First shotgun purchase opinions

[JDC24]

Alright so I've come to the decision that it is about time that I purchased my first shotgun, one which I plan to primarily use in a home defense role, as well as for some recreational shooting and practice. After a couple months of research I've narrowed it down to two Mossberg 500 Tactical models:

The Model 50420
http://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/defa ... item=50420

and the Model 50145
http://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/defa ... item=50145

The way I see it, both models have their pros and cons. I like the Model 50420's pistrol grip, and 12ga shells are cheaper, easier to come by, and come in a larger variety than their 20ga shell counterparts. However, I'm a bit worried about the quality of the 50420's tactical stock, and I feel that I might be slightly more comfortable firing the 20ga 50145 due to its lesser recoil.

So, what are your thoughts on the matter? Like I said, this will be my first shotgun so I don't have a lot of practical knowledge to base my opinions on, and I want to be really sure that I get the right gun since, at the time being, I'm still a college student so my budget it relatively limited.

[hogdogs]

Well I like your choice of maker! Mossberg is the only modern shotgun I need...
But if I were you, I would drop the tactical thought, save a few bucks, own much more gun for the money and sell the pistol grip for $15-20 bucks to someone and spend that money on 3-5 boxes of ammo...

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...ducts_id/46907

Much more versatile with the 2 barrels... less money for better lookin' too.

No hole saw on the muzzle but you don't want to spin the gun by hand to cut plywood anyway...


These companies (including mossberg) are willing to sell to what ever market is out there. This gun requires more man hours to create yet costs less than the ones you posted about.
Brent

[C0untZer0]

Why have you discounted the 930?

Everyone who has one says they're rock solid. If you look on YouTube there are a lot of viseos on it - including rapid fire. The 930 seems to be able to put a lot a lead down range very quickly without jamming or malfuctioning in any way...



P.S. the links / pictures in your post are 404-ing

[JDC24]

I must admit, the desire to own a tactical shotgun is a caveat of mine. I try to be as practical as possible when it comes to selecting a firearm, but looking cool is something I'm willing to spend a few extra bucks on . What can I say, I'm just a slave to my youthful, testosterone fueled ideas of machismo as exemplified by a nice tactical weapon, regardless of its potential lack of practicality .

Regarding the 930, I've only discounted it since I've just happened to do more research into the 500 series and I really like what I read about them. I don't doubt that the 930 is also a great gun though.

[hogdogs]

Well, personally, I think the blue and wood in 18 inch is one cool lookin' gun.
Keep in mind that those "tacticool" guns are usually "matte blue finish" which means they fail to polish a rough barrel and then blue it. to me that is just TACKY in the gun world. Parkerized is a different story as it is rust resistant and really serves a purpose.

And those silly muzzle brakes and "breaching" gizmos are utterly useless and if it isn't serving a purpose it is a poser thing. Nothing "poser" is cool to me. It is just as silly, to me, as putting cadillac badges on a vega or lincoln badges on a ford pinto.

The breacher end is for "dynamic entry" done by professionals serving a warrant or soldiers goin' in after enemy combatants.
You must buy what suits you but you did ask...
Brent

[JDC24]

I agree Brent, the door breach choke is very useless and I'm not really a huge fan of it. However, I like everything else about that particular gun so I'm rather willing to look past it. I figure even if it does look kind of silly I can at least stab someone in the throat with it if I ever run out of ammunition, and find myself engaged in hand to hand combat .

[C0untZer0]

There are 930 SPX models without that stuff on them...

[Evan Thomas]

Listen to Brent, he knows whereof he speaks...

And here's a thing he hasn't mentioned, for some reason: the pistol grip on the "tacticool" 50420 stock is impractical on a Mossberg: with your hand on the pistol grip you can't reach the safety. So it's sacrificing utility for the cool factor, which is something only a numb-brain would want to do -- or someone who wasn't buying the gun to use, but just to look at, or something.

And, yeah, that "breaching" thingy on the 50145 is just a useless piece of decorative gup.

The combo package with the two barrels is an astonishingly good deal compared to those tacti-whatever models. Get that, spend the money you'll save on ammunition, and learn to run it. Once you can shoot the gun well, you can decide what, if any, "accessories" might actually be useful.

[C0untZer0]

I did handle a pair of 930 SPX this weekend - with pistol grip and without, and the pistol grip messed up the feel, the grip - the reach to the trigger, it just didn't feel right compared to the regular stock.

I know the pistol grip is in vougue but it really threw me and I didn't like it personally.

[hogdogs]

The pistol grip reduces the number of different positions you can use the weapon with any level of accuracy.

The stock that isn't shaped like a regular stock is also too low to develop consistent "cheek weld" for repeatable performance.

Cheek slap is a painful thing and more than a few times it has been complained about in threads and it is almost always these stocks in question.

You can do so much more with a traditional shape stock.

To quantify my statements... I have tried the PGO, Ar style and both were a waste. I still have my PGO that came on my M-500 sitting in my gun cleaning tool box.

Brent

[pabuckslayer08]

I know you want a tactical gun and you can still get one, just go without the pistol grip, they really hold you back, they almost eliminate rec. shooting and for sure any hunting if you ever do so and they really arnt good in a fast need situation. Go with a nice wood stock instead, same gun only a little nicer to look at and much more useful.

[JDC24]

As long as I am asking questions, and since I really don't want to start an entirely new thread, can anyone give me a comparison between the recoil produced by a reduced recoil 12 gauge 00 buck shell, and the average 20ga #3 buckshot shell? One of the reasons why I've been looking at 20 gauge shotguns is that I don't have a whole lot of experience firing shotguns, and I don't want any flinching to hamper my shooting abilities.

Also do the reduced recoil 12 gauge shells have similar/superior performance to the 20 gauge #3 shells?


Read more: http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/view...#ixzz1PITaLN6j

[hogdogs]

No I cannot as I never tried the reduced recoil loads. But if the 20 gauge is proportionately lighter than the 12 gauge gun than the recoil from a regular full load of either will be quite simliar.

With the mossberg line, (the only brand I am real familiar with) the 12 is a heavier gun than the 20 so they basically have very similar felt recoil given equal type loads are used.

Personally, had I known this 20+ years ago, I would not have bought this 20 gauge. Wifey saw my body lurch and decided not to even try shooting it.

I would suggest a person have a different reason to choose a 20 over a 12 before opting for the 20 gauge.

I will say that a 20 gauge single shot NEF has more or the same felt recoil with a promo load as a 12 gauge remington 870 loaded with 2 3/4 regular buckshot or slug.

You will have so much more variety of ammo choice with a 12 gauge. And I suspect a reduced recoil load would feel the same or less out of a similar gun in 20 loaded with regular buckshot load.

Brent

[Dave McC]

My take on stocks with a separate PG.....

First, I've fired a few including those accursed early Rem folders that cut cheeks. Never found them as comfortable as standard stocks nor as quick.

Back around 1800, the Brits pretty much defined what a shotgun stock should be. Folks like Joe Manton put in a lot of tiime and R&D developing something that enabled shotguns to be used in comfort and with accuracy in very short time frames.

That's how shotguns are still used. Suddenly.

There's been a few tweaks, but 200 years of use has given us what's close to optimum, and it doesn't have a separate piece sticking out.

[Gehrhard]

Hogdog has inadvertently stumbled onto the perfect combo set in his first post.

Remember, it'll hold five + 1 rounds of 2-3/4" as well as 3" American rounds!

[hogdogs]

Gehr, Nuttin inadvertent about it... that was my dream set back 20+ years ago. Back then it didn't come with the acc-chokes and it had a neato catch phrase name of "Hunters Combo" if memory serves me right.

Brent

[Lee Lapin]

Screw how cool it looks - how well it WORKS is the primary consideration in any firearm that might be used in defense of life and limb. And the old KISS approach works best where fighting shotguns are concerned.

It's a bad idea to complicate if not outright compromise something so fundamental in a defensive shotgun as easy manipulation of the safety without breaking the firing grip to get the safety off. Putting a pistol grip on a Model 500 or any top tang safety shotgun does precisely that. If you just gotta have that style stock, just put it on a Maverick 88 so you can get the safety off with no trouble. Otherwise get a 500 with a conventional style stock for all the reasons Dave mentioned above...

As to recoil, over the years in working with different shooters it seems to me there's a good bit of the subjective in how different people feel recoil. In general, 20 ga. guns are lighter in overall weight than 12 ga. guns are, and the weight of the gun has an objective effect on felt recoil. Heavy loads out of a 20 ga. are likely going to kick worse than equivalent loads in a 12 ga. because the gun itself is lighter. And a lighter kicking load will deliver less felt recoil to most shooters out of a 12 ga. than an equivalent (same weight of shot, same velocity) load out of a 20 ga. gun since the gun is heavier. Though there are significant generalities involved, I'd say a reduced recoil load out of a 12 ga. is likely to deliver less felt recoil than an equivalent load fired out of a 20 ga. Hope this helps,

lpl

[C0untZer0]

The safety could be better on the 930.

I expected it to sort of click into place but it doesn't do that. It's not smooth, it doesn't move in a fluid motion, it's kind of gritty. You know it's on or off only because it doesn't move anymore - it's all the way up or all the way down.

This might be made better by some of the after-market buttons for it.

[hogdogs]

Count, the mossberg safety works like butter with some TLC. I did mine up and it is a crisp smooth bugger now. I assume it is identical if not exactly the same as my 500 and I already intended to spiff mine up on initial tear down and cleaning before firing.

Brent

[TheKlawMan]

If you want a tacticool shotgun, consider the Remington 870 tactical with the breacher. It is similar to the Mossberg 500, with a big difference. The breacher of the Mossberg is, IIRC, welded to the barrel. On the 870, it is a screw on choke. That means you can remove it and use any choke made for a Remington 870. I haae heard that law enforcement is going more and more to modified chokes to increase the range of shotguns and limit collateral damage. Otherwise, without paying for gunsmithing, you usually are stuck with a cyllinder bore short barrel.

[TheKlawMan]

I understand that the problem with some Mossberg safeties is they are plastic and can crack on the inside where the fissure isn't even visible. Get a metal safety button.

[C0untZer0]

I have seen the aftermarket safeties for the 930 and they are larger and sturdier looking.

It's not a big deal it's not an expensive upgrade, I wouldn't let it deter me from buying the 930 SPX.

As far the breacher option for the HD SG- I think it's a great idea.

You never know when you might need it - you might be in a real hurry to get out of your house, like maybe you're on your way to a friend's football party and you're running late and might miss the kickoff...

Instead of stopping and unlocking your front door - you just put the breacher up againts the lock and BLAM... you're on your way and you've shaved at least 2 seconds off your travel time.

It's also useful if you are stuck with a family member who likes to hog the bathroom...

[Gehrhard]

Hog;
I may be wrong but am certain the Hunter's Combo, my own first, was a 28" Mod and a 24" rifle-sight (smooth) slug barrel. The Security combo replaced the latter with the 18-1/2" "riot" tube. Bought the first of those off a rack to celebrate the Rodney King verdict when I couldn't find the 24".

As for the safety? Feels good!? The ONLY thing I URGE 500 buyers to do is replace that poly-resin safety switch with a metal one, properly. Doesn't even need to be a higher one. The plastic safety is the singular weak link in the entire gun as far as I am concerned. Um, savvy!?!?

JD;
The 930 SPX is not a 930! It is a dopey super-high-ghost-ring-sighted, too-low-stocked, gun that also has a developing reputation for being finicky and failures of various types, especially if it isn't COMPLETELY cleaned early and very often. I would certainly get a "tactical" one over the SPX (which I wanted, TRIED, to buy but just couldn't despite my regard for Mossbergs), and wasn't gonna mention the failures, but, well, it was time.

Get a pump -- you won't really need the pistol-grip-only I hope. It makes for poor gunnery.

[hogdogs]

the Hunter's Combo, my own first, was a 28" Mod and a 24" rifle-sight (smooth) slug barrel. The Security combo replaced the latter with the 18-1/2" "riot" tube.

This could be very true... Back then "tactical assault" farkle laden guns were not in vogue... The marketing strategy used by Mossberg was with the catchy names...

In fact, I think my PGO 18 inch 20 was called a "camper combo" but nothing was "combo" only one barrel and only one PGO... no regular stock yet they opted to call it a "combo"...

Brent

[darkgael]

If you want to compare recoil, forget the gauge. Look at velocity and weight of the shot charge. A low recoil 12 ga. shell may have 7/8oz of shot, like a 20 ga. A heavy 20 ga. Load might be one ounce of shot like some 12 gauge loads. If both gauge shells have the same velocity and are fired from the same weight gun, then recoil will be the same.

Pistol grips are a waste of time and money. Unless you are going into combat, so are the other things. You don't need a breacher to blow a lock on the front door.