourself? Was it easy?

Technosavant · February 22, 2010, 10:32 AM

There's two ways to do it.

The quick, easy, cheap, and ugly method: just toss on a stock with a built in grip in place of the existing stock. Double check 922r issues before doing this, but this can be done in minutes for probably about $40.

The somewhat more difficult but more correct method: relocate the trigger forward into the standard position. This tends to take care of 922r all by itself because you're buying a new fire control group (3 parts), pistol grip (1 part) and stock (1 part).

I did the latter method using the Tromix modified G2 trigger group and DIY trigger guard. It took all of about 2 hours to do the actual work, but when you remove the plate that covers the real trigger hole you will expose bare metal, so you'll need to refinish the receiver (I just used Duracoat on the receiver, barrel, gas tube, and receiver cover). Total cost on my conversion was probably about $300-400, but I went to the Tromix stock with the Limbsaver pad, and those can be spendy. If you go with a cheaper standard stock you can get it all done for about $200 ($50 for the trigger group, about that for the trigger guard, prob. $60ish for the stock and pistol grip, then your finish of choice).

Complete instructions and more info than you ever wanted to know are at the Saiga 12 forum.

Dirk00001 · February 25, 2010, 03:36 PM

The other option - which was the route I took - involves an external pistol grip/stock conversion kit, like this:

http://store.carolinashooterssupply....KELETON/Detail

I'm tall and lanky (my wife says I've got monkey arms), so the added "length" of the shotgun isn't a big deal...although at least one friend who's got short(er) arms has told me that it was "uncomfortable" for him to hold on to the vertical foregrip I've also got installed (although he could hold onto the magazine just fine).

Going with something like that - which you can get with a folding mechanism as well (which is what I did) - is a way to get around changing the innards. Ultimately I'm not sure I'd do it again, as I've had problems with the factory trigger assembly and probably would have been better off going with a Tromix conversion, but whatever. Aside from the length issue, the other drawback to this method is all the extra parts you need to cram into it to make it 922r; for instance, if I use a Russian magazine, I'm out of compliance.

pharm675 · February 25, 2010, 10:54 PM

You can do it for $59 with Tapco intrafuse Saiga t6 stock set. It comes w/pistol grip/ collapsable m4 type stock/recoil pad The pistol grip appears to be a SAW grip I just ordered one I've only heard good things.

EdInk · February 26, 2010, 11:28 AM

Please post pics and areview of the tapco set up.

Technosavant · February 26, 2010, 04:08 PM

Here's a pic of my conversion. I spent the time and the money, and it looks good, works well, and the trigger is very sweet.

pharm675 · February 26, 2010, 11:09 PM

Technosavant,

You seem to be well edjucated on the saiga platform (I have not even shot mine yet) are you happy w/the purchase? The only auto-loader experience I have is a Mossberg 930 SPX (LPA fiber optic sights and rail same as Benelli M4, short barrel, and choate mag extension) can I expect the same reliability and patterns (saiga has a poly choke, Moss has cylinder bore). One question that nobody seems to have an answer to is if the trigger is a standard single hook AK trigger because if it is I have 3 adjustable units (one on my norinco and 2 spares cause it was soo good) you can adjust the trigger any way you like it from 1 lb to 3 1/2 lb. My Norinco actually has a better trigger pull/feel than my savage target w/accu trigger and my Remington w/Xmark pro. Any comments on most effective add ons would be much appreciated. And as for the original question I have a friend that accidently ordered the saiga intrafuse system for his AR and the seller is not eager to take it back. I might be able to get it for you next to nothing it is dark earth color.

Thanks,
-Pete

Technosavant · February 27, 2010, 11:00 AM

Pharm, there's one thing your questions seem not to take into account, so I'll deal with that first. That is section 922r compliance. An imported non-sporting shotgun can only have 10 or fewer imported parts to be legal. In the case of the S12, the number is four or five (depending on how you interpret "muzzle device," since the S12 has a thread protector) In the course of a conversion like mine you end up taking care of that without a problem since the fire control group (3), pistol grip (1) and stock (1) will put you into legality. It's more of a concern with the bolt on "conversions" like others are talking about. If I recall correctly, a protruding pistol grip and detachable box magazine are what launches the S12 into "non sporting" territory. If you just swap out a different traditional shotgun stock, you should be ok.

Now, for your questions:
1) Am I happy with it? Yes, but I did this more for fun than for anything else. My most common failure with the shotgun are shells jamming against the upper part of the chamber upon cycling. I haven't really spent the time to deal with this, but it just isn't going to be as reliable as a Rem 1100 or Mossberg 9xx. As far as patterns, I've shot skeet with it but I haven't patterned it. It works ok for skeet; consistent cheek weld is the hardest part.

2) After conversion it uses a standard single hook trigger group. That trigger group is modified slightly- there's a manual bolt hold open lever on the right side, so the axle portion of the hammer (and maybe trigger, I forget) needs to be ground down slightly. Tromix sells a G2 trigger group that has had that done already. A worthy purchase for someone doing a conversion, since it's 3 compliance parts.

3) Most effective add ons: I hear folks talking about the Gunfixer gas plug as being the best thing since sliced bread. I wouldn't know, haven't used one- it's on my "to do" list, but I have been sidetracked by AR15 projects lately.

Dirk00001 · February 28, 2010, 08:21 PM

I've got the gunfixer gas plug, and it's awesome; made a huge difference.

Which ties in with my "what do you think about it?" answer - namely, that I ended up getting a Vodka Special and, although I enjoy it when it actually fires, I spend almost as much time trying to fix the thing. Saiga 12's can be good, or bad, but one way or another if you're going to invest in one you better be prepared to spend the time and money tweaking it. And, unless you happen to get an extremely reliable build, you probably wouldn't want to put your life in its hands; you're still better off with a good ol' pump-action, or even a "simpler"/more common semi-auto shotgun design.

americanworkmule · March 7, 2010, 05:43 PM

Technosavant,

Can you help direct me where to find accessories to convert a Saiga to be like yours? I'm trying to find a folding stock (that is in stock) and a pistol grip.

Thanks

Technosavant · March 8, 2010, 10:36 AM

For the parts I did the vast majority of my buying from Carolina Shooters Supply and Mississippi Auto Arms.

If you're doing a folding setup, you may need to do what I did (although mine doesn't fold) if you don't want a Tapco: cut the rear tang, install a receiver block for stock mounting, then add the appropriate stock of your choice and a folding swivel.

The_Vigilante · March 8, 2010, 07:56 PM

If you do plan on buying a Saiga 12 Ga it would also be a good idea to join the Saiga 12 forum!!!

February 22, 2010, 12:05 AM	#1
EdInk Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2009 Posts: 3,968	Saiga Owners I was wondering if any of you Saiga 12 owners have installed the AK style pistol grip? How much did it cost? Do it yourself? Was it easy? __________________ Sic Semper Tyrannis

February 26, 2010, 11:28 AM	#5
EdInk Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2009 Posts: 3,968	Please post pics and areview of the tapco set up. __________________ Sic Semper Tyrannis

March 8, 2010, 07:56 PM	#12
The_Vigilante Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2008 Location: Far West Texas Posts: 200	Saiga Owners If you do plan on buying a Saiga 12 Ga it would also be a good idea to join the Saiga 12 forum!!! __________________ The_Vigilante Keeping the streets safe! A man can never own enough guns!

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February 22, 2010, 10:32 AM	#2
Technosavant Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2007 Location: St. Louis, MO area Posts: 4,040	There's two ways to do it. The quick, easy, cheap, and ugly method: just toss on a stock with a built in grip in place of the existing stock. Double check 922r issues before doing this, but this can be done in minutes for probably about $40. The somewhat more difficult but more correct method: relocate the trigger forward into the standard position. This tends to take care of 922r all by itself because you're buying a new fire control group (3 parts), pistol grip (1 part) and stock (1 part). I did the latter method using the Tromix modified G2 trigger group and DIY trigger guard. It took all of about 2 hours to do the actual work, but when you remove the plate that covers the real trigger hole you will expose bare metal, so you'll need to refinish the receiver (I just used Duracoat on the receiver, barrel, gas tube, and receiver cover). Total cost on my conversion was probably about $300-400, but I went to the Tromix stock with the Limbsaver pad, and those can be spendy. If you go with a cheaper standard stock you can get it all done for about $200 ($50 for the trigger group, about that for the trigger guard, prob. $60ish for the stock and pistol grip, then your finish of choice). Complete instructions and more info than you ever wanted to know are at the Saiga 12 forum.

February 25, 2010, 03:36 PM	#3
Dirk00001 Member Join Date: June 23, 2008 Location: Mill Creek, WA Posts: 27	The other option - which was the route I took - involves an external pistol grip/stock conversion kit, like this: http://store.carolinashooterssupply....KELETON/Detail I'm tall and lanky (my wife says I've got monkey arms), so the added "length" of the shotgun isn't a big deal...although at least one friend who's got short(er) arms has told me that it was "uncomfortable" for him to hold on to the vertical foregrip I've also got installed (although he could hold onto the magazine just fine). Going with something like that - which you can get with a folding mechanism as well (which is what I did) - is a way to get around changing the innards. Ultimately I'm not sure I'd do it again, as I've had problems with the factory trigger assembly and probably would have been better off going with a Tromix conversion, but whatever. Aside from the length issue, the other drawback to this method is all the extra parts you need to cram into it to make it 922r; for instance, if I use a Russian magazine, I'm out of compliance.

February 25, 2010, 10:54 PM	#4
pharm675 Member Join Date: May 22, 2008 Location: Long island Posts: 37	You can do it for $59 with Tapco intrafuse Saiga t6 stock set. It comes w/pistol grip/ collapsable m4 type stock/recoil pad The pistol grip appears to be a SAW grip I just ordered one I've only heard good things.

February 26, 2010, 04:08 PM	#6
Technosavant Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2007 Location: St. Louis, MO area Posts: 4,040	Here's a pic of my conversion. I spent the time and the money, and it looks good, works well, and the trigger is very sweet.

February 26, 2010, 11:09 PM	#7
pharm675 Member Join Date: May 22, 2008 Location: Long island Posts: 37	Technosavant, You seem to be well edjucated on the saiga platform (I have not even shot mine yet) are you happy w/the purchase? The only auto-loader experience I have is a Mossberg 930 SPX (LPA fiber optic sights and rail same as Benelli M4, short barrel, and choate mag extension) can I expect the same reliability and patterns (saiga has a poly choke, Moss has cylinder bore). One question that nobody seems to have an answer to is if the trigger is a standard single hook AK trigger because if it is I have 3 adjustable units (one on my norinco and 2 spares cause it was soo good) you can adjust the trigger any way you like it from 1 lb to 3 1/2 lb. My Norinco actually has a better trigger pull/feel than my savage target w/accu trigger and my Remington w/Xmark pro. Any comments on most effective add ons would be much appreciated. And as for the original question I have a friend that accidently ordered the saiga intrafuse system for his AR and the seller is not eager to take it back. I might be able to get it for you next to nothing it is dark earth color. Thanks, -Pete

February 27, 2010, 11:00 AM	#8
Technosavant Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2007 Location: St. Louis, MO area Posts: 4,040	Pharm, there's one thing your questions seem not to take into account, so I'll deal with that first. That is section 922r compliance. An imported non-sporting shotgun can only have 10 or fewer imported parts to be legal. In the case of the S12, the number is four or five (depending on how you interpret "muzzle device," since the S12 has a thread protector) In the course of a conversion like mine you end up taking care of that without a problem since the fire control group (3), pistol grip (1) and stock (1) will put you into legality. It's more of a concern with the bolt on "conversions" like others are talking about. If I recall correctly, a protruding pistol grip and detachable box magazine are what launches the S12 into "non sporting" territory. If you just swap out a different traditional shotgun stock, you should be ok. Now, for your questions: 1) Am I happy with it? Yes, but I did this more for fun than for anything else. My most common failure with the shotgun are shells jamming against the upper part of the chamber upon cycling. I haven't really spent the time to deal with this, but it just isn't going to be as reliable as a Rem 1100 or Mossberg 9xx. As far as patterns, I've shot skeet with it but I haven't patterned it. It works ok for skeet; consistent cheek weld is the hardest part. 2) After conversion it uses a standard single hook trigger group. That trigger group is modified slightly- there's a manual bolt hold open lever on the right side, so the axle portion of the hammer (and maybe trigger, I forget) needs to be ground down slightly. Tromix sells a G2 trigger group that has had that done already. A worthy purchase for someone doing a conversion, since it's 3 compliance parts. 3) Most effective add ons: I hear folks talking about the Gunfixer gas plug as being the best thing since sliced bread. I wouldn't know, haven't used one- it's on my "to do" list, but I have been sidetracked by AR15 projects lately.

February 28, 2010, 08:21 PM	#9
Dirk00001 Member Join Date: June 23, 2008 Location: Mill Creek, WA Posts: 27	I've got the gunfixer gas plug, and it's awesome; made a huge difference. Which ties in with my "what do you think about it?" answer - namely, that I ended up getting a Vodka Special and, although I enjoy it when it actually fires, I spend almost as much time trying to fix the thing. Saiga 12's can be good, or bad, but one way or another if you're going to invest in one you better be prepared to spend the time and money tweaking it. And, unless you happen to get an extremely reliable build, you probably wouldn't want to put your life in its hands; you're still better off with a good ol' pump-action, or even a "simpler"/more common semi-auto shotgun design.

March 7, 2010, 05:43 PM	#10
americanworkmule Member Join Date: April 11, 2009 Posts: 38	Technosavant, Can you help direct me where to find accessories to convert a Saiga to be like yours? I'm trying to find a folding stock (that is in stock) and a pistol grip. Thanks

March 8, 2010, 10:36 AM	#11
Technosavant Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2007 Location: St. Louis, MO area Posts: 4,040	For the parts I did the vast majority of my buying from Carolina Shooters Supply and Mississippi Auto Arms. If you're doing a folding setup, you may need to do what I did (although mine doesn't fold) if you don't want a Tapco: cut the rear tang, install a receiver block for stock mounting, then add the appropriate stock of your choice and a folding swivel.