Home Defense, what do you think? (deceiving title)

[mathman]

Kommifornia might just be a great state. I don't care. This one issue is enough to make me dislike a state enough to never want to be seen in it. It's more a matter of principal, and that Kommifornia want's to enact laws that conflict against, I believe, the US Constitution was designed to protect against. I live in FL, which has many of the same great beaches, maybe more, and has sensable gun laws, and a great CCW law. Long live the free world, and I emplore anyone who values their continued exercize of their Constitutional Rights (notice it didn't say privliages decided upon by PETA, Right Wing Movie Actors, and the like, to move out of that state, and place their votes where they will actually count. When your governer is Arnold, who can't even really speak English, how do you expect your Rights will not be treated as Privliages.

I'm tired of this Bull[color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color]. California isn't FULL of a bunch of liberal, anit-gun idiots...there are MILLIONS of Californians that are pro-gun, anti-abortion, anti-gay-marriage, etc...I'm really sick of some of these idiots on these threads that put down California because of the gun policies passed by some of our State politicians. Y'all (pun intended) need to realize that California contributes a lot to this country (financially, agriculture, etc...). Just because California is not full of a bunch of redneck [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color]s doesn't make it Anti-American.

On the topic of the thread, I agree with relientk1988...I don't carry a gun, not because I can't, but because I don't look at life as a constant threat lurking around the corner...I mean, hell, death is always near...when do you decide to live instead of trying not to die? It's going to happen some day you know.

I apologize for going on rant, but it really bothers me when I see stuff like what I quoted...especially from someone who is going to be a LEO.

[Brit]

Reildeal,
You must be a non white person, yes? My Wife of 12 years was born in Guiana, she says the West Indies! but what can't speak can't lie, the atlas shows it is in South America, this same life partner looks somewhat Indian, and has a neutral kind of accent, mine is Liverpool.

Me, I am white as driven snow (except for the bits that show as I walk around in my new resident state (15 months) of Florida.

As retired Brit/Canadian Citizens I had no worries moving to the Sunshine State, my lovely Wife was a bit concerned, at this time we have not had a look, comment or gesture that either one of us could conclude was not of a friendly, kindly nature.

Love our new home, street and neighbors; love my CCW and Glock 19 with 16 rounds of 127g HPs, and a spare Glock 17 mag, with 17 rounds of the same loads on the other side of the belt. I carry an Insurance slip for the Jeep as well.
Traveled to your State, liked it, would sooner live in Florida, and do, can not see why all the fired up retric is is aimed at Ca. Mind you, any group that thinks more rounds than 10 in a Pistol magazine is a bad thing have to have some flaws..... LOL.

But here in Florida we lock doors, keep a loaded firearm handy, and they reside in a big heavey safe when we are out. Murphy is alive and well.

[Jungle Work]

Brit's quote:
Love our new home, street and neighbors; love my CCW and Glock 19 with 16 rounds of 127g HPs, and a spare Glock 17 mag, with 17 rounds of the same loads on the other side of the belt. I carry an Insurance slip for the Jeep as well.

Sounds like you'd do real well in Texas also. If you ever get tired of Florida, come to Texas, where many of us also carry M19s and an extra M-17 mag.

Reidea & Mathl,
The last time I was in Kalifornica the State was sending a man to jail/prison because he defended himself against two Parolees who attempted to rob him on the side of the road after he had a flat tire. He shot both of the armed robbers who were also arrested. He stood trial for "unlicensed carrying of a Pistol" and was sentenced to one year in jail/prison. The two parolees jumped bond and were no where to be found. The prosecutor was more upset because the citizen with no criminal record was carrying an unlicensed handgun and shooting the poor misunderstood perpes, than he was about the robbery attempt. It was in the San Diego area in 1994. Typical Kalifornica. One of my best friends is from Andrews up near the State Capital of Insanity. He is an instructor at FLETC now, couldn't wait to get his family out. Both of my cousins (twins) moved to Arkansas when they retired from LAPD. As did another friend who retired from Riverside SO. Why Arkansas I don't know, but they all pray the Kalifornica slides into the Pacific before it infects the rest of the country. Your right about there being some nice people in Kalifornica and my relatives and friends say one thing, "they are all too stupid to move" out of that lovely looking cess pool. There may be lot of good consertive folks in Kalifornica, but it's obvious that they are not running the place. They have an RINO as head of the Asylum and Hollywierd is running the legislature.

Jungle Work

[relientk1988]

Thanks for all the horror stories of how you all been broken into. Now I ask, how far is too far, .50 cal. on the roof, claymores in the front yard? I'm suprised no one has agreed with me. Where are all the .22 shooters? In response to the fire extinguisher(?) comment, I have a fire extinguisher, do I carry it around everywhere I go? Looking for potential fires? Scanning the house all the time? Until you lock yourself in your house afraid to come out or the fire will get you?



Ben

[mathman]

On the topic of the thread, I agree with relientk1988...I don't carry a gun, not because I can't, but because I don't look at life as a constant threat lurking around the corner...I mean, hell, death is always near...when do you decide to live instead of trying not to die? It's going to happen some day you know.

If that's not backing you up, then I don't know what is...

[relientk1988]

I've read about property alot in this thread. "assault upon your ... property." In my great state of Ohio you cannot shoot someone just to protect property. To use deadly force you must be afraid of serious bodily injury or death and you must retreat until you cannot go any farther. Now I don't know about you guys but I rather just be sound asleep while a robber takes my stuff then wake up and end up going to jail. But if someone wants to do me or my family harm I have the shotgun. But before I can use the shotgun I have to turn my back on the BG and run to the farthest room, Ohio enacted this law so more law-abiding people would be shot in the back, than criminals in the front.


well thats it for now,
Ben

[relientk1988]

sorry Mathman didn't see that

[U.F.O.]

"Now I ask, how far is too far"

It depends. You and others may think merely carrying concealed is too far. That's your perogative.....don't carry. I'm not surprised no one here has agreed with you. This is a website for gun enthusiasts, many, if not most, (IMO) of whom DO carry. If you're looking for personal validation that CCW is over the top.....you're not likely to find it here.

U.F.O.

[Unique 5.7]

I wonder if some of you who call California "Kommifornia" or some such realize that it is one of the most dynamic economies in the world? Really sure you want to say it is Communist?

[RWK]

"Now I ask, how far is too far."

You are right: (1) this is an INDIVIDUAL decision and (2) it is certainly subject to intelligent trade-offs (i. e., no Claymores, but frequent CCW for me).

With this said, I have seen -- and certainly am daily exposed to via the media -- the terrible things that happen to “average” citizens in fine neighborhood. For example, every evening, it seems, the local DC area news highlights multiple murders, rapes, home invasions, carjackings, and so forth. Recognizing that on any given day these horrific crimes are unlikely to happen to me, I nevertheless believe in reasonable (again, a personal evaluation) preparation. You opt to take a walk around your nice, suburban neighborhood unarmed; that’s fine. I decide to unobtrusively carry a Glock 36 in my pocket; that’s also fine. I simply hope you will never have reason to regret your lack of preparation and I would highlight the fact that my decision hurts no one and, in fact, is unknown to everyone.

[relientk1988]

Hey U.F.O. read my first post on this thread.


"I think CCW is a great idea"

you said,


"You and others may think merely carrying concealed is too far."

I do agree with CCW and I do think it's a good thing I plan to apply when I can. The reason I started this thread was I started thinking after reading all these posts about people being scared of everything(i.e. carwashes) I do beleive you should be cautious but when it starts consuming you(i.e. paranoia) then that is too far. I'm sorry if I have offended anybody.

Just something to think about,
Ben

[U.F.O.]

Sorry relientk1988. I missed that sentence sandwiched amongst the generally negative tone. A little paranoia can be a good thing. Too much, a sign of problems. I haven't detected rampant problems with that issue in the 5 months I've been here. You're new to the board. My only suggestion would be don't judge quickly and harshly. The vast majority of what you'll get here is sincere and worthwhile feedback. Take what you need and leave the rest. I do and it works.

U.F.O.

[relientk1988]

U.F.O,

I wasn't trying to be negative just seeing if anyone else thinks that people take it too far. I'm not saying that anyone takes CCW/HD too far but people have. I didn't mean to insult anyone. I do appreciate your views and am very open to everyone. U.F.O. I guess a little paranoia can be a good thing but not if it takes over your entire life. That was all I have been trying to say since the beginning and I'm glad you agree , The main reason I like guns is to go out in the backyard and shoot the crap out of some cans. Also the neighborhood I live in is relatively safe(most everyone 60+) so I don't think I'll be needing CCW for a while but if I move may change my mind.


Ben

[tom650604]

Crime can happen anywhere in the world. I bought mine just to have fun as a hobby. Yes, there is the thought of what if. However, I don't let it stress me until it happens. Plinking away at the range and have some fun is all I do.

[FrankDrebin]

How come so many people from CA are moving to AZ????? They ran all the prices up there and instead of moving to NYC where they belong, they have to go to AZ and artificially inflate the price of everything there!!!! "Dynamic Economy" indeed!!

[reildeal]

And now you are basically comparing people in California to Locusts. That's really intelligent. What about the constant influx of people that come to California from other states. You act as if California is an endless battery of persons that are intent on ruining the economy of YOUR states. How mindless are you. Truely spoken from ignorance. Do you realize that the cost of living is driven to strenuous extents by those that come to this state and not leave? C'mon! Think a little people. And with regards to immigration issues, look at states like Florida. And has anyone ever lived in Atlanta, New York, El Paso, and an endless number of other cities? Don't act like California is the only place that this happens. How hateful of people are you?

[FrankDrebin]

And now you are basically comparing people in California to Locusts. That's really intelligent.

I am not! (Locusts aren't as insidious)

[reildeal]

I recommend that you go back to grade 3 and try to repair what little education you seem to convey with your statements. I am very passionate about right of free speech, but you are doing yourself very little service FrankDrebin. Reminds me of some of the Rednecks that I used to go to school with that were proud of the idiocy that they would spout from their mouths. You are a fine example of someone that should own a tool of lethal force. Really, I mean that ) Oh and Frank, "Git 'r' Dun!"

[Scott Evans]

Where do you all live?

Here in home-town Jacksonville, NC an “All American City” award winner :

A former employee of mine was driving home a few years ago late one night on US Hwy 17 from Topsail Island back to his home in Jacksonville. However, his car broke down on a lonely stretch of that highway and he elected to walk the 3 miles to the nearest gas station. A pickup truck pulled over as he was walking. He assumed they were there to help; however, they beat him with a baseball bat instead.
He was not armed and there was no place to run. He is OK … now.

I became rather good casual friends with a fellow who worked in one of our local gun shops. About 5 years ago his son, who was a CCW permit holder, was taking care of some shopping at the Jacksonville Mall. A Mall that has private security and parking lot surveillance as well as off duty Police officers on site. The son left his firearm in the vehicle as the Mall was posted a “No-Firearms allowed” zone by the management. On his way out of the mall in the parking lot near his vehicle he was jumped and beat with a 2x4, then robed. …. He died a few days later.


About six years ago a lady who we know from Church was robed at gun point at an ATM here in town. She was unharmed … but she was also helpless to defend herself if the robber had other intentions.

About 9 years ago …. I was walking in my development … then still under construction with some dark stretches. I was confronted by one man while others attempted to circle around behind me. I drew my weapon and chambered a round (at that time I carried in condition 3). They fled and I have not seen them since.

This area is rural, small and friendly…not an inner city “HOOD” by any stretch and one would for the most part feel safe near anywhere. The above examples are not all that I can give but they are all people who I know. I drive Hwy 17, sometimes at night, sometimes alone, sometimes with my wife and kids. My family shops at the Mall and we have used that same ATM.

The above type situations are likely anywhere in the US at any time and any of us could be a victom. My preparations for defending myself and my family are made with this realization squarely in view.

[Model520Fan]

Originally Posted by Frank Drebin

The last numbers I checked, NYC only had a murder rate of less than 7 per 100,000. That's pretty remarkable. It was nowhere near the top 10. Washington DC is always up there, Detroit is usually in the mid 40's L.A. is around 20 and Gary, Indiana always seems to vie for murder capital, but NYC is relatively safe, as far as homicides go.

70 per million? How many million people are there in NYC? How many hundreds of people are murdered there every year? And homicide isn't the only violent crime I'd rather not be involved with.

How about if I don't think much of NYC because there are too many people there?

[FrankDrebin]

I don't like crowds either, but the fact remains, NYC is doing something right when it comes to their murder rate. It's very low for their size. It's definately not the place to use (anymore) to conjure up images of murder and probably even violent crime. However, Washington DC is always good to use for examples of mayhem and murder.

If Detroit had NYC's murder rate, they'd have something like 50 homicides a year. They have more homicides that every year that began as fights over food. I can't imagine Detroit with 50 homicides a year. They could assign one homicide cop to each homicide for several weeks each!

[Pezo]

I typically collect handguns out of interest like a hobby and shoot primarily for fun only, until I thought, You know how sad it would be if I became a victim of violence and was not armed to defend myself even knowing I have a handgun collection at home. It just hit me, to avoid this I now carry.

[hso]

I think JohnKSa said it very well.

Let me add a point or two.

Look at home security as a threat assment / vulnerabiltiy assessment exercise. Are you vulnerable to a violent encounter at home - Do you have an alarm system and is it posted at the street and on the doors and windows? Do you have a dog that barks at the approach of strangers to the house? Are the approaches to your property lit? Are your doors locked and strongly designed against break in? Can anyone and everyone see into your home? Can they get access to any doors or windows (even second story) and be concealed so that they have time to work on them (don't leave ladders out for others to steal or use)? Can you see anyone that may be at the door without having to open it? How deep you make these defences depends on the level of threat. If you live in a neighborhood with a local home invasion or breakin history you live under a very high threat and need very deep defenses that might add cell phone contact alarm service, shattergurad glass on doors and windows, bars/grills, steel doors, double dead bolts, motions sensor and remote control interior lights, attack dog, safe room, and probably a loaded firarm at your disposal at all times. If it's just the city or the region the threat drops. If the threat is low, but you are very vulnerable you need to improve your home's security (a gun is never a good substitute for good physical security of your home).

The next factor is how critical is the system you are protecting? Own just a couple of old records and some broken down furniture? Spend the money on renter's insurance and hope someone breaks in. Got a wife and child at home and some irreplacable personal property? Perhaps now we're where JohnKSa started us out?

BTW, No I don't have loaded firearms at every entrance to the property, but I have been burglarized in my earlier single days and the sick feeling of rage over a stereo system is something I never want trumped with my family.

[moa]

Washington DC is a great example. It is home of 21 LE agencies and it usually ranks as the murder capital of the national based upon the number of homicides per 100,000 citizens.

My state of Maryland has the toughest gun control laws in the nation according to the Brady Bunch, but leads the nation in armed robbery and been at the top or near the top for many years.

IIRC, in a recent hearing in the Maryland Senate, I think MD ranks way up there on assaults on LEOs. People are attacking armed police officers. MD is 19th in the nation population wise but is number four on attacks on LEOs.

[Bullrock]

I respectfully believe your fundamental thesis is flawed.

Perhaps I didn't understand. It was my impression that relientk1988 was refering to his impression 'is there are allot of stopping power, and what if speculations' posted on TFL. I didn't think for a moment it was a thesis. Unless you do selective reading here, he's right! There is! I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the postings, I just agree, there are allot of them.

It seems to me there are many folks who spend their life worrying about the BG being around the next corner, or who sweat their way through a car wash with their hand on their carry. I feel bad for that. This is America, and we all have the choice of where to live and raise our families. Work location, wife's preference, or being a retired senior naval officer is not an excuse, it's still a choice we all have.

I grew up in small-town (1,900) USA where everyone knew, everyone. After military service, I chose to leave for a larger town, where I could make a better living. When the big job came along, My wife and I chose to stay in Maine close to our family, and not to take the big job in the big city. It cost us a better retirement, but it was our choice and we're glad we made it.

Having said all that, relientk1988, I shoot trap for funnn! I shoot handguns for fun also. I love running 17 rounds in a row into a target at 35'. I also shoot handguns to stay sharp just in case the BG is around the next corner. I also use a 12 Gauge Pump and a PT-92 for home defense. I just don't live my life waiting for the BG to appear as many posters I have read on TFL seem to imply they do.

relientk1988, that was a nice post. It sure drew some interest!