The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: General Handgun Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 31, 2017, 11:30 AM   #51
cw308
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 2, 2010
Location: Plainview , Long Island NY
Posts: 3,863
fredvon4
Anyone with a box or star inside of those rockers was highly respected , 90 day wonders another story . Kids out of highschool we were but back then 1967 thinking back , we seemed and acted much older then the kids now . Enjoy your retirement .

Chris
cw308 is offline  
Old December 31, 2017, 04:39 PM   #52
fredvon4
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 18, 2010
Location: Lampasas Texas
Posts: 154
Thanks Chris
The experience was rewarding in many ways
Meeting a woman to love and respect and raising 3 successful citizens

My wife's story of enlisting and eventually being the Command Sergeants Major of 6th Air Calvary Brigade..
She was the first Aviation Female CSM one other gal beat her to Aviation E-9 buy a month or three but as a Staff Sergeants Major

This thread touches a lot on what we all think we KNOW
Some thoughts on stolen valor
Wisdom of arming all soldiers all the time
The variances of combat zone...the culture, and the willful disregard for some regulation or order

My dad was a Korea and Viet Nam combat Officer

As stated, I did not go to the Nam but from the NCOs who trained me and my dad's eyes I got a fair understanding of how that theater of ops was managed....VERY POORLY IMO

Best left for debate on another forum and a different topic

As a senior NCO in First Gulf war and subsequent Iraq/Afghanistan/Kuwait/Sinai missions

I can tell you there were and are civilian weapons in every theater ...some sanctioned and many forbiden

My recount for the temp assignment to 8Th Bat 101 returning to Ft Campbell March/April 1991

Un fortunately for that CSM he had to deal with a conex of 11 or more forbidden AK 47s shipped by one of the flight crews....several months after the fact...

One of the dummies got his "captured" AK and went nutz with it off base... Mom and Dad actually turned him in to the Army CID...But he was already on the way to me in the 4/159 aviation regiment Echerdingen AAF Stuttgart Germany

I know him cuz he was in my unit in Germany after the gulf war and I had to deal with him and CID as they fussed with him to rat out all the other crew members who had the unauthorized AKs

Another great way some dummies were caught and AR-15ed or Courts martial...

Conex full of personal gear miss-shipped or lost.....later found....while those soldiers got Paid claims for lost property

CID tagged 1SG me to round up 17 of my soldiers and bring to rail head where the conex is finally arrived 18 months later... one by one each soldier has to inventory what is HIS in the conex...then explaine why the gold bracelet or diamond ring or other high dollar item he claimed, and got paid for, is NOT in the locked conex....OOOOPS!

Majors, Captains, Senior sergeants, lower enlisted... of 17 ...12 buggered them selves pretty hard-- all the commissioned officers lost their careers

Opps forgot the point...there were 5 AK 47s and 3 Hand Grenades in the conex...

NOT one of the 17 copped to having put them in there...Ya Think!
fredvon4 is offline  
Old December 31, 2017, 05:16 PM   #53
cw308
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 2, 2010
Location: Plainview , Long Island NY
Posts: 3,863
fredvon4
That was a good read . I'm sure we both could right a book . We'll be talking again on some other post . For now Have A Happy & Healthy New Year . All My Respect .

Chris
cw308 is offline  
Old January 1, 2018, 03:14 PM   #54
ROCK6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 6, 2004
Location: Georgia/Afghanistan
Posts: 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Go_Ordnance
I call shenanigans. CENTCOM policy is no personal weapons or ammo. Company, Battalion, Brigade, Division, etc... commanders don't outrank the CENTCOM commander. They aren't approving personal weapons.
The majority of cases I knew of were the early stages of Afghanistan and Iraq. I don't think there was much attention paid to CENTCOM policy at the outset. Since about 2005, both theaters were pretty well established and policies much easier to enforce (or at least more pressure on commanders willing to ignore them). There were more than a few cases where a BHP or Glock was "obtained" and passed along during RIP/TOAs and transitions to other units. I haven't seen anything similar since 2009 to present in Afghanistan. If you've spent any time around or with the 82nd, you know they have their own policies that supersede everything else in DA or DoD (where's that damn sarcasm font!).

ROCK6
ROCK6 is offline  
Old January 1, 2018, 04:13 PM   #55
Wyosmith
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 29, 2010
Location: Shoshoni Wyoming
Posts: 2,713
My time in the Marine Corps was in an era that there was what was officially forbidden and what was officially permitted, and then there was what we sometimes did. As Kragwy said, troops do what they can get away with. I had a friend who was a Marine before me and in his tour in Vietnam has had his sister ship over a Hawes 44 Mag which he carried for many months. Sometime in his tour his platoon leader (1st Lt) was replaced by another and shortly after that they got in a fight and he shot an NVA soldier with the 44. The 1dt Lt saw it and made a fuss, so he was required to ship it home. He actually shipped it to an Ari Force buddy he had who was stationed in Guam as I recall, and his buddy took it home for him because if some glitch with shipping the gun back to AZ where his home was.
The platoon leader that he has before was 100% cool with his carrying it. But the new Lt wanted to make some point of his authority I guess.

I had my own personal Colt Combat Commander in my days as a marine, but I only used it for fun and for my own time. I never took it out on any patrol. Why would I? They gave me a 1911A1 as a standard issue.

I also had a 50-140 Sharps that I would bring to Rifle Qualification and a bunch of us (especially the officers) would have fun with it at the 300 and 500 yard lines after the quals were finished It was a big hit with the gun-guys, which MANY Marines were. I am told that today such things are taboo, but that was in the 70s and it was cool to do it then as long as the company Commander knew in advance. After my first appearance with the Sharps not only did our C.O. know, but he'd ask me to bring it.

It was not uncommon for Marines to bring out their private arms, but I never saw one used in the field. I know of several Marines that did so, but only from what they told me.
We had a CWO4 who used a Browning High Power in Vietnam, and one Gunnery Sargent took his own M70 30-06 Winchester over.

My CO told me if I wanted to take my Combat Commander on deployment it was OK with him, but I was not willing to take it just because of the chance of loosing it, and the issue 1911 was just fine with me. Our Master Sargent took an Ithica M37 Riot gun that belongs to him, but he said it "lived in his office" and he never took it out or fired a shot with it in his whole time in Vietnam.

Last edited by Wyosmith; January 1, 2018 at 04:23 PM.
Wyosmith is offline  
Old January 4, 2018, 01:15 AM   #56
armoredman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 5,295
All of you old warhorses are worthy of great respect; thank you for your service in times of peace and war.
armoredman is offline  
Old January 4, 2018, 05:38 AM   #57
Rob228
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 29, 2010
Location: Hampstead NC
Posts: 1,450
There is the other side of this where some of your Marines carrying issued MEUSOC 1911's get detained by someone who doesn't know any better who then turns them over to the MPs who hold on to them until a Company Commander or higher can get there with proof that they are indeed issued pistols.
Rob228 is offline  
Old January 6, 2018, 12:06 AM   #58
GyMac
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 19, 2012
Posts: 189
In my Marine Corps it was NEVER allowed, although I did see a general with a Browning Hi Power during the Gulf War.
GyMac is offline  
Old January 7, 2018, 03:58 PM   #59
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,677
Quote:
although I did see a general with a Browning Hi Power during the Gulf War
.

General grade officers pretty much get to write their own rules, only a higher ranking General can overrule them.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is online now  
Old January 8, 2018, 08:09 PM   #60
ThomasT
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 22, 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,746
Interesting thread. I never served in the military so I only know what I have read. I have read that now if you have a personal weapon and kill an enemy soldier with it you can be charged with murder.

In one of my old Guns & Ammo annuals there is a picture of a guy in Vietnam that had a Marlin 444 sent to him and he used it as a Bunker Buster. He disappeared in the jungles and was never seen again.

My buds brother went to Nam and the only thing he brought back in his duffle bag was pot. I saw a picture of it piled up with little green army men placed all over it. He said it took him two years to smoke it all.

I know one other person that says he carried back a full auto M-16 and full auto AK-47 and has them stashed in his attic. I have never seen them, never asked to see them and do not want to see them. Since he passed away I have wondered what happened to them.

Believe these stories if you want or don't. Makes me no difference.
ThomasT is offline  
Old January 8, 2018, 09:39 PM   #61
RAEIndustries
Member
 
Join Date: October 6, 2017
Location: Colorado
Posts: 25
Sounds like maybe youre still a little ate up with your “old friend” more thn military protocol curiosity
RAEIndustries is offline  
Old January 11, 2018, 05:16 PM   #62
Buzzcook
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 29, 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 6,126
Donald Burgett carried a 1911 that was given to him by his father, used it too.

Sadly Burgett died last year, but you can still read his books or listen to his stories on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWeDf5IlxR8

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Burgett
Buzzcook is offline  
Old January 11, 2018, 05:44 PM   #63
BarryLee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 29, 2010
Location: The ATL (OTP)
Posts: 3,944
Hey everyone thanks for the feedback. My initial post dealt with policies and practices in the current military. From what I’ve gathered it would be very difficult to carry a personal gun over to Iraq and back, but not 100% impossible.

Now, I want to very much thank all of our resident American Heroes who offered their personal experiences and observations from your time in service. This site is a fountain of valuable information and experiences. Once again I really appreciate not only your feedback, but more importantly your service to our Nation.
__________________
A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.
- Milton Friedman
BarryLee is offline  
Old January 11, 2018, 07:20 PM   #64
DaleA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 12, 2002
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 5,292
I’ll toss in this old URBAN LEGEND just because I remembered it and it’s slightly relevant.

While serving in Viet Nam Joe obtained a fully functioning AK-47. Deciding he wanted to keep this for his very own he disassembled the weapon and cleverly mixed a piece in each time he sent package of souvenirs home to his wife with a note saying ‘if there’s anything you don’t know what to do with, don’t throw it out just set it aside in a box.’ After weeks of this he finally got the last piece shipped back with a note saying “take the box with all the extra souvenirs to my brother, he’ll know what to do with them.” She did this and a week later he received a package from home containing his fully assembled AK-47.
DaleA is offline  
Old January 12, 2018, 01:41 AM   #65
armoredman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 5,295
Like Radar with the jeep?
armoredman is offline  
Old January 12, 2018, 10:30 PM   #66
2wheelwander
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 9, 2018
Posts: 538
Great thread bringing back a few memories. Circa 1990 I was a radio operator in a Patriot missile battery in Germany. Out on ops a guy lost his M-16. Things hit the fan. The entire unit had to remain in the field until the rifle was found, or, for another 2 weeks, whichever came first when we were finally allowed to come in. In that time things got so desperate we were digging holes for the sole purpose of sticking metal detectors in the ground, refilling those holes, then dig another. Wasn't found, we get back to the rear, this poor guy has the 2 stripes he had taken off his collar and walked around in tears until a few weeks later they found his M-16. Investigators went door to door in the countryside and eventually found it. A young German kid was watching the field ops from the shadows and while this soldier was taking a leak in the woods, he forgot about his rifle and walked away. The kid snagged it and brought it home. Dad for some reason was letting it slide, but quickly coughed it up with uniformed investigators at the door.

My unit was providing critical MOS's for Desert Storm and I had a CZ-85 POF bought in Germany I was determined I was going to take if I was called. Many of us thought it would be like Viet Nam. It was a quick war, I never got called but held for stop loss. My unit went after I ETS'd and a buddy who went left his CZ-75 behind and reported exactly what was said here. Getting it there would be cake, getting it back - wouldn't happen.
2wheelwander is offline  
Old January 13, 2018, 06:29 PM   #67
Big Shrek
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 6, 2009
Location: NorthWest Florida
Posts: 1,358
Supply Guys are your best friends when wanting to get unauthorized gear
to and from Theater. Did ya'll learn NOTHING??

Naval Aviation Rates quickly learned that the AK's were their Genie Inna Bottle!!

And Army Supply Officers often do resemble Sgt. Bilko (Phil Silver's Version) in
both word, deed, and haircut

I'd swear that all of 'em have to take a course in Bootlegging to get past E-3
__________________
Marlin Specialist
Calico Specialist
A gun should be a tool in the hands of a deadly weapon, not a deadly weapon in the hands of a tool.
Big Shrek is offline  
Old January 15, 2018, 09:28 PM   #68
Bartholomew Roberts
member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 8,462
For what it is worth, watching "Chain of Command", I just noticed the Lt. Gen. flying the F-22 had a very nice custom 1911.
Bartholomew Roberts is offline  
Old January 16, 2018, 04:44 PM   #69
shafter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 23, 2009
Posts: 1,624
It wouldn't be the first time a personally owned weapon was carried into battle; but it also wouldn't be the first time a member of the male species has lied about being a combat vet to get a girl either.
shafter is offline  
Old January 16, 2018, 05:38 PM   #70
Jim Watson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 18,486
Quote:
Other troops have managed to take personal handguns TO the theater of operations, but it's almost impossible to bring it back.
Since security GOING is not as tight, personal handguns have been taken.
Often the gun is sold or given to another soldier when it's time to return home.
I have heard reliably of this, for some periods. You could get it in but you couldn't bring it back.

Friend of mine was very distressed to learn what the first generation Gerber Mk II with cranked hilt was worth now, having sold his to a troop without orders home yet.
Jim Watson is offline  
Old January 17, 2018, 01:52 PM   #71
SIGSHR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 13, 2005
Posts: 4,700
Yes, not worth trying.
SIGSHR is offline  
Old January 17, 2018, 06:09 PM   #72
hdwhit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 22, 2017
Posts: 1,011
Quote:
Go Ordnance asked:
Is there supposed to be a relevant point somewhere in there?
Yes. There is a difference between commanders approving something that would have been against policy, if not outright illegal, for them to approve and them turning a blind eye to the infraction.
hdwhit is offline  
Old January 18, 2018, 12:07 AM   #73
armoredman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 5,295
A Gerber MKII is worth anything? Wow, we used them as CHEAP boot knives back in the 80s....
armoredman is offline  
Old January 19, 2018, 02:45 AM   #74
rkbanet
Member
 
Join Date: April 16, 2012
Posts: 64
Possession, use etc of POW's are banned under General Order Number 1.
rkbanet is offline  
Old January 21, 2018, 01:50 PM   #75
jhenry
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2006
Location: Ozarks
Posts: 1,840
It happens

Like many things in life, it isn't so much what the book says, it's whether someone wants to make an issue of it. In combat zones I have personally seen an enlisted troop out of 2/75 loose a personal 1911 and helped him look for it, never did find it, saw a USAF chopper pilot with an N Frame Smith in a shoulder holster, and had a Captain that liked to tote around a Tokarev 7.62x25 pistol that he had captured many moons ago and was fond of. It happens.
__________________
"A Liberal is someone who doesn't care what you do, as long as it's mandatory". - Charles Krauthammer
jhenry is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.12941 seconds with 11 queries