First 22 cal deer killed...just as good as the old 7mm Rem Mag - Page 3

mikejonestkd · January 2, 2007, 02:48 PM

castnblast,

Glad to hear that you did well with a .22-250 and that you have the skill to hunt ethically with it. My dad just had a rotator cuff rebuilt and he is no longer in the mood for hard kicking rifles either. He is currently using a .243 for deer and it is working well for him.

I personally would consider the .243 a minimum for deer but I am glad that you tagged out this year with your rifle of choice.

TJ Freak · January 2, 2007, 09:09 PM

I've killed 2 deer with a 22-250. I was ignorant of ethics at the time (1979). Both went down almost on the spot. If ya can't shoot straight, it doesn't really matter what size caliber ya use. Shot placement is the reason most hunters are successful. In my humble opion.

SavageSniper · January 3, 2007, 01:03 PM

Hi all. How about this for thought. We ponder weather a .22 cal is enough for deer(I do), and we all want our deer to drop where we shot them. What about the bow hunters? Never hear anything "unethical" about having to follow up a deer hit in the lungs from a arrow for 100 yards or so. I have never seen any comparisons on arrow vs bullet, but I can't figure that an arrow will have more knockdown power than a .223 or the like.

castnblast · January 3, 2007, 02:45 PM

The so called "knock down power" is a myth widely over-rated by numerous hunters. You have to get in to the physiological/biological issues that cause death in a creature...Namely, blood loss, or trauma to a vital area of the nervous system that causes imediate sessation of life. The shock trauma is often what causes a deer or other animal to drop in it's tracks. In most cases, it has to do with spinal or cerebral penetration of bullet or flack. Flack being bone or bullet fragments. Occasionally, a heart shot will generate the same reaction. It just depends on numerous variables. In bowhunting, unless a deer is hit in the spine or brain, the animal ALWAYS runs. Yes, ALWAYS... an arrow travels too slowly to create the so called knock down power. It kills by bleeding the creature out. Cut a 1.5" diameter hole through 2 lungs, and see how far you go. You're toast. With a bullet, there is a shock waive that travels around the super sonic object. This shock waive creates a tremendous amount of damage behind the bullet as it passes through organs...which are mostly water. (think of the after effect of a drop of water landing in a glass...) As the bullet hits bone, it fragments. These fragments get intrained in the shockwave as it travels through the body, along with bullet fragments. These fragments cause additional damage to the internal organs and create the devesitation you see when you dress your animal. If knock down power were all we were concerned with, All hunters would be shooting heavy, full metal jacket constructed bullets. The so called knock down is created by CONTROLLED FRAGMENTATION as the bullet passes through an object, or in this case organs. This is why no hunter in their right mind would shoot an FMJ unless taking strictly head shots. A 224 cal bullet traveling around 3700+fps at point of impact is creating a TREMENDOUS shockwave that creates a trendous amount if internal organ damage. This is the simple version. If you really want to get into all the physics, I'm sure there is an engineer out there that can expand on my "symplified" explanation.

mikejonestkd · January 3, 2007, 03:03 PM

I believe you are going down the Roy Weatherby ' Hydrostatic Shock ' road....

It works well for the weatherby mags...

And I agree with it for the most part...

Wibb · January 4, 2007, 02:05 AM

Congrats on the kill and the marksmanship. I personally see nothing wrong with taking an animal with a small round if you are confident of your round and ability. I have to ask though why you chose the 55gr bullet instead of a larger 70+ grainer? Personal preference or a previous experience? Both of my shoulders are shot after 4 surgeries and no success and I have been contemplating a smaller caliber for larger game hunting as well.

Curt

castnblast · January 4, 2007, 11:35 AM

My preferance is the 70. My gun does not have enough twist to stabalize that bullet. I was not aware of that at the time of my purchase. There are also 80 grain bullets available. Because 22 caliber is small in diameter, a small change in weight means a significant lengthening of the bullet. My prior experience has been w/ Big bore mags, which had enough twist to stabalize a long variation in weight. Not so w/ the 22's. (all 22's I might add...) Most factory guns are designed to shoot 55 gr. & under for hyper velocity varmint rounds. They come w/ a 1 in 14" twist. To stabalize a 70, you need a 1 in 10, or even better, a 1 in 9 or 1 in 8. The problem w/ those is that is too much twist in most cases for the smaller bullets, and you tend to burn the barrel up quicker, at light weight, or the rpm's are up too high, and the bullet disentegrates due to excessive centrifugal force on the jacket. Because I don't shoot anything lighter than a 55 gr., I plan on odering a custom barrel w/ a 1 in 10 that should stabalize a 70, and shoot a 60 gr. beautifully. Noseler makes a 60 gr. partitian that I plan on using w/ it next year. Speer makes a 55 gr. trophy bonded bear claw that is designed for deer hunting in factory guns. It is very expensive, but I may go to it next season, as it would perform a bit better on hogs than what I'm currently using. (for now it's head shot only on them...) So if you are thinking 22 for deer, keep that in mind. Federal is loading factory ammo w/ the bear claws in them. You can get them at most gun stores, but you may need to order ahead of time. My suggestion is to reload. The 60 gr. will shoot a decent group w/ a 1 in 14, but I doubt it you will achieve a sub MOA group w/ it.

dgc940 · January 11, 2007, 02:59 AM

Mabey all yall need to put a sign in the woods telling the coyotes they need 12 inch claws and the bobcats they need to get 6 inch teeth! a deers not a sherman tank its flesh and bones. Everone on every forum has a magic bullet and calbier for taking deer. If shooters from many years gone buy would laugh laugh laugh at these people. I grew up in the stix back when all we had to do after school was chores and go hunting with our old .22 good thing we didnt get to read this back then!
We wouldnt have had anything to hunt with.

RedneckFur · January 15, 2007, 01:34 AM

I'm also from the school that shot placement is key, and caliber is more a question of choice.

When i was a boy, I watched my dad take whitetails with a Marlin 22mag on several ocassions, and often at distances of 50-100 yards. He never lost one.

The part of the country i live in seems to be infected with "magnum fever" and every deer hunter i see uses either a 7mm mag or a 300 weatherby. Both are tremendous overkill for anything smaller than an elk in my openion. Its always fun to see the guy's with black rings around one eye the week before open season

The way i look at it is... a deer's hide is no thicker than a humans skin. The military has been using 223 for years, and where the law will allow it, it makes a darn good deer round too, if ya know how to use it.

I hunt with a 30-30 and a ruger 10/44, and thats plenty of gun for me.

auburnboattail · January 15, 2007, 10:23 AM

You all are lucky and have the luxury of debating what rifle caliber is great or ethical. In my state we actually have to hunt.... Shotgun only. No 150 yard shots. We have to scout, no baiting allowed and bring Mr Whitetail in to 30 yards and use an unsophisitacted slug.

So count yourself lucky you have a choice on calibers

dgc940 · January 15, 2007, 11:50 PM

I really think the deal is that weekend warriors feel like a invincible killing machine when carrying a large mule kicking rifle.
No offence but my dad used to tell me about a city boy telling him Hey that's my dear you have! and he would tell them! Can I get my saddle off before you take him. LOL
I also here time and time again on the net and from hunters about hogs needing large guns to kill and I kill at least twelve a month with a 22-250 at up to 200 yds! DEAD
read my sig. also most people think if bigger is better than biggest is surly best.

SavageSniper · January 16, 2007, 07:31 PM

HeHeHe!! I love the weekend warriors. I like watching them in there charcoal lined camo suits, bathing with baking soda soap, and enough deer pee on that no deer that I would eat would even be caught coming close to a doe that smelled like that. Not to mention the field artillary piece that they hoist up into there lazyboy tree stands. The looks on their faces are pricless as they admire whats on my tailgate as I stand there in t-shirt and jeans. Priceless

January 2, 2007, 02:48 PM	#51
mikejonestkd Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Brockport, NY Posts: 3,716	castnblast, Glad to hear that you did well with a .22-250 and that you have the skill to hunt ethically with it. My dad just had a rotator cuff rebuilt and he is no longer in the mood for hard kicking rifles either. He is currently using a .243 for deer and it is working well for him. I personally would consider the .243 a minimum for deer but I am glad that you tagged out this year with your rifle of choice. __________________ You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.

January 2, 2007, 09:09 PM	#52
TJ Freak Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2005 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 143	.22 Cal I've killed 2 deer with a 22-250. I was ignorant of ethics at the time (1979). Both went down almost on the spot. If ya can't shoot straight, it doesn't really matter what size caliber ya use. Shot placement is the reason most hunters are successful. In my humble opion.

January 3, 2007, 01:03 PM	#53
SavageSniper Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2005 Location: Crawfordville, FL Posts: 494	Hi all. How about this for thought. We ponder weather a .22 cal is enough for deer(I do), and we all want our deer to drop where we shot them. What about the bow hunters? Never hear anything "unethical" about having to follow up a deer hit in the lungs from a arrow for 100 yards or so. I have never seen any comparisons on arrow vs bullet, but I can't figure that an arrow will have more knockdown power than a .223 or the like. __________________ This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights!

January 3, 2007, 02:45 PM	#54
castnblast Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2006 Location: Corpus Christi TX Posts: 1,148	The so called "knock down power" is a myth widely over-rated by numerous hunters. You have to get in to the physiological/biological issues that cause death in a creature...Namely, blood loss, or trauma to a vital area of the nervous system that causes imediate sessation of life. The shock trauma is often what causes a deer or other animal to drop in it's tracks. In most cases, it has to do with spinal or cerebral penetration of bullet or flack. Flack being bone or bullet fragments. Occasionally, a heart shot will generate the same reaction. It just depends on numerous variables. In bowhunting, unless a deer is hit in the spine or brain, the animal ALWAYS runs. Yes, ALWAYS... an arrow travels too slowly to create the so called knock down power. It kills by bleeding the creature out. Cut a 1.5" diameter hole through 2 lungs, and see how far you go. You're toast. With a bullet, there is a shock waive that travels around the super sonic object. This shock waive creates a tremendous amount of damage behind the bullet as it passes through organs...which are mostly water. (think of the after effect of a drop of water landing in a glass...) As the bullet hits bone, it fragments. These fragments get intrained in the shockwave as it travels through the body, along with bullet fragments. These fragments cause additional damage to the internal organs and create the devesitation you see when you dress your animal. If knock down power were all we were concerned with, All hunters would be shooting heavy, full metal jacket constructed bullets. The so called knock down is created by *CONTROLLED FRAGMENTATION* as the bullet passes through an object, or in this case organs. This is why no hunter in their right mind would shoot an FMJ unless taking strictly head shots. A 224 cal bullet traveling around 3700+fps at point of impact is creating a TREMENDOUS shockwave that creates a trendous amount if internal organ damage. This is the simple version. If you really want to get into all the physics, I'm sure there is an engineer out there that can expand on my "symplified" explanation. __________________ VEGETARIAN...old indian word for bad hunter

January 3, 2007, 03:03 PM	#55
mikejonestkd Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Brockport, NY Posts: 3,716	I believe you are going down the Roy Weatherby ' Hydrostatic Shock ' road.... It works well for the weatherby mags... And I agree with it for the most part... __________________ You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.

January 4, 2007, 02:05 AM	#56
Wibb Member Join Date: August 13, 2006 Location: Saint Louis, MO Posts: 44	Congrats on the kill and the marksmanship. I personally see nothing wrong with taking an animal with a small round if you are confident of your round and ability. I have to ask though why you chose the 55gr bullet instead of a larger 70+ grainer? Personal preference or a previous experience? Both of my shoulders are shot after 4 surgeries and no success and I have been contemplating a smaller caliber for larger game hunting as well. Curt

January 4, 2007, 11:35 AM	#57
castnblast Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2006 Location: Corpus Christi TX Posts: 1,148	My preferance is the 70. My gun does not have enough twist to stabalize that bullet. I was not aware of that at the time of my purchase. There are also 80 grain bullets available. Because 22 caliber is small in diameter, a small change in weight means a significant lengthening of the bullet. My prior experience has been w/ Big bore mags, which had enough twist to stabalize a long variation in weight. Not so w/ the 22's. (all 22's I might add...) Most factory guns are designed to shoot 55 gr. & under for hyper velocity varmint rounds. They come w/ a 1 in 14" twist. To stabalize a 70, you need a 1 in 10, or even better, a 1 in 9 or 1 in 8. The problem w/ those is that is too much twist in most cases for the smaller bullets, and you tend to burn the barrel up quicker, at light weight, or the rpm's are up too high, and the bullet disentegrates due to excessive centrifugal force on the jacket. Because I don't shoot anything lighter than a 55 gr., I plan on odering a custom barrel w/ a 1 in 10 that should stabalize a 70, and shoot a 60 gr. beautifully. Noseler makes a 60 gr. partitian that I plan on using w/ it next year. Speer makes a 55 gr. trophy bonded bear claw that is designed for deer hunting in factory guns. It is very expensive, but I may go to it next season, as it would perform a bit better on hogs than what I'm currently using. (for now it's head shot only on them...) So if you are thinking 22 for deer, keep that in mind. Federal is loading factory ammo w/ the bear claws in them. You can get them at most gun stores, but you may need to order ahead of time. My suggestion is to reload. The 60 gr. will shoot a decent group w/ a 1 in 14, but I doubt it you will achieve a sub MOA group w/ it. __________________ VEGETARIAN...old indian word for bad hunter

January 11, 2007, 02:59 AM	#58
dgc940 Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: Graham Texas Posts: 258	Mabey all yall need to put a sign in the woods telling the coyotes they need 12 inch claws and the bobcats they need to get 6 inch teeth! a deers not a sherman tank its flesh and bones. Everone on every forum has a magic bullet and calbier for taking deer. If shooters from many years gone buy would laugh laugh laugh at these people. I grew up in the stix back when all we had to do after school was chores and go hunting with our old .22 good thing we didnt get to read this back then! We wouldnt have had anything to hunt with. __________________ Some people say what they think! Some say what they know! Then there's those that think they know what they are saying! Last edited by dgc940; January 11, 2007 at 10:24 PM.

January 15, 2007, 01:34 AM	#59
RedneckFur Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2007 Location: Central NC Posts: 1,424	I'm also from the school that shot placement is key, and caliber is more a question of choice. When i was a boy, I watched my dad take whitetails with a Marlin 22mag on several ocassions, and often at distances of 50-100 yards. He never lost one. The part of the country i live in seems to be infected with "magnum fever" and every deer hunter i see uses either a 7mm mag or a 300 weatherby. Both are tremendous overkill for anything smaller than an elk in my openion. Its always fun to see the guy's with black rings around one eye the week before open season The way i look at it is... a deer's hide is no thicker than a humans skin. The military has been using 223 for years, and where the law will allow it, it makes a darn good deer round too, if ya know how to use it. I hunt with a 30-30 and a ruger 10/44, and thats plenty of gun for me.

January 15, 2007, 10:23 AM	#60
auburnboattail Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2006 Posts: 179	Wish i could use rifle You all are lucky and have the luxury of debating what rifle caliber is great or ethical. In my state we actually have to hunt.... Shotgun only. No 150 yard shots. We have to scout, no baiting allowed and bring Mr Whitetail in to 30 yards and use an unsophisitacted slug. So count yourself lucky you have a choice on calibers

January 15, 2007, 11:50 PM	#61
dgc940 Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: Graham Texas Posts: 258	I really think the deal is that weekend warriors feel like a invincible killing machine when carrying a large mule kicking rifle. No offence but my dad used to tell me about a city boy telling him Hey that's my dear you have! and he would tell them! Can I get my saddle off before you take him. LOL I also here time and time again on the net and from hunters about hogs needing large guns to kill and I kill at least twelve a month with a 22-250 at up to 200 yds! DEAD read my sig. also most people think if bigger is better than biggest is surly best. __________________ Some people say what they think! Some say what they know! Then there's those that think they know what they are saying!

January 16, 2007, 07:31 PM	#62
SavageSniper Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2005 Location: Crawfordville, FL Posts: 494	HeHeHe!! I love the weekend warriors. I like watching them in there charcoal lined camo suits, bathing with baking soda soap, and enough deer pee on that no deer that I would eat would even be caught coming close to a doe that smelled like that. Not to mention the field artillary piece that they hoist up into there lazyboy tree stands. The looks on their faces are pricless as they admire whats on my tailgate as I stand there in t-shirt and jeans. Priceless __________________ This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights!

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