When is it okay to try and buy a gun someone is selling at a gun store?

[tricky9914]

Hey guys, I am new here. I have been lurking for a while and decided to join and start my membership off with this questions - just looking for public opinion.

I work in a gun store and we deal alot in used guns. We have people in and out all the time to sell us guns. With that, we get alot of "flies on the wall" that seem to hang around for people to bring in stuff in hopes of catching a good deal if we don't buy the gun. So:

If you are standing in a gun store, and another person comes in to sell a gun to the store, and it is a gun you really would like to have, when is the appropriate time to make an offer? I know most would say definitely not to make an offer while the dealer and customer are negotiating... What if the customer says they need time to think about the offer and he/she might be back later to complete the sale or trade? Is it okay to chase them out the door and make a better offer (outbidding the gun store)?

Just looking to get an idea on what others think. Us guys at the shop chit-chat about when it is and when it isnt appropriate to try and make a deal with the gun store's customer, but I would like to get a "general public" opinion as well - this is not a topic I see discussed on alot of other forums.

[Kevin Rohrer]

After I have had an NCIC run to make sure the gun in not stolen.

[buck460XVR]

IMHO, the time to step up is once the dealer and the gun owner are done negotiating and the gun owner leaves the store. Doesn't really matter if the owner tells the dealer "he has to think about it". If you offer the owner more than the store, after the store has given it's best offer, IMHO, it's not being a jerk or taking advantage. The gun owner still has the final say.

A while back I was in my LGS negotiating with the dealer over buying a gun he had, when another guy who was there looking at something else stepped up and told the dealer he would give him more than I was offering. The dealer stood by his word and told the other guy "no dice" unless I walked away. Some folks are cads, some have integrity.

As far as the gun being stolen, this is a chance we all take when buying a gun FTF from a stranger.

[tricky9914]

I guess thats the dividing issue and why I am asking the question. I would understand if the gun store offered $300 for a gun, and the customer said "I will take no less than $400" and they shake hands knowing a deal wont be had and part ways - that I would think is clear that the store and customer wont be doing business and its okay to step in. Alternatively, if the customer thinks about it and says "I may be back later" at least in this scenario, the gun store still has a chance of getting the gun. After-all, if it weren't for the facility paid for and provided by the gun store owner, the other private customer would never have any idea that gun existed and by following the customer out and outbidding the gun store, now the store has 0 chance of ending up with the gun.

Also, do you think it is okay for the interested customer to "ooh and aww" over the gun and drop hints like "man I would love that gun" or "man I have been looking for one of those" while the deal is in progress?

Esentially, the exact scenario was like stated above: customer comes in to sell gun while other customer is there. Other customer sees gun and starts oogling all over it saying things like "man I would love that gun" or "I have been looking for one of those". Stands about two feet away while other customer and store owner are talking. Store owner makes offer that the customer contemplates (after offer is made, other customer says "wow" as if surpirsed with our offer). Customer thinks it over and says he will take the gun down the road to see if out competitor could do better and if not he'd be back (I think by competitor, he meant the guy standing behind him . Oh course they both head for the door at the same time and make a deal in the parking lot. Now, the guys at the shop were torn on weather or not the second customer stepped over any boundaries. Also, sort of, in general, when is it okay to interject?

Thanks for any thoughts!

[zipspyder]

Once the seller and dealer can't come to terms or the seller wants to think about it and walks. No need to leave the store at that point, just make sure you are out of earshot of the dealer is all. If the dealer could offer more he should have before the seller walked away. I understand both sides but ultimately the seller wants to get the best price and it's nothing personal.

[kenny53]

If in the store I would say nothing. Outside the store I may offer something.
Two different times, two different Pawn shops.

First one I walked into the shop when a young man came in with a brand new Marlin model 60. The kid seemed like he was high and probably wanted money for his next fix. The gun was offered to the shop owner for $35. Then the kid saw me and asked if I would pay more. I told him "you are making your deal". and watched him sell his gun.

Second was outside a shop. Saw a guy get out of his truck with a shotgun. Asked him if he was selling it, his was. I was in the pawn shops parking lot so I told him "see what they will offer you first, if they don't buy it maybe I will"
Shop didn't want it and I drove away with an $80 shotgun.
So I guess if I am on a store's property I will not interfere with their business.

[JohnKSa]

Inside the store I wouldn't say anything until it was clear that the store and the seller weren't going to make a deal. By clear, I mean that both sides have stated plainly that a deal isn't going to happen.

Outside the store is outside the store and I would say you're free to make an offer any time. However, if you hang around outside the store buying guns that people are trying to bring in, expect the store to eventually complain. I'm talking about one time opportunities, not trying to make it into a pastime. Even outside the store, the most polite option would be to wait until the seller was leaving rather than intercepting a seller on the way in.

Following someone out if you know that they are still considering a sale to the store is poor form.

Getting in the middle of someone else's deal is rude, to say the least. The guy you described who interfered by obviously admiring the gun with an eye to buy while the deal was in progress was a jerk, and if I were the gun store owner I would ask him to leave and tell him he was not welcome in the store any longer. Tell him that he should go make his deal and then never come back. Add that if he wants to buy guns from the public at a storefront, he needs to get his own storefront and pay his own rent and utilities.

If he wanted that gun, the proper thing to do would be to wait until the deal was made and then make an offer to buy it from the store.

[tricky9914]

In the first scenario I think you did the right thing. In the second I am not so sure.

If the gun store never paid for advertising to bring that guy to their lot, if they never paid for their facility to even have a lot and a store, then you and that seller would never know the other existed. By saying "see what they offer first and if you don't like their deal come talk to me", what that would tell me as a seller is "after they make you an offer come to me and tell me what it is and I may offer more". That puts you in a bidding and purchasing position before the store's customer even enters the store, and the store paid for that customer to be there. I think that is interjecting on their business. To you it is a good deal on a shotgun, to the gun store it means keeping their lights on and putting food on the table.

Now I know in your scenario the gun store didnt want the shotgun, but what if they DID make him an offer and he came to you before selling it to them to see if you would do better? I am not trying to point fingers, I guess when you work behind the counter, you see if differently. If the store owner can't get used guns from customers because others interject, then he would soon have no reason to keep us around. Keep in mind, private buyers will always offer more - the gun store needs room in the gun to make money. Just saying - I mean its just my opinion, that's all, and that's the reason I'm asking this question, I think its a good topic of conversation. Thanks for replying!

[TailGator]

What if the customer says they need time to think about the offer and he/she might be back later to complete the sale or trade?

That customer is saying that you have not offered him what he expected and that he is going to look for someone who offers him a better price. You have the opportunity to increase your bid just then if you want to put the gun on your shelf. If you don't, the seller has been honest with you about this intentions, and if a better price comes from another shop or from a private buyer, the shop needs to respect that they had their chance.

I personally think it is a little crass for people to do that in your shop, and for people to hang around with that intention. If someone happens to be there and says to the person trying to sell the gun, "Mind if I talk to you outside?" I don't think you should feel burned.

In the other scenario you drew in a later post, in which one customer inserted himself into a conversation between another customer and shop personnel, the prospective buyer is pretty overtly interfering with your business and the way the shop works. Rude and completely out of line, IMO.

[tricky9914]

I get what you mean about the offer and the "ill think about it" response... I guess my thought is, usually with about 30-40% certainty, the customer will come back because our competitor gun stores wont offer more or don't want it. In this case, when the customer follows them outside, we now have 0% chance the customer will come back, and is is 100% thanks to the store being there and paid for by the owner, that the second customer even knew that gun was there (the two customers would likely have never crossed paths if not for the store being there). So that's the ethical question then I guess. I mean I see both sides which is why its an interesting topic of conversation - just being devil's advocate.

[JohnKSa]

I agree that if the customer doesn't say he's not selling to the store, if he makes some kind of remark like he's still thinking about it, he might be back, he's going to sleep on it, etc. that the deal is still in progress and interfering at that point would be poor form.

Clearly a gun store's requirement to make money will force them to buy at wholesale or below, while customers are not constrained in the same way.

[fredvon4]

I guess a lot has to do with several things
Reputation of the gun store... do they always low ball or have a great sense of market value
Your personal rep at the store...do you always pay retail or try desperately to get every discount possible

I have been is a position both selling and buying in various stores

One anecdotal story

If this had happened in a store I was a regular, and had a personal rep, I would have behaved different...This is important to say again...my poersonal rep is IMPORTANT

In a, near me, LGS, Not my store, a gent comes in to trade or sell a S&W model 29 44 Mag in display case with base revolver fitted with the 6" barrel and three never used barrels... 8.75"/ 5"/ 3" or something like that

These sold a lot in the 70s ~80s after the Dirty harry movie for $600+/-

The Model 29 44 mag weapon it self is sold these days for $900~$1200

I once had a 8 3/4 barrel 44 Mag Model 29 that a fellow soldier just had to have and offered me the bucks needed to make me part with a Fav hand gun...I regretted being greedy and selling as I did love the gun

So here is a guy with-- in my mind ---a MUST HAVE collectors display of the "Do you Feel Lucky Today" piece

The store owner low balls him a LOT...my ears park up... cash or trade for $500
The guy sez ----is that the best you can do?...."yep" sez the owner

Not containing my self ---I offer out loud...I will give you $100 more ..all eyes on me

Seller is conflicted...owner is pissed...offers $400 over initial offer we are now at $900 bidding on a in the door weapon

I stood ground but feeling a very bad mojo, bad karma place and said "I will give you $100 over what ever you get offered in the next 24 hrs..."


Now I have sellers attention and store owner is visibly thinking of kicking my butt...really steamed
But he got the idea I was jazzed to have it and gave me the evil eye and nodded

That was years ago and it took a while but he and I are friend and seller customer now... BUT for a a decade I was Person no gratta in his store

I do regret...and the reason we are friends... not allowing the seller owner low ball to be done and then brow beat the hell out of the new owner for a screaming good deal on the gun cuz I knew what he paid

[tricky9914]

Really?

[JohnKSa]

...a S&W model 29 44 Mag in display case with base revolver fitted with the 6" barrel and three never used barrels... 8.75"/ 5"/ 3" or something like that

Maybe a Dan Wesson? The only S&W revolver I'm aware of with interchangeable barrels was one that was made as a custom job for gunwriter Dean Grennell. And, as I recall, it was in .357Mag, not .44Mag.

...BUT for a a decade I was Person no gratta in his store...

And with very good reason. The guy makes his living, at least in part, by buying guns cheap and selling them for more than he paid. Imagine someone going to where you work and telling your boss, right in front of you, that he would do your job for less, and getting into a bidding war with you.

[tricky9914]

Yea, I am surprised he let you get in a bidding war with him. At our store, if we are ever unfortunate to have any attempt that, we would ask the customer to leave immediately, and if they refused, the police would be called.

[Bill DeShivs]

The classy thing to do is tell both the seller, and the dealer that you would be interested in buying the gun if they can come to terms. Seller gets his money, dealer makes a small quick profit, and you get the gun.

BTW- individuals and dealers have no way of running a NCIC check.

[jmr40]

I actually did this once in a Pawn shop. A guy had already pawned a Remington 700 for $100. While I was looking around the gun owner came in wanting to borrow another $100 on the gun. The store owner declined. Then he asked if the shop would buy the gun for $200 and give him $100. Store owner declined this offer as well. Guy was desperate and needed rent money NOW.

I spoke up and asked both parties if I could pay off the pawn, give the other guy $100 and take the gun. Both were agreeable. I gave the guy I think $110 to get his gun out of pawn. We walked into the parking lot and I gave him another $100 and took the rifle. No worries about a stolen gun because all pawned guns here must have numbers run and the pawn shop can't sell or return them for 30 days.

This was on a Friday afternoon. I kept the scope, sling, and soft case; sold the rifle by 11AM the next morning at a gun show for $350. Only 270 I've ever owned and I kept it 16 hours.

[HiBC]

Its been years ago,I went to a garage sale. I picked up an Ithaca 37 8 shot LAPD for $100 in great condition.
I called local law enforcement ,told them I paid what may have been a"too good to be true" price,and told them I did not want to be holding a stolen gun.
The LEO was instantly able to run the SN,he said the gun was not stolen,and he thanked me for checking it out.

I have a very good relationship with my LGS. I keep completely out of his business with his customers. I would not chase the deal outside.

One ethical way to approach the issue would be to privately hand the gun shop owner a business card.Tell him you are interested ,and suggest that if he passes on the deal,he refer the seller to you.Or,as has been mentioned,if the LGS owner can turn the gun immediately without investing capital,he may take a minimal commission.
None of this should be visible to the customer.

[Nathan]

I don't do this because there are far too many guns for sale where I don't have to hang around like this. That said this is a good way to get a deal or get scammed.

Two kinds of people are selling guns back to the store. People who are newbs, or can afford to lose money for other reasons. Also, there are experienced gun owners with poor scruples who sell broke guns to avoid repair work or a total loss.

Be a bit careful. The inexperienced folks should be glad when someone steps in. Obviously, this can only be done after contact is broken and should be done outside. It is poor manners to do business in another person's business. Even worse to interrupt a deal, in any way. Regardless of what is said, negotiations stop when 2 parties walk away. Even if they walk away on, "I forgot my ID in the truck.", unless the gun stays behind.

[444]

Years ago, I used to hang out in a particular gun shop in Las Vegas. It was common for customers to come into the store and buy a gun after they won some money. Then they would come back the next day and try to sell it back because they lost everything they had won and then some.

One day a guy walked in with a 2" barreled Python that he had bought the previous day. He said he wanted something like $200 for it and the store told him no. I stepped up and said I would give him $200 for it, and I got chewed out.

Later on, the guy at the counter told me that if I wanted to buy a gun that they didn't want, to follow the guy out into the parking lot and tell the guy to meet you around the corner off of our property. According to him, it wasn't about the ethics of the whole thing: they considered it a legal issue. They didn't want gun sales going on, in their store, where no paperwork was being done on the gun. They said, if I did a private party transaction outside the store, they didn't care. But inside the store it was forbidden.

[Danoobie]

I don't see a lot of pawn shops or LGSs around here making reasonable
offers on guns. It's all very low ball. I understand they have to make a
profit, but it's almost like a bragging point to hammer the seller as hard
as possible, sort of like the 44 story in post #12.(Thank you, fredvon4)

AFAIAC, if the seller walks away, or I can get him to leave the store, without
being too obvious, the store had a chance to offer fair value, and blew it.
At that point, the seller gets more than he would have, and I get a reasonable
discount over full retail, which any shop owner is going to jack it to, no matter
how bad they screwed the seller, in the first place.

[tony pasley]

I have bought 2 guns after the shop owner and seller could not deal. I ask permission to make an offer then went outside and made the deal. The first one went back into the store and bought the rifle he was interested in. The second I got a very good deal on a Remington Rand issued 1911a1

[FrankenMauser]

Depends on the situation.
Two years ago, I sold a few things to my preferred LGS. That's the only time in recent memory, that I've been involved in one of those situations.

In the process of negotiations, we got hung up on one handgun and its accessories. Joe, the owner, didn't want to pay extra for the spare parts, accessories, or original box. I was, literally, only asking for $15 more for $75 worth of parts, but we were stuck.

The store's resident slob wrestled himself off of his bar stool and came over. (A carry-over from previous ownership, when Joe was an employee of the former pawn shop.)
Through a mouth full of popcorn he squeezed out, "I, uh. I'll give you [$25 more]."
I replied that the offer was for Joe, and that we were still trying to find a way to work it out.
"Umm... [$50 more] if it's off the books."
Joe and I both looked at him with the same expression: "Why does it have to be 'off the books'?"

I responded that any offer made would involve the pistol being turned over to Joe, for at least the transfer, and he waddled back to his stool.

Joe and I came to an agreement, and I walked out the door.
I haven't seen the Mr. Slob since.

[drobs]

Shop I part timed at had a formula for buying guns off of customers coming in off the street.

If it was a commonly available gun that can be bought new from a distributor, the offer was 25% less than wholesale. Older guns would depend on if the owner wanted them or not, condition, blue book value, etc. The goal of the shop was to at least make $100 on the sale of most guns.

However, the 1st question asked by the shop to the customer selling the gun was - "How much are you looking for?"


I frequented the shop as younger guy and later worked there. I bought a 45acp 1917 S&W DA Revolver for $450 and about a year later sold it back to the shop for $500. The owner collected them and didn't realize this was one he sold me previously.

[FrankenMauser]

However, the 1st question asked by the shop to the customer selling the gun was - "How much are you looking for?"

A smart customer always makes the first move.

Never let the shop take control of negotiations.