7MM Mag Recoil with Muzzle Brake

[USAF Ret]

Can anyone make a comparison to a 7mm Rem Mag with a muzzle brake tothe recoil of a non muzzle braked bolt rifle. Comparison would be standard hunting rifle about 7-7.5 lbs without a scope.

i.e, a 7mm Rem Mag with a brake has about the same felt recoil of XX caliber without a brake.

Largest calibers I own are a 308 and 270. 308s haves brakes and are a breeze to shoot. 270 does not and with my neck and shoulder issues, that is about my limit.

Would like one larger caliber I can shoot well if I get a chance to elk hunt before I am in worse shape.

My issues are degenerative and will only get worse with time.

Thanks!

[taylorce1]

I wish I could give you a satisfactory answer, but felt recoil is so subjective to the shooter. Reduced recoil is also dependent on the brake used, not all mitigate recoil the same. The best way would be for you to shoot a 7mm Mag with a brake.

[USAF Ret]

Originally Posted by taylorce1

I wish I could give you a satisfactory answer, but felt recoil is so subjective to the shooter. Reduced recoil is also dependent on the brake used, not all mitigate recoil the same. The best way would be for you to shoot a 7mm Mag with a brake.

Yeah, don't know anyone who has one. Thanks for the input.

[Paul B.]

I have to agree with taylorforce. However with that said, I would have absolutely no problem hunting elk with a .270 if that was all I had or more recoil being a serious problem.

If it were me. I'd work up a decent, accurate max load to that .270 with a Nosler Accubond, Partition or even the Sierra 150 gr. Game King. Might even give a Barnes TTSX a look see.

I have carried a .270 on several elk hunts. Just didn't see any elk. However, I have been on several elk hunts where my hunting partner carried his beat up old Remington 721 and shot several elk, two of which I witnessed. One was at about 100 yards. He was using the Sierra 150 gr. Game King. One shot, dead elk. The other shot was one I wouldn't want to try, but he shot the elk at a laser measured 465 yards, one shot, one kill. Bullet was the 150 gr. Sierra mentioned. My preference for elk would be one of the two Nosler bullets I mentioned earlier. Find out which bullet your rifle likes best, load up and go hunting.
Paul B.

[USAF Ret]

Originally Posted by Paul B.

I have to agree with taylorforce. However with that said, I would have absolutely no problem hunting elk with a .270 if that was all I had or more recoil being a serious problem.

If it were me. I'd work up a decent, accurate max load to that .270 with a Nosler Accubond, Partition or even the Sierra 150 gr. Game King. Might even give a Barnes TTSX a look see.

I have carried a .270 on several elk hunts. Just didn't see any elk. However, I have been on several elk hunts where my hunting partner carried his beat up old Remington 721 and shot several elk, two of which I witnessed. One was at about 100 yards. He was using the Sierra 150 gr. Game King. One shot, dead elk. The other shot was one I wouldn't want to try, but he shot the elk at a laser measured 465 yards, one shot, one kill. Bullet was the 150 gr. Sierra mentioned. My preference for elk would be one of the two Nosler bullets I mentioned earlier. Find out which bullet your rifle likes best, load up and go hunting.
Paul B.

Thank you sir. I am building my reloading equipment. Have the 270 dies and a little bit of Norma brass. Got a few more things to get. I am partial to the Nosler Accubonds and Partitions myself. Might get some Sierra Game Kings as well.

Much appreciated. My problem is that I am always looking at different rifles and calibers. Maybe I just need folks to talk me out of it. Two largest calibers I have are 270 and 308.

[GeauxTide]

Have loaded for the 7mm Remington since the 70s. Recoil is the same as an '06. One thing to remember - the 7mm needs a 26" barrel to realize full potential. I put miine in a Magpul Hunter, taking any recoil concerns off the table. Shoots 1/2" with 154 Hornady Interbonds and GTX.

[USAF Ret]

Originally Posted by GeauxTide

Have loaded for the 7mm Remington since the 70s. Recoil is the same as an '06. One thing to remember - the 7mm needs a 26" barrel to realize full potential. I put miine in a Magpul Hunter, taking any recoil concerns off the table. Shoots 1/2" with 154 Hornady Interbonds and GTX.

Mine would be an elk rifle, so that wold come in pretty heavy, right?

I noticed in your signature you reload most of what I have. I am building up supplies and components and plan on starting reloading after hunting season this year. I was watching some Nosler reloading videos and the guy said if you are starting, it is good to get a universal powder that is good for multiple calibers. I am reloading for 6.5G, 6.5CR, 308WIN and 270WIN. Any suggestions for one stop shopping for powder and primers to get started?

[FITASC]

There is a difference between felt recoil, aka kick, and actual recoil. The actual recoil will be the same assuming identical weight, velocity and mass of the payload. felt recoil is subjective. Many do not consider gun fit when it comes to rifles compared to shotguns, but the same rules apply. LOP, drop, pitch, etc will all add something to the felt recoil experience

[taylorce1]

Originally Posted by GeauxTide

Have loaded for the 7mm Remington since the 70s. Recoil is the same as an '06.

It might recoil the same as your .30-06, but not the same as all .30-06 rifles. My .30-06 is a handful with 180's but it weighs about 7.5 lbs with a full mag. Id rather shoot .375 Ruger with 270 grain bullets all day.

[bamaranger]

I have never shot a 7mm mag with a brake.

The 7mm mag was very popular in a deer lease in which I was a member a few years back. When the Browning BOSS brake/ tuning system came out, one of our guys bought one, and began hunting with it. He took a shot from a shooting house. He said the blast was fearsome, reflected off the walls and roof of the hut. He began carrying muffs if he sat a shooting house, and sold the rifle at the end of the season. I have read where certain guides and outfitters discourage or prohibit brakes due to blast, as it it particularly loud adjacent the shooter.

I've always read the perceived recoil of a 7mm mag is about like that of an '06, and what little shooting I've done with a 7 mag and standard barrel seems to prove that out. But it is all subjective, person to person and rifle to rifle. I have an '06 carbine that is a vicious kicker with 180gr all up loads, so much so I load it down.....it kills deer just fine BTW.

Honestly, if the .270/.308 rifles you have on hand are suitable to the task , I would not hesitate to hunt elk with them. Loaded with today's premium bullets of appropriate weight, with good shooting, I'd think you'd be set for elk at the distances most of us should be shooting anyhow. The Nosler Partition would be my benchmark. Much better off shooting a rifle with which you know and are confident and comfortable , then a new mag that of which one might be leary.

I will likely never get the chance to hunt elk, but I hope your opportunity comes to pass.

[Jim Watson]

All I can say is that a friend reports that a .280 Remington bullet does not bounce off elk hide. He doesn't want a mag-numb.

[stagpanther]

All I can say is that a friend reports that a .280 Remington bullet does not bounce off elk hide. He doesn't want a mag-numb.

.284 is my all-around favorite caliber bullet.

To the OP's point, I'd take a different tack and see about padding options between the stock and your shoulder area. As long as you even think about recoil hit while pulling the trigger--you're not going to get optimal results. I've shot countless bad groups to prove it.

[USAF Ret]

Originally Posted by bamaranger

I have never shot a 7mm mag with a brake.

The 7mm mag was very popular in a deer lease in which I was a member a few years back. When the Browning BOSS brake/ tuning system came out, one of our guys bought one, and began hunting with it. He took a shot from a shooting house. He said the blast was fearsome, reflected off the walls and roof of the hut. He began carrying muffs if he sat a shooting house, and sold the rifle at the end of the season. I have read where certain guides and outfitters discourage or prohibit brakes due to blast, as it it particularly loud adjacent the shooter.

I've always read the perceived recoil of a 7mm mag is about like that of an '06, and what little shooting I've done with a 7 mag and standard barrel seems to prove that out. But it is all subjective, person to person and rifle to rifle. I have an '06 carbine that is a vicious kicker with 180gr all up loads, so much so I load it down.....it kills deer just fine BTW.

Honestly, if the .270/.308 rifles you have on hand are suitable to the task , I would not hesitate to hunt elk with them. Loaded with today's premium bullets of appropriate weight, with good shooting, I'd think you'd be set for elk at the distances most of us should be shooting anyhow. The Nosler Partition would be my benchmark. Much better off shooting a rifle with which you know and are confident and comfortable , then a new mag that of which one might be leary.

I will likely never get the chance to hunt elk, but I hope your opportunity comes to pass.

I may not ever get to hunt elk, either. Lived out west several years, but back then it was everything archery. Can't shoot a bow anymore due to my disabilities. Never got to harvest one. Had one shot and misjudged yardage. My son and I had always talked about doing an elk hunt together. He lived in CO, but passed away a year ago. He would want me to go at least one time.

I will stick with what I have. Starting reloading here soon, but boy are the Partitions and Accubonds hard to find. Only places that have them "in stock" seem to be scam sites. I got some factory Accubonds in 308, but could not get the bolt to close with them. Sent them back to Nosler and waiting on them to send me a replacement.

I was also about to say I am waiting for the 170 grain Norma TipStrike to be in stock. Just checked and they are back in stock. Ordered 4 boxes. So, between that and the 308 165 grain Accubonds, it sounds like a Magnum is a waste of money. Of course, always looking for a reason to buy another caliber, haha.

Much appreciated.

[44 AMP]

Can anyone make a comparison to a 7mm Rem Mag with a muzzle brake tothe recoil of a non muzzle braked bolt rifle.

Anyone can make the comparison but without more information, it will be worthless, other than in the most general sense.

A muzzle brake that functions as a recoil reducer (and not all do) means that the gun with the brake will have less felt recoil.

How much less? NOBODY KNOWS. At least, not without additional information that in this case, has not been given.

What muzzle brake? How much does it reduce the recoil?? 10%? 15% 30%??? they are not all equal.

[GeauxTide]

Mine would be an elk rifle, so that wold come in pretty heavy, right?

I noticed in your signature you reload most of what I have. I am building up supplies and components and plan on starting reloading after hunting season this year. I was watching some Nosler reloading videos and the guy said if you are starting, it is good to get a universal powder that is good for multiple calibers. I am reloading for 6.5G, 6.5CR, 308WIN and 270WIN. Any suggestions for one stop shopping for powder and primers to get started?

I had the 7 in a Bell and Carlson stock that is a pound lighter and handles the recoil ok. Varget or H4895 would be good in the Creed and 308 and ok in the 270. Need a faster powder in the Grendel. I've only used CFE223 because it shoots 5 in a 3/8" one hole.

[Scorch]

As a gunsmith, I install quite a few muzzle brakes, and short of knowing what kind of muzzle brake it was and how it was installed, no one can tell you how much recoil reduction you will get with an unspecified muzzle brake. Asking how much recoil a rifle has with a muzzle brake compared to one without a brake is like asking what kind of mileage my car will get compared to a red one, without knowing anything else about the car.

That said, a good brake can reduce recoil up to 50%-ish. We have actually tested our brakes against other brakes on the market and NO BRAKE we tested got more than 50% recoil reduction. That said, the same brake installed by someone who knows nothing about how to install brakes can get significantly less recoil reduction. Also, cartridges with large cases operating at high pressures give higher recoil reduction than smaller cases operating at lower pressures.

So, after saying all that, if you start out with a good brake and the brake is installed properly, I can say that a 7mm Rem Mag with a good brake can feel like a 308 when fired. It will be significantly louder, but recoil will be reduced. Possibly most significaly, no one can tell you which will make an animal deader.

[USAF Ret]

Originally Posted by Scorch

As a gunsmith, I install quite a few muzzle brakes, and short of knowing what kind of muzzle brake it was and how it was installed, no one can tell you how much recoil reduction you will get with an unspecified muzzle brake. Asking how much recoil a rifle has with a muzzle brake compared to one without a brake is like asking what kind of mileage my car will get compared to a red one, without knowing anything else about the car.

That said, a good brake can reduce recoil up to 50%-ish. We have actually tested our brakes against other brakes on the market and NO BRAKE we tested got more than 50% recoil reduction. That said, the same brake installed by someone who knows nothing about how to install brakes can get significantly less recoil reduction. Also, cartridges with large cases operating at high pressures give higher recoil reduction than smaller cases operating at lower pressures.

So, after saying all that, if you start out with a good brake and the brake is installed properly, I can say that a 7mm Rem Mag with a good brake can feel like a 308 when fired. It will be significantly louder, but recoil will be reduced. Possibly most significaly, no one can tell you which will make an animal deader.

Well said, thanks Scorch.

I have a 308 Christensen with a factory muzzle brake. Light rifle. Has about the same recoil as a 243.

[jmr40]

The 308 (or 270) you have will kill an elk farther than you can probably shoot. Save your money and hunt with what you have. A 7mm magnum is a good cartridge but offers no advantage over what you already have until you start taking shots over 500 yards.

But if you just want a 7 mag recoil just isn't that bad. With the same/similar bullet weights and in comparable rifles you'll never notice the difference between 7 mag and 30-06. Very little difference in trajectory of performance either.

Modern 308 loads are 100-200 fps faster than 30-06 loads from before WW-2 and it had an excellent reputation as an elk rifle. I'm not a huge 270 fan, but it simply works too.

[USAF Ret]

Originally Posted by jmr40

The 308 (or 270) you have will kill an elk farther than you can probably shoot. Save your money and hunt with what you have. A 7mm magnum is a good cartridge but offers no advantage over what you already have until you start taking shots over 500 yards.

But if you just want a 7 mag recoil just isn't that bad. With the same/similar bullet weights and in comparable rifles you'll never notice the difference between 7 mag and 30-06. Very little difference in trajectory of performance either.

Modern 308 loads are 100-200 fps faster than 30-06 loads from before WW-2 and it had an excellent reputation as an elk rifle. I'm not a huge 270 fan, but it simply works too.

Yeah, this was a good conversation. I am sticking with the 270 and 308. Will take both. Just have one for backup, just in case. I have enough ammo that I can reload brass and shoot for the rest of my life.

[ChimpMunk20]

Recoil from 7 MM is about 28-30 ft #, 30-06 with 180's is about 25 t#. you have t oconsider the weight of the rifle. the lighter it is the more felt recoil. I have a 338 win mag that weighs 7.5 #. after 2 shots it took it back for a brake.

You should get a minimum reduction of about 1/3. Possibly as high as 1/2.

ear muffs and plugs a must.

you neighbors will probably not like you at the shooting range.

[44 AMP]

I can say that a 7mm Rem Mag with a good brake can feel like a 308 when fired.

This made me smile, remembering a day long ago when I shot a 7mm Mag and a .308 Win one after the other, and they felt the same to me, in recoil.

Neither one had a brake, and the recoil felt the same to me. They were both what in those days we called "good kickers!"

The difference was that the 7mm Rem mag was a friend's Rem 700 BDL, and the .308Win was my Rem 600.

The .308 also seemed louder, though that was probably because the muzzle was several inches closer to my face.

Recoil felt the same to me, but the 700 was a couple pounds heavier rifle. This wasn't a case of a "soft shooting" 7mm Mag, it was a case of a very light weight 308 kicking as hard as a standard 7mm Mag.

Stock fit to the shooter and gun weight as well as the amount of powder being burned all affect felt recoil. And, for some people, so does muzzle blast. A good muzzle brake, correctly installed will reduce the felt recoil, and it will increase the muzzle blast to close bystanders, because the vented gas is literally angled to the side and slightly rearward. There's no free lunch.

[USAF Ret]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

This made me smile, remembering a day long ago when I shot a 7mm Mag and a .308 Win one after the other, and they felt the same to me, in recoil.

Neither one had a brake, and the recoil felt the same to me. They were both what in those days we called "good kickers!"

The difference was that the 7mm Rem mag was a friend's Rem 700 BDL, and the .308Win was my Rem 600.

The .308 also seemed louder, though that was probably because the muzzle was several inches closer to my face.

Recoil felt the same to me, but the 700 was a couple pounds heavier rifle. This wasn't a case of a "soft shooting" 7mm Mag, it was a case of a very light weight 308 kicking as hard as a standard 7mm Mag.

Stock fit to the shooter and gun weight as well as the amount of powder being burned all affect felt recoil. And, for some people, so does muzzle blast. A good muzzle brake, correctly installed will reduce the felt recoil, and it will increase the muzzle blast to close bystanders, because the vented gas is literally angled to the side and slightly rearward. There's no free lunch.

No free lunch...so true. I really need to bite the bullet, pun intended, and get a couple of suppressors. I reckon that's close to less expensive lunch (well, taking into account the price of the suppressor and tax stamp), but then you have the extended barrel (unless you get a short barrel rifle) and some added weight.

[Red Devil]

Originally Posted by USAF Ret

Thank you sir. I am building my reloading equipment. Have the 270 dies and a little bit of Norma brass. Got a few more things to get. I am partial to the Nosler Accubonds and Partitions myself. Might get some Sierra Game Kings as well.

Much appreciated. My problem is that I am always looking at different rifles and calibers. Maybe I just need folks to talk me out of it. Two largest calibers I have are 270 and 308.

With good bullets - the .270 Winchester is more than adequate for even bull elk out past 300 yards, especially if you reload.

- Barnes 140 gr. TSX
- Nosler 150-160 gr. Partition.

Even Federal Factory 150 gr. Partitions or 130 gr. Trophy Copper will do fine given good shot placement.

IF the .270 Winchester isn't big enough?

Get a 9.3x62mm Mauser or .35 Whelen, as that is your next step.




Red

[Logs]

My buddy has a Browning Boss 7mm bolt gun. The recoil is much less than my old Remington 700 bolt, but I can't give you anything scientific. Now it is also 2x louder with the break so wear hearing protection.

[Red Devil]

Originally Posted by Logs

My buddy has a Browning Boss 7mm bolt gun. The recoil is much less than my old Remington 700 bolt, but I can't give you anything scientific. Now it is also 2x louder with the break so wear hearing protection.

Why I won't have one on a hunting rifle.

They are ridiculous.




Red