How Well Does# 4 Shot Work For HD ?

mrt949 · January 19, 2013, 05:04 PM

Just purchased a 12 ga and the only ammo I could fine was # 4 shot . How effective is it?

Goatwhiskers · January 19, 2013, 05:14 PM

This gets argued about constantly by armchair experts, but I will say that at ordinary room distance the BG is gonna be hurting bad enough to change his mind. Past that distance bigger question mark. When you talk about distances in several yards you're outside your home and the potential legal picture changes. GW

HILLBILLY-06 · January 19, 2013, 05:23 PM

It will work at "VCR" very close range, but if you really want to use it for home defense, use buckshot. It's leathal range is greater by far, but if the bad guy wants to get up close and personal, "he won't make that mistake but one time" period.

hogdogs · January 19, 2013, 05:56 PM

Prefer that to 7 1/2.

Brent

PetahW · January 19, 2013, 06:39 PM

Figure out the max distance inside your home, that you'd be likely to fire, then take a shot with that birdshot (outside) at a 1"x12" board the same distance away - and you'll have your answer.

That's how I got mine - a field load of #6's punched a fist-sized hole through a barnboard 12 FEET away.

Just my $0.02, but no BG's going anywhere but O.U.T., with a hole like that in his middle..................................

.

Old Grump · January 19, 2013, 07:00 PM

Never mind all the Bird shot is for Birds quotes you will soon be hearing from the youngsters. Under 20' #4 shot will ruin anybody's day and nobody but nobody wants to get shot with a shotgun.

jmr40 · January 19, 2013, 07:35 PM

If it is all you have it will work most of the time. Buckshot is still the answer. There is absolutely no downside to using buckshot over birdshot, and while birdshot may get the job done, it should never be the 1st choice. If you have no other option the largest size shot available should be used.
As someone else said, it is better than 7 1/2.

Moby · January 19, 2013, 07:44 PM

Bird shot, Buck shot, or slugs from a 12 ga. shotgun are all pretty much effective. Considering you only get a 1 inch spread per yard, bird shot at 5 yards is still going to knock the crap out of the BG assuming a center mass shot. The problem is that center mass shot. in an excited state people are amazed at just how crappy they shoot.

In any shotgun with any round it's inportant to put a light on the shotgun. It will help ensure your aim is more accurate. Most times the weapon will be needed at night. But even during daylight hours a bright light helps your aim.

Remember, in an OH CRAP situation, you are not you. YOU ARE SCARED!!
YOUR HEART IS PUMPING SO HARD IT'S ABOUT TO BURST!
In a gun fight, if your not hitting you're not winning.

Here is some food for thought in the youtube below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrxkjRXk7m8

PetahW · January 20, 2013, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moby

In any shotgun with any round it's inportant to put a light on the shotgun.
It will help ensure your aim is more accurate.
Most times the weapon will be needed at night.

Besides the fact that a flashlight on the shotgun gives away your position ( a decided minus), it WILL let you know if your gun is aimed at a straying child (of yours) in that same darkness - a definite plus.

.

Nanuk · January 20, 2013, 02:02 PM

I cannot claim the title of "armchair expert" Just an old street cop. If I use a shotgun it has nothing but 00 buck or slugs.

Hawg · January 20, 2013, 04:43 PM

I knew a guy that got shot in the midsection from across a room with birdshot out of a single barrel 12. He took the gun away from the guy and beat him to death with it before he dialed 911. It seriously messed him up but didn't put him down.

Microgunner · January 20, 2013, 04:47 PM

IIRC, after exhaustive study, #4 shot is what the FBI settled on.

Of course, over penetration was a critical factor in their decision.

Edit: I just looked it up and # 4 birdshot is much smaller in diamter than the #4 buckshot that the FBI adopted. Sorry.

Buzzard Bait · January 20, 2013, 05:28 PM

If its #4 lead it will go all the way threw a duck at 40 yards if its steel and you shoot in indoors some of it may find things to bounce off of and sort of get returned to sender you might eat so of it your self
bb

Mrgunsngear · January 20, 2013, 05:36 PM

If you're worried about overpenetration but still want to ensure you hit the bad guys' vitals, I recommend #4 buck. I've posted my test of it here before but if you haven't seen it it's worth a look:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6cmGHz-4O4

Birdshot may work okay but I wouldn't count on it. Kind of like how a 380acp might work in a pinch (both are a heck of a lot better than nothing) but I have either #4 or #1 buck in my HD guns.

jmortimer · January 20, 2013, 06:03 PM

I think if you look around, #1 is optimum. #4 is minimum, and not ideal, and will go around 14" in ballistic gelatin. The following from "The Truth About Guns" web site has been posted quite a few times as this topic has been beat to death, but still worth revisiting from time to time
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...arious-rounds/

Jkady · January 20, 2013, 07:32 PM

#4 buck or #4 birdshot? Remember, Dick Cheney shot his friend in the FACE with bird shot and the guy survived just fine, several documented cases of the fact birdshot does not penetrate humans well and is not an effective tool for stopping an assailant. #4 buck on the other hand is a very effective defense round and I have a couple friends who have it loaded in their HD guns since they're concerned with over penetration with 00.

Tony615 · January 20, 2013, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrt949

Just purchased a 12 ga and the only ammo I could fine was # 4 shot . How effective is it?

Did you mean #4 birdshot or #4 buckshot?

Here is the AR-15 shotgun shell FAQ:

http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=176

armsmaster270 · January 21, 2013, 01:36 AM

If you have to go with Birdshot try to get "Heavi-Shot it is heavier than lead.

jason_iowa · January 21, 2013, 03:34 AM

#4 bird shot is for birds it is not effective for self defense.

#4 buckshot is acceptable some even say its the best. That could be argued.

teeroux · January 21, 2013, 04:49 AM

#4 Buck yes

#4 Bird no

hogdogs · January 21, 2013, 08:38 AM

I think the OP would prefer typical rounds for HD but isn't finding bigger stuff on these empty shelves...

I am stuck with slugs or 7 1/2 in my 20 gauges...

Brent

mrt949 · January 21, 2013, 12:41 PM

I am the OP and that's all I could find . Thank you HOGDOGS .

Virginian · January 21, 2013, 07:44 PM

If you are able to find ANY empirical data that says #4 will not suffice, then start worrying. I wouldn't hold my breath. There are reams of data on 38 Special, 9mm, and 357 shootings, but zip on shotguns, period. Everything you read is just opinions. Yeah it's based on gelatin penetration tests, yada, yada, but unless you get attacked by a gelatin block - you still don't KNOW. We once hit a hog on the way to a dove hunting trip. Farmer asked us to dispatch it and put it out of it's misery. After seeing what low brass #8s did to that hog at maybe 10 feet, I wouldn't hesitate to grab a #4.

Nasty · January 21, 2013, 09:20 PM

Here's one vote in favor of #4 birdshot *inside* a house. Penetration would be greatly reduced over any buckshot.

scattergun98908 · January 21, 2013, 11:16 PM

Try this ( I did), soak some old phonebooks and newpaper. Put them in a cardboard box and shoot at them with #4 birdshot at 15 feet and then at 10 feet. This should simulate actual home defense ranges. You will be suprised at how much penetration you will get. I now use both #4 birdshot and #3 buck in my 20 gauge for home defense in my Mossberg 500.

January 20, 2013, 02:02 PM	#10
Nanuk Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2005 Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam. Posts: 3,082	I cannot claim the title of "armchair expert" Just an old street cop. If I use a shotgun it has nothing but 00 buck or slugs. __________________ Retired Law Enforcement U. S. Army Veteran Armorer My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.

January 20, 2013, 04:47 PM	#12
Microgunner Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2006 Location: Central Florida Posts: 3,324	IIRC, after exhaustive study, #4 shot is what the FBI settled on. Of course, over penetration was a critical factor in their decision. Edit: I just looked it up and # 4 birdshot is much smaller in diamter than the #4 buckshot that the FBI adopted. Sorry. __________________ *Proud NRA Benefactor Member* Last edited by Microgunner; January 20, 2013 at 04:53 PM.

January 20, 2013, 05:28 PM	#13
Buzzard Bait Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Republic of Texas Posts: 502	steel or lead If its #4 lead it will go all the way threw a duck at 40 yards if its steel and you shoot in indoors some of it may find things to bounce off of and sort of get returned to sender you might eat so of it your self bb Last edited by Buzzard Bait; January 20, 2013 at 05:49 PM.

January 20, 2013, 05:36 PM	#14
Mrgunsngear Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2011 Location: Carolina Posts: 3,415	If you're worried about overpenetration but still want to ensure you hit the bad guys' vitals, I recommend #4 buck. I've posted my test of it here before but if you haven't seen it it's worth a look: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6cmGHz-4O4 Birdshot may work okay but I wouldn't count on it. Kind of like how a 380acp might work in a pinch (both are a heck of a lot better than nothing) but I have either #4 or #1 buck in my HD guns. __________________ Mrgunsngear Youtube Channel

January 21, 2013, 01:36 AM	#18
armsmaster270 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2008 Location: California Posts: 1,951	If you have to go with Birdshot try to get "Heavi-Shot it is heavier than lead. __________________ http://www.armsmaster.net-a.googlepages.com http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/f...aster270/Guns/ Retired LE, M.P., Sr. M.P. Investigator F.B.I. Trained Rangemaster/Firearms Instructor & Armorer, Presently Forensic Document Examiner for D.H.S.

January 19, 2013, 05:04 PM	#1
mrt949 Senior Member Join Date: November 16, 2008 Posts: 1,692	How Well Does# 4 Shot Work For HD ? Just purchased a 12 ga and the only ammo I could fine was # 4 shot . How effective is it? __________________ No Gun Big Or Small Does It All Last edited by mrt949; January 19, 2013 at 05:13 PM.

January 19, 2013, 05:14 PM	#2
Goatwhiskers Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2009 Location: Batchelor, La. Posts: 579	This gets argued about constantly by armchair experts, but I will say that at ordinary room distance the BG is gonna be hurting bad enough to change his mind. Past that distance bigger question mark. When you talk about distances in several yards you're outside your home and the potential legal picture changes. GW

January 19, 2013, 05:23 PM	#3
HILLBILLY-06 Member Join Date: July 30, 2012 Posts: 17	It will work at "VCR" very close range, but if you really want to use it for home defense, use buckshot. It's leathal range is greater by far, but if the bad guy wants to get up close and personal, "he won't make that mistake but one time" period.

January 19, 2013, 05:56 PM	#4
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Prefer that to 7 1/2. Brent

January 19, 2013, 06:39 PM	#5
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	Figure out the max distance inside your home, that you'd be likely to fire, then take a shot with that birdshot (outside) at a 1"x12" board the same distance away - and you'll have your answer. That's how I got mine - a field load of #6's punched a fist-sized hole through a barnboard 12 FEET away. Just my $0.02, but no BG's going anywhere but O.U.T., with a hole like that in his middle.................................. .

January 19, 2013, 07:00 PM	#6
Old Grump Member in memoriam Join Date: April 9, 2009 Location: Blue River Wisconsin, in Posts: 3,144	Never mind all the Bird shot is for Birds quotes you will soon be hearing from the youngsters. Under 20' #4 shot will ruin anybody's day and nobody but nobody wants to get shot with a shotgun. __________________ Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern will, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. --Daniel Webster--

January 19, 2013, 07:35 PM	#7
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,803	If it is all you have it will work most of the time. Buckshot is still the answer. There is absolutely no downside to using buckshot over birdshot, and while birdshot may get the job done, it should never be the 1st choice. If you have no other option the largest size shot available should be used. As someone else said, it is better than 7 1/2.

January 19, 2013, 07:44 PM	#8
Moby Member Join Date: November 11, 2012 Posts: 91	Bird shot, Buck shot, or slugs from a 12 ga. shotgun are all pretty much effective. Considering you only get a 1 inch spread per yard, bird shot at 5 yards is still going to knock the crap out of the BG assuming a center mass shot. The problem is that center mass shot. in an excited state people are amazed at just how crappy they shoot. In any shotgun with any round it's inportant to put a light on the shotgun. It will help ensure your aim is more accurate. Most times the weapon will be needed at night. But even during daylight hours a bright light helps your aim. Remember, in an OH CRAP situation, you are not you. YOU ARE SCARED!! YOUR HEART IS PUMPING SO HARD IT'S ABOUT TO BURST! In a gun fight, if your not hitting you're not winning. Here is some food for thought in the youtube below. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrxkjRXk7m8 __________________ “A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.” ~George Washington US Coast Guard 76-86 Semper Paratus

January 20, 2013, 04:43 PM	#11
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	I knew a guy that got shot in the midsection from across a room with birdshot out of a single barrel 12. He took the gun away from the guy and beat him to death with it before he dialed 911. It seriously messed him up but didn't put him down.

January 20, 2013, 06:03 PM	#15
jmortimer Junior member Join Date: January 24, 2010 Location: South West Riverside County California Posts: 2,763	I think if you look around, #1 is optimum. #4 is minimum, and not ideal, and will go around 14" in ballistic gelatin. The following from "The Truth About Guns" web site has been posted quite a few times as this topic has been beat to death, but still worth revisiting from time to time http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...arious-rounds/

January 20, 2013, 07:32 PM	#16
Jkady Member Join Date: December 23, 2012 Posts: 21	#4 buck or #4 birdshot? Remember, Dick Cheney shot his friend in the FACE with bird shot and the guy survived just fine, several documented cases of the fact birdshot does not penetrate humans well and is not an effective tool for stopping an assailant. #4 buck on the other hand is a very effective defense round and I have a couple friends who have it loaded in their HD guns since they're concerned with over penetration with 00.

January 21, 2013, 03:34 AM	#19
jason_iowa Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2011 Posts: 686	#4 bird shot is for birds it is not effective for self defense. #4 buckshot is acceptable some even say its the best. That could be argued.

January 21, 2013, 04:49 AM	#20
teeroux Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2006 Posts: 1,512	#4 Buck yes #4 Bird no

January 21, 2013, 08:38 AM	#21
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	I think the OP would prefer typical rounds for HD but isn't finding bigger stuff on these empty shelves... I am stuck with slugs or 7 1/2 in my 20 gauges... Brent

January 21, 2013, 12:41 PM	#22
mrt949 Senior Member Join Date: November 16, 2008 Posts: 1,692	I am the OP and that's all I could find . Thank you HOGDOGS . __________________ No Gun Big Or Small Does It All

January 21, 2013, 07:44 PM	#23
Virginian Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2012 Location: Williamsburg, Va. Posts: 1,528	If you are able to find ANY empirical data that says #4 will not suffice, then start worrying. I wouldn't hold my breath. There are reams of data on 38 Special, 9mm, and 357 shootings, but zip on shotguns, period. Everything you read is just opinions. Yeah it's based on gelatin penetration tests, yada, yada, but unless you get attacked by a gelatin block - you still don't KNOW. We once hit a hog on the way to a dove hunting trip. Farmer asked us to dispatch it and put it out of it's misery. After seeing what low brass #8s did to that hog at maybe 10 feet, I wouldn't hesitate to grab a #4.

January 21, 2013, 09:20 PM	#24
Nasty Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2008 Posts: 323	Here's one vote in favor of #4 birdshot inside a house. Penetration would be greatly reduced over any buckshot. __________________ Above is based on the opinion of a 20 year Small Arms Marksmanship and Training Unit USAF instructor with more than 30 years in competitive shooting sports. Your mileage may vary.

January 21, 2013, 11:16 PM	#25
scattergun98908 Member Join Date: January 21, 2013 Location: Eastern Washington state Posts: 20	Try this ( I did), soak some old phonebooks and newpaper. Put them in a cardboard box and shoot at them with #4 birdshot at 15 feet and then at 10 feet. This should simulate actual home defense ranges. You will be suprised at how much penetration you will get. I now use both #4 birdshot and #3 buck in my 20 gauge for home defense in my Mossberg 500.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search