Armed Citizen: Oklahoma Pharmacist Defends Employees from Robbers

[DeltaB]

Thats important! Got a link?

KTOK radio reported it just an hour or so ago...I'll keep everyone posted as soon as I see something in print...

[Playboypenguin]

KTOK radio reported it just an hour or so ago...I'll keep everyone posted as soon as I see something in print...

That is not surprising at all. He so far fits into the very profile I described earlier for drug addicted medical professionals.

[hogdogs]

Several links from this one... including records release article.
http://www.examiner.com/Subject-Jerome_Ersland.html
Brent

[Playboypenguin]

I wonder if there has been any evidence of his "surgeries" and the justification for them.

[Brian Pfleuger]

That is not surprising at all. He so far fits into the very profile I described earlier for drug addicted medical professionals.

Or a person who lies so pathologically that they believe, in fact live, their own lies. I've known people like that before. Everything they say, to everyone they speak to, is a lie and they believe it. Ironically, usually they're the only ones who do.

[DeltaB]

Ersland, 57, has described himself as a disabled Gulf War veteran, but The Oklahoman has learned he left the U.S. Army before the war began.

Ersland left active duty with the Army in February 1989, according to military records. That is more than a year before the first Gulf War began.

Ersland admitted last week he had misrepresented his military service.

courtesy of the Oklahoman

I hate to say "I told you so" but like I said, I don't believe a single word that comes from the man's mouth... I don't believe him when he said he thought he was in imminent danger when he shot Parker, in fact his actions and body language show exactly the opposite, and I don't believe he thought that Parker was going for anything, and it will more than likely be found what investigators and the DA assert is true...and I guess that would preclude him claiming PTSD from the Gulf War as well....

[Crosshair]

He aint the first one to "exaggerate" his military service. I have several uncles who stretch the truth about their military service and other things. I only "know" one uncle who doesn't and that's only because his name is on the Vietnam Memorial.

Everyone has done something similar to a varying degree. Not trying to make excuses for him, just pointing that you. It's not like he was trying to steal VA benefits, just sound "cooler" to the people around the office.

A dumb question. It has probably been answered, but I can't find it.

1. How lethal was the first shot to the head? (The unquestionably justified shot.) Was that wound survivable or was his brain already dead and his body didn't realize it yet?

2. Were the other shots, the ones that may or may not have been justified, lethal by themselves or were they lethal in combination with his head wound?

Thanks.

[OuTcAsT]

That is not surprising at all. He so far fits into the very profile I described earlier for drug addicted medical professionals.

I wonder if there has been any evidence of his "surgeries" and the justification for them.

It would not surprise me to find that they are likely looking into his medical history both past, and present.

The "cripple" aspect could well prove to be a ruse.

This guy is a house of cards.....

[DeltaB]

1. How lethal was the first shot to the head? (The unquestionably justified shot.) Was that wound survivable or was his brain already dead and his body didn't realize it yet?

2. Were the other shots, the ones that may or may not have been justified, lethal by themselves or were they lethal in combination with his head wound?

Not trying to make excuses for him, just pointing that you. It's not like he was trying to steal VA benefits

The first shot hit Parker and split the bullet, and the smaller portion entered the cranium. It was not fatal. There is no evidense of shots fired by the 14 year old (his weapon had no bullets) Parker was never armed.

It is reported that Ersland emptied the revolver he was carrying outside of the pharmacy in efforts to hit the 14 year old armed suspect. Had he hit the 14 year old, it may have been justifed by Oklahoma Law, but not as far as Castle Defense is concerned.

The fatal wounds (as indicated by the ME) were the shots fired into Parkers torso. He was still alive prior to the fatal shots and could have recovered from his head wound. (again as asserted by the ME)

You are correct, he's not trying to steal VA benefits, he's lying to cover a cold blooded murder.....

[brair]

Too bad the pharmacist's name isn't Clinton.Then he could just say he 'misremembered' or his personal definitiion of killing does not include shooting someone in the stomach.( think sniper fire and oral sex)

He not only would be instantly forgiven and but maybe even get to run for president.

And let's not forget that old but still useful phrase from president R.'I have no memory of that.'It served him well too!!

Just kidding but it sure will be interesting to find out how this plays out.

Regards,
brair

[Tucker 1371]

it is coming out that he is not, in fact, a Gulf War veteran, and his claim of being injured in the Gulf War to be as fictitious as his being fired upon 15 times......go figure...

Wow... just my prediction but this guy's gonna fry unless Johnnie Cochran comes back to life and take's his case.

[Kmar40]

inclusive of the news events preceding the trial where Ersland made statements.

Not exactly.

Hearsay, it's definitions (somethings are excluded definitionally as "not hearsay") and its exceptions take up about 1/2 of a law school evidence class. However, the opponent party's statements are admissible. So anything he said to the media and anyone else can be admitted (with the exception of certain privileges, such as atty/client, physician, husband/wife, priest/penitent and a few others in some states).

[Lost Sheep]

I have read the charging document (link http://s3.amazonaws.com/content.news...armdoc0001.pdf)
or if the link does not work, past this into your web browser
s3.amazonaws.com/content.newsok.com/documents/pharmdoc0001.pdf
or look in the posts on page 7 of this thread. The D.A. (Prater) has charged only Murder in the First Degree (as I read it, unless it has been amended since filing).

It is my understanding that if a prosecutor charges a defendant with a crime, the Jury can find guilty or not guilty.

1 On that charge and that charge only

2 On that charge or the jury can opt for lesser charges.

If Oklahoma allows only option 1), and the OK D.A. charges First Degree Murder only and if the jury is not inclined for the full boat, they have to let him go.

If Oklahoma allows option 2) the jury has the option of Second Degree or Third Degree, making the likelihood of a guilty verdict on the lesser charge more likely.

Am I right in my logic? Which way does Oklahoma do it, Option 1 or Option 2 or another option I have not though of?

It is a way of "gaming" the system (to increase or decrease likelihood of conviction) or to encourage a plea bargain.

Does anyone know how Oklahoma does it?

Lost Sheep

[Lost Sheep]

It seems obvious that Ersland (should have) shot with the intention of hitting the robber with the gun. He missed, and hit the other one.

Does it matter at all?

Lost Sheep

[DeltaB]

The D.A. (Prater) has charged only Murder in the First Degree (as I read it, unless it has been amended since filing).

R.L.1910, § 2312.
§21-701.7. Murder in the first degree
C. A person commits murder in the first degree when the death of a child results from the willful or malicious injuring, torturing, maiming or using of unreasonable force by said person or who shall willfully cause, procure or permit any of said acts to be done upon the child pursuant to Section 7115 of Title 10 of the Oklahoma Statutes. It is sufficient for the crime of murder in the first degree that the person either willfully tortured or used unreasonable force upon the child or maliciously injured or maimed the child.

I don't think anyone argues that Ersland used "reasonable force" initally, what comes into play is the use of "unreasonable force" even deadly force on an incapacitated suspect. Under Oklahoma law, no premeditation is required in the death of a minor, all that is required is that he prove that Erlsand used unreasonable force.

§21-701.9. Punishment for murder.
A. A person who is convicted of or pleads guilty or nolo contendere to murder in the first degree shall be punished by death, by imprisonment for life without parole or by imprisonment for life. A person who is convicted of or pleads guilty or nolo contendere to murder in the first degree, as described in subsection E of Section 701.7 of this title, shall not be entitled to or afforded the benefit of deferment of the sentence.

§21-701.10. Sentencing
A. Upon conviction or adjudication of guilt of a defendant of murder in the first degree, the court shall conduct a separate sentencing proceeding to determine whether the defendant should be sentenced to death, life imprisonment without parole or life imprisonment. The proceeding shall be conducted by the trial judge before the same trial jury as soon as practicable without presentence investigation.
B. If the trial jury has been waived by the defendant and the state, or if the defendant pleaded guilty or nolo contendere, the sentencing proceeding shall be conducted before the court.
C. In the sentencing proceeding, evidence may be presented as to any mitigating circumstances or as to any of the aggravating circumstances enumerated in Section 701.7 et seq. of this title. Only such evidence in aggravation as the state has made known to the defendant prior to his trial shall be admissible. In addition, the state may introduce evidence about the victim and about the impact of the murder on the family of the victim.
D. This section shall not be construed to authorize the introduction of any evidence secured in violation of the Constitutions of the United States or of the State of Oklahoma. The state and the defendant or his counsel shall be permitted to present argument for or against sentence of death.

[Double Naught Spy]

Does this make any difference?
It seems obvious that Ersland (should have) shot with the intention of hitting the robber with the gun. He missed, and hit the other one.

Does it matter at all?

Lost Sheep

Nope. They were both participants in an armed robbery in which Ersland was defending himself against a lethal threat(s). As such, they were both subject to suffering his efforts at self defense.

While Ersland "should have" shot the suspect with the gun, if you watch the video closely, the one with the gun was not a viable target for Ersland by the time he was able to get to cover and start firing. So he shot the threat that posed the greatest immediate known risk to himself and his employees, the one that he could see, which was Parker.

I sincerely doubt he missed one suspect and hit Parker in the head. They were many feet apart when Parker was struck by that first round.

Up until that point, Ersland did well.

[Hornett]

It was not fatal. There is no evidense of shots fired by the 14 year old (his weapon had no bullets)

I hadn't heard that yet.
How do we know the 14 year olds gun had no bullets?
Was he caught?

(apologies in advance if this is old news since I haven't read all the references yet.)

[hogdogs]

Hornett, I had not heard of a capture. He possibly dropped his weapon.
Brent

[PT111]

While we are all debating everything on this I thought it might be a good time to repost the original report of the incident so we can be reminded of what really happened.

http://www.examiner.com/x-5919-Norfo...s-of-his-staff

Oklahoma pharmacist kills armed robber, saves the lives of his staff

A little before 6:00 p.m., last Tuesday, two armed men rushed into the Reliable Discount Pharmacy in Oklahoma City, and demanded money and drugs. The store had been robbed two years earlier, a robbery in which the store’s employees had been forced into a back room and severely beaten.

However, this time the store had a security system with doors armed with magnetic locks, which could only be opened from the inside. The masked-men apparently knew this and waited for someone to exit, at which time they pushed a board in front of the closing door and rushed into the pharmacy.

Once inside, they demanded all of the cash and narcotics, two female technicians ran into the back room. But the pharmacist, Jerome Ersland who wears a large back brace, and is still recovering from recent surgery, could not run. But he could defend himself.

The robbers began shooting at him, with one bullet grazing him on the arm, he said he heard another round whiz past his ear.

Ersland recalled: "All of a sudden, they started shooting. They were attempting to kill me, but they didn’t know I had a gun. They said, ‘You’re gonna die.’ That’s when one of them shot at me, and that’s when he got my hand.”

Ersland grabbed the semi-automatic Kel-Tec .380 in his pocket.

"And that’s when I started defending myself,” he said. "The first shot got him in the head, and that slowed him down so I could get my other gun.”

Ersland also kept a much larger pistol in a nearby drawer, which he was able to retrieve, a Taurus Judge revolver. At that point, the second robber took off. However, the other robber was now getting up off of the floor, despite the head wound.

Ersland emptied his clip into the chest of the wounded robber, who turned out to be 16-year-old Antwun Parker.

"I went after the other guy, but he was real fast and I’m crippled,” said Ersland. Once outside, he saw a third black male sitting in a car with what appeared to be a shotgun.

Ersland said: "I pulled out my ‘Judge’ and pointed it right between his eyes and he floored it.”

Police arrested the man in the car which turned out to be stolen, after he crashed it a few blocks away. The other robber is still at large, he is described as a black male in his 20s, 5 feet, 7 inches tall, and weighing 175 pounds. The suspect was last seen wearing a red shirt and dark pants.

Ersland went back into the store and found his two technicians safe but shaken.

Ersland said: "I asked if the girls were all right, and they were in the back crying. I was glad to know they were alive. We were lucky and I’m glad I defended us, because I feel that a person has a right to defend themselves at their home or at their work. People deserve to be safe and not be afraid of people that want to take money when they don’t work for it.”

As if the attempted robbery was not enough, an angry black mob gathered outside the pharmacy later that night, shouting and accusing Ersland of being a racist because he had killed the teenaged thug, who was black.

"I just regret anybody would get killed. But if I wouldn’t have been here, there would have been three people killed — the other pharmacist and the two techs.”

"I was able to return fire and protect the girls’ lives. God was helping me.”

[Playboypenguin]

Originally Posted by PT111

While we are all debating everything on this I thought it might be a good time to repost the original report of the incident so we can be reminded of what really happened.

Does it not bother you that almost none of that actually happened the way he said it did and that he has been looking more and more like an unstable person and habitual liar with drug abuse issues as time has gone on? You just going to stick your fingers in your ears, close your eyes, and pretend he is some type of hero simply because you want to believe that regardless of the evidence? What would motivate you to do that?

[hogdogs]

reminded of what really happened

I call poo-poo on a shoe!:barf:
The story begins to be an untruth ie:BALDFACED LIE right after this part...

A little before 6:00 p.m., last Tuesday, two armed men rushed into the Reliable Discount Pharmacy in Oklahoma City, and demanded money and drugs.

Statements made by ersland begin right after this part too... Heck even the getaway story is false... It was 2 guys, ersland was gone runnin (not a cripple) after BG#1 when BG's #3 and4 drove off after seein' the shot BG#1 layin' on the floor.
Brent

[Double Naught Spy]

While we are all debating everything on this I thought it might be a good time to repost the original report of the incident so we can be reminded of what really happened.

Reposting the original news account is a waste of space. As for it being what really happened, did you bother watching the videos? Did you not hear the DA's statements? Ersland's statements are BOOOOOOGUS!

[Hornett]

hogdogs: If he dropped it I would have expected Ersland to pick it up.

PT111:
I think the whole original report is in question here.
Ersland is obviously not telling the facts as they happened.
For example, From camera angle 3, the first handgun he uses is clearly not a P3AT. It's the judge. And he gets it out from under the counter not his pocket.
It goes even further downhill from there.

[DeltaB]

I hadn't heard that yet. How do we know the 14 year olds gun had no bullets? Was he caught?

In the testimony of investigators, "Morrison gave (the 2 minors) clothes to wear during the robbery. (the 14 year old) advised that he was given a gun that did not have bullets in it, but he wasn't sure what kind of gun it was. (the 14 year old) advised he was not familiar with guns and he only knew the gun had a slide on the top and the magazine was taped to the gun"

Taken directly from investigators testimony entered into court documents concerning the 14 year old's testimony to them.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/griff...20mitchell.pdf

The weapon was actually recovered in the back of one of the hondas.

[hogdogs]

not enuff fact for my post
Brent