"Cowboy" loads - Page 2

cdoc42 · January 10, 2021, 09:41 PM

I never shot my .44 Mag one-handed, but I did shoot it with a red dot sight at bowling pins at 200 yards, with 2 hands, standing.

Funny thing happened. Another guy at the range came by to see what I was using at that distance.(180gr JHP). I showed him the Ruger Super Redhawk. The next week I happened to go into the local gun shop and there he was, standing at the counter. He turned and saw me and said to staffer, "That's him.!!" He was buying a Ruger SRH.

105kw · January 10, 2021, 09:43 PM

As a witness, I can verify that I have seen 44AMP clobber the 200 yard gong at the local range repeatedly. With his favorite Ruger and most of his magnum semi autos.
The gong is about 18in tall by about 12in.
Irritatingly with my brand new .357 Sig 226, with about 10 out of 12 rounds the first time he fired it.

mehavey · January 11, 2021, 12:57 AM

"44Mag/357Mag

Quote:

I have 3 autoloader pistols in those calibers...

You have autoloading pistols with those rimmed cartridges ?

I was unaware that LAR Grizzly & IMI Desert Eagle made such guns.

Now I have to get one....

**44 AMP** · January 11, 2021, 12:23 PM

Quote:

You have autoloading pistols with those rimmed cartridges ?

I was unaware that LAR Grizzly & IMI Desert Eagle made such guns.
Now I have to get one....

Yes I have autoloading pistols in those rimmed cartridges.
I have Desert Eagles in .44 & .357 Mag. My LAR is .45Win mag, but I did have one in .44 Mag some years back.

I also have a Coonan in .357 Mag.

LAR Grizzly is long out of production. Desert Eagles are still made, as of the last I knew. Magnum Research is the name, now..

Coonan was back in production year before last. No idea of their current status.

Pathfinder45 · January 11, 2021, 02:17 PM

Back to the 45 Colt in a Single-Action revolver.....
8.5 grains of Unique is such a standard because it shoots so well across a broad selection of guns. It makes it a good load to compare anything else against, so it's a good starting point. Individual guns may shoot more accurately with, say, Green Dot, or HP-38, etc., or by simply increasing or decreasing the charge by half a grain or so.

P Flados · January 11, 2021, 09:25 PM

With all of the plugging for Unique, I will throw in a different viewpoint. Even though I have been using Unique for 35 years, I really see it having value more in its flexibility than in actual performance. When I have evaluated it side by side with other powders, it never seems to perform any better than something else.

For all my high volume "economy" loads I have moved to either Promo or Titegroup. Promo is a bulk version of Red Dot available only in 8lb jugs.

My 45 colt (TC Contender) allows use of really stout loads but I gave up pushing that gun a long time ago. Unique would allow for a little hotter "mid range" load than Promo, but the difference is too small to matter for me. The 2000 Alliant Booklet for a 250 gr lead bullet gave 6.0 gr of Red Dot for 830 fps and 8.0 gr of Unique for 850 fps.

Promo is very flexible in its own right. For loads in the 38 SP, 45 Colt, 45 ACP and my various magnum handguns (32, 35 & 44), Promo is nice and bulky and gives me plenty of bang for target loads. It is also famous for widespread rifle use as "The Load" made popular by Ed Harris (13 gr of Red Dot).

I have a big jug of Unique and keep trying it when I get a new gun. As previously stated, I have yet to find a real winner with Unique.

Having mentioned Titegroup, I understand why many choose not to use it. I reserve this for a few select applications where it works better for me than Promo. Mostly I use it for either small case rounds (32 ACP, 9mm) and/or loads where the equivalent charges of Promo are too small to meter well in my RCBS powder measure.

When you combine cost per pound of the powder and required charge per load, Promo and Titegroup are probably in the top 5 for economy. Of the two I consider Promo much more of a general purpose handgun powder. Of all the more economical powders, it has probably more published load data (use Red Dot listings) than any other.

Part of the reason for my post is the knowledge that running out an buying any specific powder will be hit or miss right now. Knowing that Promo / Red Dot are reasonable options can be a good thing if you run across some for sale. Promo was in stock last week (out of stock now) at Powder Valley and was priced at only $132 for the 8 lb jug ($16.50 per pound plus shipping and Hazmat).

Pathfinder45 · January 12, 2021, 02:59 AM

I've shot a lot of Titegroup and Red Dot in 45 Colt and I concur that both are excellent for target loads in the 850 fps range, +or-. I still have and use Titegroup. I've been out of Red Dot for a while and since Titegroup does the same job, I haven't felt compelled to replace it. They are both excellent. Someone laid a partial keg of Green Dot on me that is working out quite well also. These fast burning pistol powders will gain you just a little performance boost when fired from a rifle. Unique will gain you a little bit more. As you move into even slower burning propellants there is even more to be gained in the longer barrel. I consider Unique to be one of the best, "middle-of-the-road", powders for this cartridge.

**44 AMP** · January 12, 2021, 02:00 PM

8.5gr Unique is a good, solid load essentially duplicating full power factory ammo (NOT Cowboy Action shooting loads) giving between 800-900fps depending on barrel length.

Lots of other powders will work, I use Red Dot for 850fps loads in .38 Special and could do that in .45 Colt easily enough, if I loaded my .45 Colt to 850ish (I don't)

In your Colt SAA replica, 8.5 Unique would be a good load. You can also go a little heavier if that's your desire. The old loading books have data tested in Colt SA guns using Unique to drive the 250 to slightly over 1,000fps at max. If you had enough barrel...

wjhenderson · January 12, 2021, 04:35 PM

I prefer Unique in the 45Colt but also use Titegroup.

Rifletom · January 13, 2021, 06:47 PM

Thank you Pathfinder 45[post #30] for getting us back on track. 8.0-8.5gr Unique/250gr rnfp bullet in my two Italian replica revolvers and Henry rifle work superbly. Sometimes Universal, 95%, its Unique.

January 11, 2021, 09:25 PM	#31
P Flados Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2017 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 243	With all of the plugging for Unique, I will throw in a different viewpoint. Even though I have been using Unique for 35 years, I really see it having value more in its flexibility than in actual performance. When I have evaluated it side by side with other powders, it never seems to perform any better than something else. For all my high volume "economy" loads I have moved to either Promo or Titegroup. Promo is a bulk version of Red Dot available only in 8lb jugs. My 45 colt (TC Contender) allows use of really stout loads but I gave up pushing that gun a long time ago. Unique would allow for a little hotter "mid range" load than Promo, but the difference is too small to matter for me. The 2000 Alliant Booklet for a 250 gr lead bullet gave 6.0 gr of Red Dot for 830 fps and 8.0 gr of Unique for 850 fps. Promo is very flexible in its own right. For loads in the 38 SP, 45 Colt, 45 ACP and my various magnum handguns (32, 35 & 44), Promo is nice and bulky and gives me plenty of bang for target loads. It is also famous for widespread rifle use as "The Load" made popular by Ed Harris (13 gr of Red Dot). I have a big jug of Unique and keep trying it when I get a new gun. As previously stated, I have yet to find a real winner with Unique. Having mentioned Titegroup, I understand why many choose not to use it. I reserve this for a few select applications where it works better for me than Promo. Mostly I use it for either small case rounds (32 ACP, 9mm) and/or loads where the equivalent charges of Promo are too small to meter well in my RCBS powder measure. When you combine cost per pound of the powder and required charge per load, Promo and Titegroup are probably in the top 5 for economy. Of the two I consider Promo much more of a general purpose handgun powder. Of all the more economical powders, it has probably more published load data (use Red Dot listings) than any other. Part of the reason for my post is the knowledge that running out an buying any specific powder will be hit or miss right now. Knowing that Promo / Red Dot are reasonable options can be a good thing if you run across some for sale. Promo was in stock last week (out of stock now) at Powder Valley and was priced at only $132 for the 8 lb jug ($16.50 per pound plus shipping and Hazmat). Last edited by P Flados; January 11, 2021 at 09:57 PM.

January 12, 2021, 02:00 PM	#33
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,833	8.5gr Unique is a good, solid load essentially duplicating full power factory ammo (NOT Cowboy Action shooting loads) giving between 800-900fps depending on barrel length. Lots of other powders will work, I use Red Dot for 850fps loads in .38 Special and could do that in .45 Colt easily enough, if I loaded my .45 Colt to 850ish (I don't) In your Colt SAA replica, 8.5 Unique would be a good load. You can also go a little heavier if that's your desire. The old loading books have data tested in Colt SA guns using Unique to drive the 250 to slightly over 1,000fps at max. If you had enough barrel... __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

January 10, 2021, 09:41 PM	#26
cdoc42 Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,687	I never shot my .44 Mag one-handed, but I did shoot it with a red dot sight at bowling pins at 200 yards, with 2 hands, standing. Funny thing happened. Another guy at the range came by to see what I was using at that distance.(180gr JHP). I showed him the Ruger Super Redhawk. The next week I happened to go into the local gun shop and there he was, standing at the counter. He turned and saw me and said to staffer, "That's him.!!" He was buying a Ruger SRH.

January 10, 2021, 09:43 PM	#27
105kw Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2017 Location: Columbia Basin Washington Posts: 414	As a witness, I can verify that I have seen 44AMP clobber the 200 yard gong at the local range repeatedly. With his favorite Ruger and most of his magnum semi autos. The gong is about 18in tall by about 12in. Irritatingly with my brand new .357 Sig 226, with about 10 out of 12 rounds the first time he fired it.

January 11, 2021, 02:17 PM	#30
Pathfinder45 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Posts: 3,224	We're Drifting Off Course.... Back to the 45 Colt in a Single-Action revolver..... 8.5 grains of Unique is such a standard because it shoots so well across a broad selection of guns. It makes it a good load to compare anything else against, so it's a good starting point. Individual guns may shoot more accurately with, say, Green Dot, or HP-38, etc., or by simply increasing or decreasing the charge by half a grain or so. Last edited by Pathfinder45; January 11, 2021 at 02:18 PM. Reason: spelling

January 12, 2021, 02:59 AM	#32
Pathfinder45 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Posts: 3,224	I've shot a lot of Titegroup and Red Dot in 45 Colt and I concur that both are excellent for target loads in the 850 fps range, +or-. I still have and use Titegroup. I've been out of Red Dot for a while and since Titegroup does the same job, I haven't felt compelled to replace it. They are both excellent. Someone laid a partial keg of Green Dot on me that is working out quite well also. These fast burning pistol powders will gain you just a little performance boost when fired from a rifle. Unique will gain you a little bit more. As you move into even slower burning propellants there is even more to be gained in the longer barrel. I consider Unique to be one of the best, "middle-of-the-road", powders for this cartridge.

January 12, 2021, 04:35 PM	#34
wjhenderson Member Join Date: May 17, 2010 Location: GA Posts: 25	I prefer Unique in the 45Colt but also use Titegroup.

January 13, 2021, 06:47 PM	#35
Rifletom Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2011 Location: So-Cal Posts: 789	Thank you Pathfinder 45[post #30] for getting us back on track. 8.0-8.5gr Unique/250gr rnfp bullet in my two Italian replica revolvers and Henry rifle work superbly. Sometimes Universal, 95%, its Unique.