Met a Vietnam "sniper" - looking for facts - Page 3

Winchester_73 · September 27, 2012, 03:16 PM

Wow what an interesting thread I started. I figured when I asked about Vietnam + sniping, a good thread would develop.

As far as this guy, I acknowledge it could be true. However, I looked at it this way: there are sure a lot of non-standard things about his story:

I initially only asked if he made it to Vietnam (I saw he was old enough) and he says "ya, I was a sniper". From a physical stand point, he was short and had some curvature of his spine, and he had COPD, so he was on oxygen. I took it initially as he was trying to compensate for his disability / poor health or trying to impress me, who is younger than him. It was just my suspicion. I have a hard time believing actual snipers would mention it so casually and so readily as he did.

Also consider:

Non standard main arm. He endorsed that he never had a scope, but was a sniper. No mention of any bolt action rifle. Non standard side arm - misc 9mm pistol. While possible, the whole thing was just non standard to me. Of course, I acknowledge the "possibility" of his story and so I started this thread.

For those who believed him, understand at a VA hospital, everyone saw combat, won medals, saved their best friend, and was the best shot of their platoon, or company, etc. There are some who say "I stayed stateside" but many others who want others to be impressed by what they did or saw, and so they stretch the truth or outright lie. It happens all the time. Even in the gun world, I've met many supposed gun collectors who I could tell were full of it after 5 min. People who actually have great collections don't brag to strangers unless they're an idiot. The people who brag the most are often those who feel the most inadequate about themselves. Initially, I looked at this supposed Vietnam sniper as one of those guys, but I was curious enough to post this thread. I am much more a WWII historian than any other war or conflict. Vietnam is not an area I am very well versed in.

moxie · September 27, 2012, 03:54 PM

We actually pulled out of Vietnam on March 29, 1973. I was there. All that was left after that were the Marine guards at the embassy who left in '75.

I did see a few Hi-Powers in Vietnam. Also some S&W Model 39s that were popular at the time. 9mm ammo was definitely scarce. Had a Swedish K but let it go due to shortage of 9mm.

Old Grump · September 27, 2012, 07:35 PM

All I know is my two oldest friends, my brother my cousin and myself don't talk about on line service, just the things around it and of people we knew and loved or knew and despised. All of us except my brother are all boogered up with various ailments, some of which can be traced back to our service and some just from old age. Only my younger brother is still working, at 66 he is drawing SS and driving long haul loads all over the country because he can't afford to stay home. You do not hear war stories from me and unless you drug me or get me drunk, (a good trick since I quit drinking 50+ years ago) you never will.

My brother wears his Viet Nam veterans hat and he is always being approached by guys at bus stops because of it. Some thank him, some buy him a meal, but about half have to tell him about their time in country. Some of them are obviously 20 years to young. A huge number of them claim to have been snipers or CIA operatives and then he calls me and puts them on the line with me. Now the fun begins. So yeah my skepticism level is at a high because it's so easy to pull them off their little white horse and strip their play armor off. Those that really were there are also easy to identify. I prefer talking to them because we don't tell war stories to each other. It's more about places we both knew or at least heard of, people we knew in common or had heard about. Of course the obligatory medical resume, we all share that, its an old codger thing.

lefteye · September 27, 2012, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Those that really were there are also easy to identify. I prefer talking to them because we don't tell war stories to each other. It's more about places we both knew or at least heard of, people we knew in common or had heard about. Of course the obligatory medical resume, we all share that, its an old codger thing.

My closest hunting buddy was on a Navy ship well off shore from the Rung Sat Special Zone (RSSZ) SE of Saigon where most of my less fun days were spent. We don't talk about it much . . . instead we focus on Whitetail hunting . . . which is OK.

Chuckusaret · September 27, 2012, 11:44 PM

Quote:

FloridaVeteran
Senior Member

Kraig - I learn something new every day - never knew that you could have different DD-214s - I have only one, plus a different "discharge" certidicate or something like that. Did your wife get out and then back in, twice?

You comment got my attention and i had to check mine. I got a discharge and a DD-214 each and every time I reenlisted. I have five of each, after 3 yrs, 9 yrs, 15 yrs, 21 years and on retirement at 24 yrs. yes, and each and every one of them had at least one mistake on it.

Art Eatman · September 28, 2012, 07:47 AM

Having spent some time among the geriatrics at an American Legion post, I just figure on letting the Olde Pharts rattle on. No point in worrying about it. "That might not be the way it was, but it's the way it should have been."

I just nod and say, "Uh-huh, yeah..." and have another beer. It's not like he's some 40-year-old on the hustle. Let him feel good in his made-up memories; he won't be around much longer.

Me? I'm 78. I was mostly a REMF, sixty years ago...

Chuckusaret · September 28, 2012, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Having spent some time among the geriatrics at an American Legion post, I just figure on letting the Olde Pharts rattle on. No point in worrying about it. "That might not be the way it was, but it's the way it should have been."

The Legion is a lot different than the VFW. All members of the VFW must have served in combat and must present a valid DD 214 for membership that shows their Combat Awards, ie the Vietnam Service Ribbon or the Iraq Freedom Ribbon and the form is checked for validity, not so for the Legion. If you tell a war story at my VFW it had better be close to fact because nine chances out of ten some other member that is present was there also. I would guess my age makes me an Olde Phart. LOL

SIGSHR · September 28, 2012, 04:48 PM

It was drummed into my head in BCT that you make sure all orders, records, etc. pertaining to you are correct, make sure your name is spelled correctly, rank and service number are correct, etc. Like making sure a hand receipt is filled out correctly and some isn't trying to pull a fast one.
I've noted that so many of these "professional" veterans are usually sad looking ones, all scruffy and ill kempt, with watery eyes that have seen the bottom of too many shot glasses, seeking sympathy for a hard life with tales of woe. And the mark of a poseur is that they always served in some elite unit, went on hazardous behind the lines missions, worked for some "hush-hush" organization, and their record are sealed by "The Agency." And are an incredible crack shot.

geetarman · September 28, 2012, 08:19 PM

You find them in all walks of life and in all professions.

I was playing an Easter service a number of years ago and it just happened I was playing a Fender guitar.

As I was packing my gear to leave, a guy walked up and said that he used to be the lead guitar player for Waylon Jennings.

Waylon used to live in Chandler when he was not on the road.

I just let the guy talk.

I am sure most of the really big music stars had a lot of lead musicians they never heard of.

A guy I know who does play a pretty mean bass also claimed to be a bass player for Gordon Lightfoot. Funny thing. . .the Gordon Lightfoot web page lists every song ever recorded by him and credits every musician who ever played on one of his records.

If someone wants to brag about what he has done in the past or puff himself up, I just let it go.

It is not worth getting into an argument. Just roll with it.

The one thing that really does bother me is the act of attributing to oneself acts of valor that were not performed by you or wearing decorations for which you are not entitled.

To me, that is a slap at every service person who served honorably and has kept a low profile.

Success has many fathers and failure is an orphan.

Strafer Gott · September 28, 2012, 08:23 PM

And that's some real solid morning report clerk speak right there.

Art Eatman · September 28, 2012, 11:54 PM

Not much we can add to this that's worthwhile...

September 27, 2012, 03:16 PM	#51
Winchester_73 Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Pittsburgh PA Posts: 2,863	Wow what an interesting thread I started. I figured when I asked about Vietnam + sniping, a good thread would develop. As far as this guy, I acknowledge it could be true. However, I looked at it this way: there are sure a lot of non-standard things about his story: I initially only asked if he made it to Vietnam (I saw he was old enough) and he says "ya, I was a sniper". From a physical stand point, he was short and had some curvature of his spine, and he had COPD, so he was on oxygen. I took it initially as he was trying to compensate for his disability / poor health or trying to impress me, who is younger than him. It was just my suspicion. I have a hard time believing actual snipers would mention it so casually and so readily as he did. Also consider: Non standard main arm. He endorsed that he never had a scope, but was a sniper. No mention of any bolt action rifle. Non standard side arm - misc 9mm pistol. While possible, the whole thing was just non standard to me. Of course, I acknowledge the "possibility" of his story and so I started this thread. For those who believed him, understand at a VA hospital, everyone saw combat, won medals, saved their best friend, and was the best shot of their platoon, or company, etc. There are some who say "I stayed stateside" but many others who want others to be impressed by what they did or saw, and so they stretch the truth or outright lie. It happens all the time. Even in the gun world, I've met many supposed gun collectors who I could tell were full of it after 5 min. People who actually have great collections don't brag to strangers unless they're an idiot. The people who brag the most are often those who feel the most inadequate about themselves. Initially, I looked at this supposed Vietnam sniper as one of those guys, but I was curious enough to post this thread. I am much more a WWII historian than any other war or conflict. Vietnam is not an area I am very well versed in. __________________ Winchester 73, the TFL user that won the west

September 27, 2012, 03:54 PM	#52
moxie Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2006 Location: TX Posts: 513	We actually pulled out of Vietnam on March 29, 1973. I was there. All that was left after that were the Marine guards at the embassy who left in '75. I did see a few Hi-Powers in Vietnam. Also some S&W Model 39s that were popular at the time. 9mm ammo was definitely scarce. Had a Swedish K but let it go due to shortage of 9mm. __________________ If you want to shoot...shoot...don't talk! Tuco USAF Munitions 1969-1992 RVN 1972-1973

September 27, 2012, 07:35 PM	#53
Old Grump Member in memoriam Join Date: April 9, 2009 Location: Blue River Wisconsin, in Posts: 3,144	All I know is my two oldest friends, my brother my cousin and myself don't talk about on line service, just the things around it and of people we knew and loved or knew and despised. All of us except my brother are all boogered up with various ailments, some of which can be traced back to our service and some just from old age. Only my younger brother is still working, at 66 he is drawing SS and driving long haul loads all over the country because he can't afford to stay home. You do not hear war stories from me and unless you drug me or get me drunk, (a good trick since I quit drinking 50+ years ago) you never will. My brother wears his Viet Nam veterans hat and he is always being approached by guys at bus stops because of it. Some thank him, some buy him a meal, but about half have to tell him about their time in country. Some of them are obviously 20 years to young. A huge number of them claim to have been snipers or CIA operatives and then he calls me and puts them on the line with me. Now the fun begins. So yeah my skepticism level is at a high because it's so easy to pull them off their little white horse and strip their play armor off. Those that really were there are also easy to identify. I prefer talking to them because we don't tell war stories to each other. It's more about places we both knew or at least heard of, people we knew in common or had heard about. Of course the obligatory medical resume, we all share that, its an old codger thing. __________________ Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern will, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. --Daniel Webster--

September 28, 2012, 08:19 PM	#59
geetarman Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2009 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,157	You find them in all walks of life and in all professions. I was playing an Easter service a number of years ago and it just happened I was playing a Fender guitar. As I was packing my gear to leave, a guy walked up and said that he used to be the lead guitar player for Waylon Jennings. Waylon used to live in Chandler when he was not on the road. I just let the guy talk. I am sure most of the really big music stars had a lot of lead musicians they never heard of. A guy I know who does play a pretty mean bass also claimed to be a bass player for Gordon Lightfoot. Funny thing. . .the Gordon Lightfoot web page lists every song ever recorded by him and credits every musician who ever played on one of his records. If someone wants to brag about what he has done in the past or puff himself up, I just let it go. It is not worth getting into an argument. Just roll with it. The one thing that really does bother me is the act of attributing to oneself acts of valor that were not performed by you or wearing decorations for which you are not entitled. To me, that is a slap at every service person who served honorably and has kept a low profile. Success has many fathers and failure is an orphan. __________________ Geetarman Carpe Cerveza

September 28, 2012, 07:47 AM	#56
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Having spent some time among the geriatrics at an American Legion post, I just figure on letting the Olde Pharts rattle on. No point in worrying about it. "That might not be the way it was, but it's the way it should have been." I just nod and say, "Uh-huh, yeah..." and have another beer. It's not like he's some 40-year-old on the hustle. Let him feel good in his made-up memories; he won't be around much longer. Me? I'm 78. I was mostly a REMF, sixty years ago...

September 28, 2012, 04:48 PM	#58
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	It was drummed into my head in BCT that you make sure all orders, records, etc. pertaining to you are correct, make sure your name is spelled correctly, rank and service number are correct, etc. Like making sure a hand receipt is filled out correctly and some isn't trying to pull a fast one. I've noted that so many of these "professional" veterans are usually sad looking ones, all scruffy and ill kempt, with watery eyes that have seen the bottom of too many shot glasses, seeking sympathy for a hard life with tales of woe. And the mark of a poseur is that they always served in some elite unit, went on hazardous behind the lines missions, worked for some "hush-hush" organization, and their record are sealed by "The Agency." And are an incredible crack shot.

September 28, 2012, 08:23 PM	#60
Strafer Gott Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2011 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,315	And that's some real solid morning report clerk speak right there.

September 28, 2012, 11:54 PM	#61
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Not much we can add to this that's worthwhile...