Crimping /seating problem - anyone else see this?

[Primevalpapa]

I was loading 44mag on the Dillon with Lyman dies. After about 200 perfect rounds, I noticed that the bullets (Laser Cast) were starting to seat deeper than they should. Checked the die and everything was still locked down. Tried a couple more and it was much worse. I pulled the die and removed the seating insert. Lead was building up around the crimp ring indicating that I was kind of sizing bullets on the way in. I cleaned the die and reset up. I ran about 20 rounds with no problem and pulled the die. Definitely slowly building up again. Those bullets are scraping through every time.

I then started to put a micrometer to the bullets. All of the remaining ones seem to hit the .430 to .431 size which is what I expected. Remove the bullet seat and re-clean the die. I can drop a jacketed bullet (.429) all the way through the die if I shake it a little. You can't get a cast or swaged through it without pushing. Interesting - guess I will get the Lee factory crimp die and use this one as a seater only.

Anyone else have this problem?

[SP Shop Foreman]

Did you slug your bore before selecting a sizer? Based on the mic's slug diameter, what size sizing die did you use? Answer that one first please.
BTW........ We just brought in a Lee taper crimp for the 44-40s and it works like nothing else ever has.

Latigo

[rwilson452]

Sounds to me like your not expanding the mouth enough and your scraping lead in the seating process.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

+1 Rwilson hit the nail right on head. Your lead shavings from not expanding enough are gumming up your seating/crimping die.

[SP Shop Foreman]

Somehow I got something different out of his explanation. It needs clarification.

SP

[Unclenick]

Not the expander flare, I would guess, since he can't push a .430 bullet through the die without it hanging up. The crimp is narrower than his bullets. Odd. You will find most lead bullets shave a little in a combination seater/crimper die just because the bullet is still moving down as the crimp closes in. Failure to chamfer the insides of your case mouths will contribute to that. A separate crimper is always best for that reason. I've even seen metal jackets shaved slightly by sharp case mouths and combo seater/crimpers.

[Primevalpapa]

I have reloading experience with a different rig and dies. There is plenty of flare. What surprised me is that I could not easily hand shove the cast bullet through the die past the crimp ring. Usually they will go right through.

It isn't shaving as all these cases have been trimmed and beveled inside/outside. I expect that I got a die that is bit on the tight side of tolerances.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

The crimp is narrower than his bullets.

Not unless he did not get ALL the leading out. If you did clean it THOROUGHLY then this is kind of odd. Why did the first 200 come out fine? Maybe various headstamped brass that did not flare the same? Maybe some brass flared less and shaved lead which caused lead build-up on the crimping portion of the die....Hard to say. If all else fails I would just seat an crimp in 2 steps, as you already stated. Good luck!

[longranger]

I have found that by doing bullet seating and crimping in two separate operations I get much better results including accuracy.

[SP Shop Foreman]

Why would one case flare differently than another with the same die and depth unless the TTL was quite different between types?

Latigo

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

I have found that when flaring cases that some will flare a little more or a little less than other. My guess would be that some brass is work hardened more than others. I could be hallucinating. Also should check your case length just for the heck of it. Shorter cases won't flare as much as longer ones, of course.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

With lead bullets I have had some shave and others not. I can't explain that either. I am just trying to throw out some things to check. The 200 good rounds is telling me that the die is OK.

[SP Shop Foreman]

Clarification please. The die is set, the flare depth is set, the press goes all the way up and tops out. How is the amount of flare changed other than having a shorter or longer TTL'd case in place?

Latigo

[madmo44mag]

Don't mind me, just passing through.

[SP Shop Foreman]

Is that what that was??

Latigo

[SP Shop Foreman]

And I should have read ICH's post a little closer.

Latigo

[PCJim]

In post #7, the OP indicates all the cases were trimmed and chamfered. This eliminates variances in case mouth belling due to differing case lengths.

He may also have received a bad box of bullets. It is very possible that the manufacturer combined bullets from two or more production runs of their product to fill the box. It might be helpful to pull a good sized sample of the remaining bullets and check them for variances. Also, compare those remaining against the bullets in the original 200 lot.

[Primevalpapa]

Like I said in the first post.

I cleaned the die, reassemble, ran twenty rounds through it with no problem, pulled it apart and there was a little lead starting to show under the lip of the crimp ring again. Even though it is working correctly, it is scraping a little every time until it builds enough to be a problem.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

[Unclenick]

That is the small scrape I mentioned that always comes with simultaneous crimping/seating. Your purchase of the Lee die will fix it. CH made a good point that if the die were too small it wouldn't have worked clean, either. I am wondering, when you try to push a bullet through and it hangs up, if it might not be hanging up above the critical seating and crimping area? Or perhaps due to accumulated leading, as CH suggests?

Back before I got my first Dillon in the late 80's, when I still loaded handgun rounds using 3-die sets on my old Lyman Spar-T press, the build-up of shaved lead lube in the seater/crimper was routine. I got in the habit of keeping medical swabs with long wood sticks at hand so I could scrape the die out with the stick followed by some mineral spirits on the swab part.

Even today, a seater will at least build up lube loading lead bullets. Dillon puts a hold through the middle of the seating stem to give it somewhere to go. I like to turn my own on my lathe to custom fit my bullets, and I make that hole about a third of the diameter of the bullet so there is a lot of room for the lube to push up into it. That cuts down on cleaning stops.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

The die is set, the flare depth is set, the press goes all the way up and tops out. How is the amount of flare changed other than having a shorter or longer TTL'd case in place?

Spring back. It happens to all brass to a certain degree when it is sized/flared. Tends to happen more with work hardened brass.