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Old September 4, 2017, 01:29 PM   #1
UncleEd
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''Shorty'' revolvers, the market for them

I recently started a thread titled Revolvers Comeback that mentions it looked like revolvers are reappearing in LGSs.

Another thread discusses the Ruger .357 Redhawk with three inch barrel,
I believe.

In both threads the discussion and illustrations sometimes centered on
what I'd call traditional service/hunting length barrels, 4 up to 6 or more inches.

I think both threads touch on how the manufacturers, meaning for most
of us Smith & Wesson, Ruger and now Colt and Kimber, see the market in
the 21st Century.

Apparently the J-frame with all the emphasis on concealed carry has done
quite well.

But a lot of shooters today, myself included, just prefer the shorter barrels.
I cite the Ruger GP 100 3-incher, the Smith 686 pluses with 2.5 or 3 inches.
(Isn't that the market also in autos with shorter and lighter 1911s, the Glock
19 over the service sized Clock 17?)

While the Redhawk 8-shot .357 is quite wide, how much thinner is
the Smith 627 8-shot? And I believe the Smith has sold quite well.

From what I've seen at my local gun stores around North Atlanta, the
snubbies in .38 and .357 all move quite well. Much has to do with
personal protection, concealed carry as well as home defense.

And I really think Colt with its new Cobra and Kimber with its K6 are
also on the right track. (The Colt Detective Special sized revolver I think
has always been sorely missed on the new gun market.)

The revolver will thrive in the 21st Century but not primarily as something
sought as a service weapon nor for hunting/distance target shooting
though those disciplines will also add to the continued life of the revolver.

I see a bright future for revolvers, "shorty revolvers," in the 21st Century.
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Old September 4, 2017, 04:12 PM   #2
2damnold4this
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I think you are correct that short barrel revolvers will continue to be popular because of the personal protection market.
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Old September 4, 2017, 09:28 PM   #3
Bob Wright
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From my observation, the "shorty" revolvers are often made up of the huge .475 and .500 calibers, which seem to me to be rather awkward. The blast from these calibers must be severe in a snub nose revolver which certainly would hamper follow up shots. These on the Ruger Super Redhawk or Redhawk guns.

I really see no advantage to shortening these below four inches or so. I carry a .45 Colt Blackhawk with 4 5/8" barrel daily and have never felt a 2 1/2" or 3" would be any more portable. For woods carry I have carried my 7 1/2" Super Blackhawk and it, too, seemed equally portable and handy. And certainly that 7 1/2" barrel contributed to my making some shots I would not have attempted with a shorter barrel.

My observations only.

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Old September 4, 2017, 09:33 PM   #4
Bob Wright
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UncleEd said:

Quote:
The revolver will thrive in the 21st Century but not primarily as something
sought as a service weapon nor for hunting/distance target shooting
though those disciplines will also add to the continued life of the revolver.
Not for hunting/distance target shooting?

Please explain. Seems to me there are a lot of revolvers being made/converted to some might potent calibers not to be used on the hunting field.

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Old September 4, 2017, 09:52 PM   #5
UncleEd
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By "shorty" I'm thinking as much in the K-frame and L-frame class for
daily carry or home defense.

Such guns as the new Smith 66 with 2.5 barrel is an example as are the 686 models with
2.5 and 3 inch barrels as well as the Ruger 3-inch GP 100 which is
the same as the L-frame. The Smith 69 also seems to be developing
its fans. And Ruger issued the .44 Special in its GP 100 frame.

And of course the traditional 2 inches be they J frame or K frame and also
Ruger's SP 101 I see as selling well in the future..

The big blasters such as the .500 caliber were not in my thinking and
more novelty although some see them as woodland protectors or other
uses.

I believe that the newer modern ammo, be it for the now shorter
barreled autos or the revolver loads in .38 and .357, help promote the
smaller framed guns rather than the the N frames or the 6-inch barreled
K-frame classics Smith was so famous for.

While I personally like a 4-inch barrel I think the desirability for one
fades compared to the newer models.
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Old September 5, 2017, 05:55 AM   #6
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I think that the market for smaller handguns that are more easily carried and concealed in general has grown tremendously. This applies to both semi's and revolvers, they each have their good and bad points so people are buying them based on whichever criteria they feel is more important. My first carry was a Taurus snubby, J frame size. I liked it and it was pretty accurate for its intended use, it did require a fair amount of practice to use but grouped well. Unfortunately no matter what I tri d I always shot it about 2 1/2" to the left so I traded it off. I finally wound up with my LC9s and for me it's been great.
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Old September 5, 2017, 08:56 PM   #7
CDR_Glock
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''Shorty'' revolvers, the market for them

Portability for a woods gun is key, and there is always a market for a gun that can be easily taken on a hike or hunt. Even a backpacker/Guide would have an easier time carrying a powerful handgun Magnum, less encumbered, over a Henry Lever Action 45-50 rifle (my wish list).

357 Magnum/EDC
3" and below guns are surprisingly more accurate than people give credit. My friend shot a 3" group at 50 yards with his 640. I can consistently hit steel targets at 50 and 75 yards with a 357. I could but probably wouldn't carry a 44 Magnum. The sound is devastating for bystanders and overpenetration in an urban/suburban setting is not ideal.

The Woods

44 Magnum
Now stretch out the hotter ammo, and a 100 or 125 yard shot is attainable in a 3" 44 Magnum. Follow up shots are not an issue, at least for me, in double action.

454 Casull
I also have a Ruger Alaskan 454 2.5". I have not practiced with it much as I have only had 50 rounds through it. But I have hit a 150 yard plate a few times with it (single action). This with a can of bear spray would be my choice.



Hunting
Now, would I use these shorties for hunting? Sure, at a more reasonable 50-70 yard distance. Definitely in Single action. If I wanted to reach out beyond that, then I'd use my 8 3/8" 450 S&W XVR, instead.

Hiking
But for a hiking gun, 3-4" is a good size. Up to 5, I would tolerate (5" Ruger Talo Toklat 454). I have a perfect chest rig that comfortable distributes the weight. It's more compact than my Bandolier Holster for scoped revolvers.

Obligatory pictures

Here My short barrel revolvers. Not many but they do what I'd need for the backwoods where I live.







Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
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Old September 5, 2017, 11:01 PM   #8
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Count me as one who doesn't "get" the 3" Redhawk in .357. That is a massive gun to stick such a short bbl on. Just... why? Does someone want to conceal that thing, really? It's like 1 3/4" wide! I guess someone is buying them... to me, that size and weight gun would be purely for open carry and in that case a 3" bbl would be of no benefit over a more effective 4"-6" bbl.
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Old September 6, 2017, 05:50 AM   #9
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For many people who want a gun for personal and home protection, as well as novice gun owners, point, pull trigger, gun goes bang , is a good thing. No magazines to load, slides to rack, safeties to manipulate, or jams to try and clear.
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Old September 6, 2017, 08:08 AM   #10
Lohman446
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Quote:
as well as novice gun owners, point, pull trigger, gun goes bang
A good share of these will go in drawers never to be looked at. Even those that are shot will often not be shot against longer barreled revolvers for a frame of reference.

Not a ton of people appreciate the skill level of shooting a short barreled revolver accurately.
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Old September 6, 2017, 10:24 AM   #11
arquebus357
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I have always avoided snub nose (3" and under) revolvers because I believed you would have a hard time hitting anything with one. Then I watched Hickok45 hit the 80 yard gong over and over with one. I'm now in the market for a shortie revolver in 357.

If I felt I could trust any of my local FFL's, I might think about getting one of those Astra's from Gun Brokers.
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Old September 6, 2017, 10:45 AM   #12
gnystrom
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I have a few 3" guns and shoot them at 25yds. on our indoor range on a regular basis. I see very little difference in accuracy when compared to my 4" guns.
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Old September 6, 2017, 10:50 AM   #13
Lohman446
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Quote:
I have a few 3" guns and shoot them at 25yds. on our indoor range on a regular basis. I see very little difference in accuracy when compared to my 4" guns.
You, and I, are not novice shooters. I have watched novice shooters go from a G17 to a snub nose revolver and the difference is distinct. I would bet it would be less so with a 5"
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Old September 6, 2017, 01:01 PM   #14
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The shorter the barrel the greater the popularity, price on the used market, and ease of selling.
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Old September 9, 2017, 10:35 AM   #15
WC145
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Small frame snubbies (3" or shorter) have been popular since they first came available for convenient concealed carry and will continue to be because their reasonably priced, simple to use and easy to conceal.

Medium (K frame size) snubbies have been popular for the same reasons, in addition they were a way for cops and the like to have a concealable version of their 4"-6" duty revolvers.

Large frame snubbies (L & N frame) have been popular because you can get big power in a (relatively) manageable size package. Before the factories were offering short barreled, big bore, large frame revolvers the market for the was being addressed by gunsmiths that cut full size guns down to 2.5"-3" and round butted the grip frames to make them more concealable. This had been done for decades, big guns like the .45ACP 1917 Colts and S&Ws were being cut down into concealable sizes from WW1 on through the 20s, 30s, 40s, and beyond, setting the stage the stage for gunsmiths like Austin Behlert and shops like Jovino's and Mag-na-port to start chopping S&W 29s, 58s, 25s, and the like back in the 60s, 70s, and 80s. It was the popularity of those conversions that drove the manufacturers to start offering their own versions and, as we all know, they continue to do so today.

One big reason that 3" barreled large framed revolvers have always been popular (other than the obvious concealment considerations) is that the slightly longer barrels, compared to traditional 2"-2.5" snubbies, allow for full length ejector rods for more positive ejection of empty shells. Also, on converted guns, cutting barrels shorter than 3" meant losing the locking lug at the end of the ejector rod and having to replace it with crane ball detents for positive lock up.

So, the popularity of short barreled revolvers has a long history fueled by people's desires for handier, more concealable, and more versatile guns. As is often the case, it was the aftermarket that addressed a need only to have the manufacturers follow suit with their own offerings. Still, you can't always get what you want out of the S&W catalog or from the local gun shop and gunsmiths like Mark Hartshorne, Hamilton Bowen, and Dave Clement, along with shops like Mag-na-port, are still serving the needs of folks that want revolvers built to their specifications.



In addition to factory built snubbies, I own/have owned several revolvers that have been modified to fit particular needs when the factories were not offering anything that filled a particular niche. All of these, at a minimum, have had the barrels shortened.

Shortened 1909 Colt Police Positive Special-



Shortened 1917 S&W-



Behlert S&W 25-2 snub conversion-



Mag-na-port 'Combat Mini' S&W M29-



Krebs Customs S&W M28-2 .45ACP conversion-



Mark Hartshorne S&W M28-2 .41mag conversion with round butt and titanium cylinder-
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Old September 10, 2017, 11:32 PM   #16
BigJimP
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I agree with you Ed......and while I generally favor a 4" barrel in my revolvers( K, L & N frames ) especially in .357 mag....I have picked up a model 66 2 1/2"....& one of the new 627's in a 2 5/8" ( N frame 8 shot )....

I don't carry a revolver much....but I have a couple of IWB Kramer horsehide holsters with a forward FBI tilt - that make them both surprisingly easy to carry ( even the N frame)...
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Old September 11, 2017, 09:45 AM   #17
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I own a S&W Model 19 - 2.5", S&W Model 49 Bodyguard - 2", Colt Detective Special - 2" and a Ruger GP100 - 3". Why? Because I just think snubbies/shorties are ......neat. I also like revolvers with long barrels that start at six inches and keep going. Has nothing to do with practicality. I just like them. The short barreled revolvers appeal to my inner Walter Mitty I suppose.
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Old September 12, 2017, 01:50 PM   #18
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I own a shorty (Bulldog) for CC/House gun and a Sheriff Vaquero in .44 Special just because I thought I might CC it. Probably the first and last shorties I'll ever own. I much prefer my 5 1/2" Single Actions for woods open carry and general shooting.
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Old October 1, 2017, 12:03 PM   #19
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I carry a S&W 442 daily, urban. A Ruger SP101 3" afield. Wife carries 637. My semi autos are a couple 1911s and a Hi Power. I enjoy the simplicity and versatility of revolvers. Most fun is not a shorty but a 6" SW model 19 with Ahernd combat grips. The shorties are great to carry. I've been meaning to hit the pawn shop looking for deals.
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Old October 1, 2017, 12:14 PM   #20
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I read two media articles in the last month that detailed the coming back of revolver popularity with pretty much the same topics.

I still like my Revos, and I am looking forward to being able to pick up a better 9mm revo than the 905 at some point in the future. 3" barrel, 6 shots, good trigger and sights.
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Old October 1, 2017, 12:38 PM   #21
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Short barrels are ok for carry but for shooting nothing beats a long barrel but for me longer than 8 inches is too much.
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Old October 1, 2017, 03:10 PM   #22
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I like both short and long barreled revolvers..... A LOT!

I'll admit that the longer sight radius of a longer barrel is typically easier for most people to shoot accurately, but by no means would I consider short barrels inaccurate.

They simply have their limitations like anything else.

Inaccuracy with a 'shorty' revolver at a reasonable distance can in most all cases be attributed to the 'jerk' on the trigger more than the length of the barrel.

Learn to shoot accurately with a short sight radius and imagine what you'll accomplish with a longer one.
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Old October 1, 2017, 03:20 PM   #23
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Dual post, sorry
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Old October 1, 2017, 03:46 PM   #24
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Took a new shooter out to the range the other day. He mentioned revolvers, so I brought a 2" Taurus 617t, 4" S&W 27, and a 6" S&W 586.

We rented a 4" L 686, as he liked the trigger on the 586 but felt the barrel was unwieldy. He walked out with a brand new 4" 586. Great choice.

He did not like the snub nose.
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Old October 1, 2017, 03:57 PM   #25
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The 3" k frames are going out of sight as far as prices go. Evidently there must be a lot of demand out there. I recently purchased a model 65, and at 525.00 thought I got a real bargain.
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