Cleaning cases

[Oldboy3]

Ive read some people soak brass in a vinegar/ na-chloride solution. As I suspect reloading began before tumblers my question is as long as I use a primer pocket cleaner,is tumbling necessary? Thanks.

[dahermit]

Ive read some people soak brass in a vinegar/ na-chloride solution. As I suspect reloading began before tumblers my question is as long as I use a primer pocket cleaner,is tumbling necessary?

I handloaded for years without a tumbler. So, the answer is no, a tumbler is nice/convenient to have but not necessary. Make sure there is no sand on your brass before sizing and if you use a case lube, remove/clean it off when done. Also, the only primer pockets I clean are on bottle-neck cases because I use a single stage press for those. On progressive presses and handgun cases, the primer pockets are not usually taken out of the cycle to clean them. So generally, it is not necessary to clean the pockets either.

[CajunBass]

I tried some kind of solution to soak/clean cases many years ago. It was messy and inconvenient as all get out.

I got an inexpensive tumbler from Frankford Arsenal (about $35.00 IIRC) and never looked back.

But to answer your question, no it's not really necessary to clean the cases, but it's a lot neater and cleaner.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Soaking brass in a vinegar solution is a bad idea. If left in the solution very long, the acid will leach the copper out of the brass, causing the brass to become brittle.

You have posted in the revolver section, so I am assuming you are reloading for a revolver. One of the benefits of tumbling brass is it removes any grit that may have gotten on your brass if the brass fell to the ground. Grit (particles of sand) is hard, and if left on the brass it will scratch your dies, which will then in turn scratch the rest of your brass. If you dump your empties right into your hand or a bag, you will not get grit on them. If you dump them on the ground, you will.

Rinsing your brass in water, not soaking in a vinegar solution, will remove grit, but tumbling brass is so easy, I don't know why anybody would mess with rinsing their brass. I do rinse my Black Powder brass before tumbling and reloading it, but that is a different story.

You can save some money by not buying tumbling media but instead go to the pet store and buy some Lizard Litter. It is the same crushed walnut shells as some brands of tumbler media, but it is less expensive.

Don't bother cleaning out primer pockets, it is wasted effort. I never clean out primer pockets except for my long range Black Powder 45-70 rounds. Everything else, 45 Colt, 45 Schofield, 44-40, 44 Special, 38-40, and 38 Special I just decap/resize, then go right to seating a new primer. On a progressive press there is no option for cleaning out primer pockets unless you take them off the press after decap/resize, clean out the primer pockets, and then put them back on the press again. Waste of time.

One more thing. You can add different things to your Lizard Litter to make your brass shinier, but super shiny brass does not shoot any better than brass that has been stained a little. It is just easier to find in the grass.

[BigJimP]

I don't clean primer pockets on any handgun brass....

I tumbe the brass with spent primers intact ...with a little polish in crushed walnut shell media / sort out anything that looks bad ..and put in a box ready to go into the case feeder. ( cases are resized and deprimed in station 1 of my progressive loader ).

I wouldn not suggest using any kind of liquid cleaners / its a real hassle to dry the brass and get any residual liquid out of the cases.

[DaleA]

Just read Driftwood Johnson's post #4 a few more times. It's got the information you need.

FWIW for years after I started reloading I cleaned my brass with a rag and a little lighter fluid. It did it so I didn't scratch up my dies. But as Driftwood Johnson says a tumbler is so much easier and so economical that that should be the way to go.

[dakota1911]

I used to wipe my brass off with a rag also, but tumblers are just a lot easier if you shoot a lot.

[2afreedom]

I just wash dirty brass in a mild solution of dish detergent, rinse and let it air dry. It doesn't look as nice as tumbled brass but it makes no difference in the shooting.

[Brutus]

I beg to differ, I've said it before and I'll say it again tumbling your brass and not cleaning the primer pocket is akin to washing your pants but not your underware

[Driftwood Johnson]

I beg to differ, I've said it before and I'll say it again tumbling your brass and not cleaning the primer pocket is akin to washing your pants but not your underware

You can make whatever cute analogy you want, but I never clean out primer pockets, except for my long range, Black Powder 45-70 ammo. Have not cleaned out a primer pocket in years.

If it was so important to clean out primer pockets, why is there no provision for it on a progressive press? I have known guys who ran all their cases through just the decap/resize die, then threw all the decapped brass into their tumbler to clean out the primer pockets, then ran all their brass through the rest of the dies; belling, powder drop, seat and crimp. I tried it once. Complete waste of time. Never bothered again. When you are loading 300 or 400 or more rounds on a progressive press you want to crank out rounds, not waste time doing something completely unnecessary.

I will add that when shooting Black Powder in modern cartridges, there will eventually be a small amount of sludge that forms on the floor of the primer pocket. In some cases, this amount of sludge will build up enough to prevent the primer from seating all the way, leaving primers slightly proud of the case head. Even then, I have never had a primer fail to fire.

But when loading Smokeless, it is just unnecessary to clean out the primer pocket. You just don't get enough build up of fouling on the floor of the primer pocket to amount to anything.

[9x45]

Precision rifle, yes, clean the pockets, but you don't need to clean primer pockets for pistol, it's just not necessary because there is absolutely no discernable difference in accuracy even out to 200 yards. For action pistol competitions, it's a complete waste of time as most shots are 3-15 yards. Wet tumbling with SS pins does make brass look better than new, but it's allot of trouble compared to tumbling. My method has always been tumble first in walnut with a couple of teaspoons of mineral oil, then in corn with a couple of teaspoons of NuFinish car polish. Both run over night because it's an offline operation. Run open top because there is no dust and the media lasts much longer. Takes crap range pickup brass to shiny and slippery, ready to load. Don't even need to use case lube. I average about 15,000 to 18,000 rounds a year.

.

[cw308]

Oldboy3, If you just wipe off your brass & reload it will shoot. Clean brass eliminates problems with dies, chambering & more accurate reloads. If you had one choice, would you shoot the clean or tarnished round. Cajunbrass I would agree with, with stainless steel pins, water dawn dish soap & lemishine. That's from a guy that tumbled brass for 25+ years with media. Remove spent primers first, will clean pockets. Makes brass like new, after cleaning with media I would find some media stuck in the bottle neck cases.

[603Country]

I rarely tumble rifle brass, but always tumble pistol brass - just to clean it up. I bought a Harbor Freight vibrating unit and their crushed walnut shells. Works just fine. I tumble before resizing, to keep from plugging flash holes.

[polyphemus]

Precision rifle, yes, clean the pockets, but you don't need to clean primer pockets for pistol, it's just not necessary because there is absolutely no discernable difference in accuracy even out to 200 yards.

ok,so no discernible difference out to 200yd for pistol? long shot indeed.
But it makes a difference beyond that.It was my understanding that clean primer pockets,rifle and pistol prevented high primer incidence and promoted consistent
firing,at some point after repeated use carbon build up has to interfere with seating and might even be ejected thru the vent.How is this more of an issue and improve accuracy only with rifle ammo?

[Brutus]

Some folks clean them others don't. There is no right or wrong, it's just a matter of what you have convinced yourself is necessary or not. I personally clean the pockets in my quest to reload perfect ammo. It's part of the ritual of my hobby as I desire to make the most accurate ammo I possibly can. I don't use a progressive press and never will but thats just me.
As a side note, I have an RCBS case prep tool and it always amazes me the size of the pile of residue left under my cleaning brush even after as little as 100 pieces of brass has passed through it.

[9x45]

polyphemus, for pistol, no difference at all. I've loaded reloaded over 500,000 pistol rounds and never cleaned the pockets in just the last 22 years. For precision rifle, .243WIN I clean the pockets but only load about 40 rounds a year for hunting.

Do you shoot pistol to beyond 200 yards?

[Average Joe]

Washing brass and drying is a lengthy process for me. I just tumble in walnut shells for an hour or so, cleans them up good enough to get them dirty again.

[polyphemus]

Do you shoot pistol to beyond 200 yards?

Yeah,sure!
Serious though,I shoot in my backyard 50' range at a 4.5" target.On a good day I put six seven holes in it.
And I do scrape the primer pockets clean because if I don't then I get high primers.

[9x45]

Poly, if you get high primers there is something wrong with your seating method. What press are you loading on? What primers are you using? What gun are you shooting?

Yes, 200 yards, also serious. I used to shoot Hunter Silhouette locally with my G20, 10mm, never cleaned primer pockets. Loaded on a Dillon Square Deal, auto indexing progressive.

[polyphemus]

Poly, if you get high primers there is something wrong with your seating method. What press are you loading on? What primers are you using? What gun are you shooting?

Since I started scraping the pockets clean
strangely enough I no longer get high primers.
Lee cast turret.
Winchester large and small.
I only load and shoot .45 AUTO.
I have a handful of 1911's but right now I'm shooting the R1.

[briandg]

You might try what I do. I have a light canvas bank bag, and in case of really dirty brass, I load it into the bag and run it through my washing machine with a load of jeans. Clean brass, I put it on a tray and heat it on an old hot plate to dry.

[9x45]

Poly, I don't know anyone who shoots competition that cleans the primer pockets, and were talking 25,000 shooters every weekend burning 200-300 caps. Yes, there can be variation between primer brand and case head stamp, but only by a few thousands. And high strikes in a 1911, or any hammer fired gun is very unusual. Glocks are sensitive to high primers, but 1911s are known to beat high primers to death.

Is there no seating depth adjustment for the primer anvil, like on a Dillon Press?

[F. Guffey]

Soaking brass in a vinegar solution is a bad idea. If left in the solution very long, the acid will leach the copper out of the brass, causing the brass to become brittle.

I have heard that, I do not believe it but I have heard that. There should be a discipline among reloaders; I use distance, time, weight and percentages. I have cleaned the worst of cases in vinegar. Being a disciplined reloader I use 5% vinegar, when I use 5% vinegar I set a time limit. I limit the time to 15 minutes. The 15 minutes applies to the life of the case meaning I clean the worst of cases one, after cleaning the cases in vinegar I rinse the cases in boiling water. I rinse the cases in boiling water twice and allow the residual heat in the case to dry the case. And then I tumble, cleaning the case in vinegar reduces tumbling time by days and days.

When the case is cleaned in an acid it does not get a time-out because the case is being cleaned in an acid because the acid is not vinegar. Reloaders have too many different standards. That is the way it is when they do not have disciplines.

And then there were the old days. In the old days a reloader did not forget to remove the cases from the acid because there would be no case left in a very short time. Again, I clean the worst of cases in vinegar for 15 minutes, it is not necessary to go the full 15 minutes but I use 15 minutes for the maximum. In the old days the maximum amount of time was 2 minutes. I also cleaned cast iron and old tools in the same stuff.

F. Guffey

[F. Guffey]

And then there is that scary part caused by not understanding what is going on, If vinegar is too dangerous reduce it with water, Adding a quart of water to a quart of vinegar gives the reloader a solution of 2.5%. And remember before using the vinegar to clean cases with it can be applied to a salad.

F. Guffey

[polyphemus]

Is there no seating depth adjustment for the primer anvil, like on a Dillon Press?

No there isn't and that doesn't seem to be an issue,like I said I tried way back to go without cleaning and it didn't work out too good and high primers don't
fire the first strike,sometimes the second and as far as I'm concerned that's unacceptable so again I go the extra step and I have top quality rounds to show for it.