Canada hires IBM for help in gun buy backs

DaleA · January 2, 2021, 05:13 PM

I honestly don't know what to make of this.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/feds...gram-1.5249995

I REALIZE IBM is a big computer company but I can't work up any enthusiasm for suspecting they have nefarious means of getting information on who owns what in the Canadian firearms world. Also the 1.2 million the contract is worth to IBM is kind of on the order of lunch money isn't it?

Here's some info from the article.

Quote:

Under the first phase of the contract, to be completed by Feb. 8, IBM will consult with other federal agencies, possibly other levels of government and industry experts to devise options that include:
-- a compensation plan for each affected firearm;
-- analysis of benefits and risks associated with each compensation model; and
-- identification of "other considerations" that might affect the feasibility of each approach.
A second phase of the project will entail any necessary review and revision of the program design, as well as implementation of the selected options.

"The program will focus on ensuring it offers fair compensation to affected owners and businesses while at the same time making sure program implementation and management costs are well-priced and sustainable," said Tim Warmington, a Public Safety Canada spokesman.

I fail to see where IBM brings any firearms knowledge that would seem to be needed to accomplish the above goals.

Maybe IBM can tie together some government agencies databases which would give them quicker access as to who-has-what firearmswise but right now, given the above information I'm not seeing much to get alarmed about.

But I'm sometimes pretty naive.

**44 AMP** · January 2, 2021, 07:56 PM

Quote:

I fail to see where IBM brings any firearms knowledge that would seem to be needed to accomplish the above goals.

No "firearms knowledge" is needed. The firearm is simply an item, the same as any item, put in a box as data and manipulated. IBM will be looking at various models handling the data and work for the most efficient one to achieve the desired result stated.

IT could be firearms, or bricks or apples or anything, its not about the real world item as much as it is about creating or debugging a system to get what the customer wants.

If that happens to be a system to allow a buy back or a forced confiscation, that's probably not a big concern for IBM's beancounters.

DMK · January 2, 2021, 08:20 PM

Quote:

I fail to see where IBM brings any firearms knowledge

IBM did make M1 Carbines during WW2.

44 Amp is right. It's a Widget as far as they are concerned. It's up to the govt to get the correct data to them. And it's also the govt's fault that this is required in the first place. It's also the gov't responsibility to keep them in check. (and the people's responsibility to keep the gov't in check - this is where it falls apart)

People (conservatives, centrists, and liberals alike) try to anthropomorphize corporations and paint them as good or evil. They are neither. The primary drive of a corporation is to make a profit. They do this only within the boundaries and limitations of what the law allows and what their customers will tolerate. Sometimes the former is more flexible than it should be, (cough) political contributions (cough).

Corporations may act in a way that appears like they are taking a moral stance, but they are not. They are calculating that customers will make decisions based on the corp's actions and that said stance (marketing campaign actually) will make a profit for them. Even if a corporation says that they may be pro-[insert cause here], they are just catering to a particular customer base and hoping to sway their purchasing decisions. Or they are trying to head off lawsuits or legislation that may cut into their profit margin.

In this case, IBM sees Big Govt as their customer, certainly not the sportsman or self defense minded citizen. In a way, they aren't that different from Colt actually.

Carriertxv · January 3, 2021, 12:52 AM

Well seeing as IBM helped Hitler they would have the experience to take our guns away up here. The US government was their number one customer and hitler was number two.
Just have to google it. Edwin Black has written several books about it.
IBM is also responsible for the disastrous Phoenix pay system for the Canadian Federal government. IBM executives received millions in performance money and the employees got screwed big time.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...-ibm-1.5135545

And to add Its not about IBM having any firearms knowledge. They have the ability to track and control just like they did for Hitler.
Also the Liberals have had this out for tender since the ban last year and several companies refused it. So one has to assume that the liberals and IBM executives have reached a lucrative kick back scheme.

Tony Z · January 3, 2021, 06:26 AM

Every recorded transaction is a potential database. IBM has built their business at extrapolating information by relating databases.

I would be more concerned about the likes of Google or Amazon, far more thoroughly modern in their population wide data gathering. What could be inferred by examining purchasing practices, such as the reloading dies you got last week? Or your online purchases of AR parts (or rough components)? Maybe the 3D printer?

Trudeau and Canada are at least operating in the open. Our friends in the Great North know what to expect and I would be more concerned about what is happening under our own noses.

**44 AMP** · January 3, 2021, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Well seeing as IBM helped Hitler they would have the experience to take our guns away up here. The US government was their number one customer and hitler was number two.

I rather doubt the people making decisions for IBM in the 1930s and 40s are the people making decisions for IBM today. And, of course the "corporate greed" that had IBM doing business with Hitler (and what business?? selling adding machines???) that ended 75 YEARS AGO , must be what they are doing now??

My guess would be IBM is doing now what they did then, not letting politics get in the way of making a buck.

Ignition Override · January 4, 2021, 01:00 PM

44 AMP:
The fact that all of those former IBM Upper Mgmt. people (during WW2) are no longer formulating corporate policy.... will truly shock some of the people here.

Be gentle with them as this Developing News sinks in .

**44 AMP** · January 4, 2021, 03:24 PM

Yeah, Developing News is only slightly behind Breaking News, isn't it??

Saw an article on the "news page" of MSN a couple weeks ago, about a plane crash. Sounded like recent, so I checked, turns out that the plane had crashed in 84, and was well covered in an episode of Air Disasters a decade or more, ago.

Developing news, right???

ghbucky · January 4, 2021, 04:34 PM

re: the 1.2M

It ain't huge, but a LOT of IT consulting projects are in that ballpark. Also, note that is the 1st phase of a project. Most of that will be spent building a working relationship with the client and finding out what the specific requirements are before they can actually start to deliver.

DaleA · January 4, 2021, 05:17 PM

Given that IBM cares naught about the "widgets" it is databasing/counting I can see them setting up some kind of system the Canadian government SAYS it wants and then the Canadians will find out it's not at all what they want. (Which of course is NOT the fault of IBM.)

I mean, take point one of phase one:
"figuring out a compensation plan for each affected firearm"
I would think IBM's work on this point would be to set up an EXCEL spread sheet and let the Canadians fill in the number of guns they are going to buy back and the amount of money they are going to pay for each gun and TA DA!!! IBM will supply the IT expertise to tell the Canadians the total cost of the program for that firearm. I see a row for each type of affected firearm and then believe it or not I think IBM will AUTOSUM all the rows (after the Canadians have filled in the numbers) to tell them the TOTOAL COST OF THE PROGRAM!!! (Just WOW).

I wonder if the Canadians are setting themselves up for a disappointment similar to the one they got when they tried setting up a long gun registry---which was scrapped around 2013.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielf...h=28d6b1fc5a1b

Nathan · January 4, 2021, 11:56 PM

Well on a positive note, that won’t be completed for $1.2M. I can almost be certain they will spend 3-5 times that amount before they have something tangible!

**Tom Servo** · January 5, 2021, 04:04 AM

Quote:

I can almost be certain they will spend 3-5 times that amount before they have something tangible!

In the case of their long gun registry, the overrun was far more than that.

**44 AMP** · January 6, 2021, 12:30 AM

It doesn't matter what it costs, its not coming out of their personal pockets, so they don't very much care.

It never ceases to amaze me how cavalier people get with other peoples money or property as long as the cost isn't coming from their personal pockets. Even when its their job to be careful and frugal and they are being PAID to do that, its rare they do, and even more rare there are personal penalties.

One place I worked wanted to extend a loading dock 6 feet. They budgeted $100,000 to do it. (ok, this was nearly 40 years ago). Govt contract, Union labor, etc., spent $80,000 doing the engineering study and then didn't have enough money left to build the dock extension. Since no more money was forthcoming, project got canceled, nothing was built.

But by gosh the engineers and labor execs got PAID, and up front, too!

Brit · January 6, 2021, 03:35 AM

IBM and Canada firearms help? Many years ago, on Avenue Road Toronto, in a Starbucks, I met a Computer Wizard, he saw my Glock Hat, started talking to me, about his job with the FBI in Quantico, his job, cause all the firearms to be made in a semblance of order (There was a bunch missing!) his rough count (10,000) were missing

At that time Revolvers were the duty handgun, seems like no one handed them back into stock. When their retirement rolled around.

January 4, 2021, 01:00 PM	#7
Ignition Override Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2008 Location: About 20 nm from the Big Muddy Posts: 2,887	44 AMP: The fact that all of those former IBM Upper Mgmt. people (during WW2) are no longer formulating corporate policy.... will truly shock some of the people here. Be gentle with them as this Developing News sinks in . Last edited by Ignition Override; January 5, 2021 at 12:56 AM.

January 4, 2021, 03:24 PM	#8
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,833	Yeah, Developing News is only slightly behind Breaking News, isn't it?? Saw an article on the "news page" of MSN a couple weeks ago, about a plane crash. Sounded like recent, so I checked, turns out that the plane had crashed in 84, and was well covered in an episode of Air Disasters a decade or more, ago. Developing news, right??? __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

January 6, 2021, 12:30 AM	#13
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,833	It doesn't matter what it costs, its not coming out of their personal pockets, so they don't very much care. It never ceases to amaze me how cavalier people get with other peoples money or property as long as the cost isn't coming from their personal pockets. Even when its their job to be careful and frugal and they are being PAID to do that, its rare they do, and even more rare there are personal penalties. One place I worked wanted to extend a loading dock 6 feet. They budgeted $100,000 to do it. (ok, this was nearly 40 years ago). Govt contract, Union labor, etc., spent $80,000 doing the engineering study and then didn't have enough money left to build the dock extension. Since no more money was forthcoming, project got canceled, nothing was built. But by gosh the engineers and labor execs got PAID, and up front, too! __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

January 3, 2021, 12:52 AM	#4
Carriertxv Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2013 Posts: 268	Well seeing as IBM helped Hitler they would have the experience to take our guns away up here. The US government was their number one customer and hitler was number two. Just have to google it. Edwin Black has written several books about it. IBM is also responsible for the disastrous Phoenix pay system for the Canadian Federal government. IBM executives received millions in performance money and the employees got screwed big time. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...-ibm-1.5135545 And to add Its not about IBM having any firearms knowledge. They have the ability to track and control just like they did for Hitler. Also the Liberals have had this out for tender since the ban last year and several companies refused it. So one has to assume that the liberals and IBM executives have reached a lucrative kick back scheme.

January 3, 2021, 06:26 AM	#5
Tony Z Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2013 Location: North Central Pennsyltucky Posts: 749	Every recorded transaction is a potential database. IBM has built their business at extrapolating information by relating databases. I would be more concerned about the likes of Google or Amazon, far more thoroughly modern in their population wide data gathering. What could be inferred by examining purchasing practices, such as the reloading dies you got last week? Or your online purchases of AR parts (or rough components)? Maybe the 3D printer? Trudeau and Canada are at least operating in the open. Our friends in the Great North know what to expect and I would be more concerned about what is happening under our own noses.

January 4, 2021, 04:34 PM	#9
ghbucky Senior Member Join Date: June 12, 2020 Posts: 1,177	re: the 1.2M It ain't huge, but a LOT of IT consulting projects are in that ballpark. Also, note that is the 1st phase of a project. Most of that will be spent building a working relationship with the client and finding out what the specific requirements are before they can actually start to deliver.

January 4, 2021, 05:17 PM	#10
DaleA Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2002 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 5,313	Given that IBM cares naught about the "widgets" it is databasing/counting I can see them setting up some kind of system the Canadian government *SAYS* it wants and then the Canadians will find out it's not at all what they want. (Which of course is NOT the fault of IBM.) I mean, take point one of phase one: "figuring out a compensation plan for each affected firearm" I would think IBM's work on this point would be to set up an EXCEL spread sheet and let the Canadians fill in the number of guns they are going to buy back and the amount of money they are going to pay for each gun and TA DA!!! IBM will supply the IT expertise to tell the Canadians the total cost of the program for that firearm. I see a row for each type of affected firearm and then believe it or not I think IBM will AUTOSUM all the rows (after the Canadians have filled in the numbers) to tell them the TOTOAL COST OF THE PROGRAM!!! (Just WOW). I wonder if the Canadians are setting themselves up for a disappointment similar to the one they got when they tried setting up a long gun registry---which was scrapped around 2013. https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielf...h=28d6b1fc5a1b

January 4, 2021, 11:56 PM	#11
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,331	Well on a positive note, that won’t be completed for $1.2M. I can almost be certain they will spend 3-5 times that amount before they have something tangible!

January 6, 2021, 03:35 AM	#14
Brit Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2005 Location: Orlando FL Posts: 1,934	IBM and Canada firearms help? Many years ago, on Avenue Road Toronto, in a Starbucks, I met a Computer Wizard, he saw my Glock Hat, started talking to me, about his job with the FBI in Quantico, his job, cause all the firearms to be made in a semblance of order (There was a bunch missing!) his rough count (10,000) were missing At that time Revolvers were the duty handgun, seems like no one handed them back into stock. When their retirement rolled around.