Moderators-I beg your kind indulgence for an OT post to the LEO's...

Kentucky Rifle · June 11, 2002, 10:01 AM

I put this in "Legal" because that's where it seemed to fit best. This is going to sound awful, and I guess it is. We have some dear friends who have an older child living at home while he finished school. He's 30 years old. (To me, who left home at 14, this is amazing.) Still, he seems like a...awww sh#t!
I can't make this sound better. I'll just lay it out. He was caught on a DUI for the third time last week. THIRD!!! This is Kentucky. What's likely to happen to him? His parents are worried sick. (No guns in the car, but he blew a 1.4 after a night of sleep. He was pulled over because he didn't fully stop at a stop sign.)

Kentucky Rifle

Coronach · June 11, 2002, 10:20 AM

As to whats gonna happen, due to ths DUI, I dunno. He'll likely get a stiff fine and lose his license for a while. However, I strongly suspect that if this is his 3rd DUI, he will probably drive anyway without his license, and continue to run afoul of the law until he ends up in jail, or kills someone, or himself.

He needs help.

Mike

Jim V · June 11, 2002, 10:50 AM

I don't know Kentucky law but here in Michigan DUI (or was we call it OUIL) 3rd would mean jail time upon conviction. None of the 90 days stuff either.

What was the time period between convictions? Were any reduced to lesser included charges? We have "driving while impared" What is the BAC lower limit for DUI? .08 or highter or lower? If he has a good attorney he may beable to plea to a lesser charge if the time between convictions is great enough. However, if I were him or his parents, I'd be worried about him not being at home for a good while.

If he gets into rehab ASAP, like yesterday, and really shows that he wants help, that may be of help when he appears before the judge.

Kentucky Rifle · June 11, 2002, 11:34 AM

Coronach: On DUI charge #2, he lost his driver's license for a whole year. Plus, the fine was very "stiff".

Jim V: Kentucky's limit is .08 and he blew a 1.4 even after a night's sleep! I'm not sure about the time between convictions, but I can easily remember them all, so they haven't been that far apart. Maybe he can live in a "half-way" house and keep his job or do a "house arrest" thing. (I've heard of things like that.) However, I really do suspect their might be some jail time here. I don't know how he'd survive that. He's a shy young man who drinks too much alcohol to compensate for his shyness. He goes to court next month. I reckon it's all up to the judge, but in Kentucky, judges are REALLY cracking down on DUI's and this is his third as an adult.
Thanks for the replies. Maybe I'll get some more, but anyway I look at this--He's screwed.

KR

**Mike Irwin** · June 11, 2002, 11:35 AM

A 1.4?

If he blew a 1.4, he did it during the autopsy.

If he blew a POINT 14, that's still well over the legal limit, and if he blew that after a night's sleep, he was likely around .20-.22 when he went to bed.

If he was able to remain standing with that kind of alcohol load in his system, and this is the third time he's been caught, the only conclusion that can be drawn is that he is not only a regular, heavy drinker, but an alcoholic.

Ledbetter · June 11, 2002, 12:17 PM

The local public defenders' office, if there is one, may be able to give you some general information over the phone. In California, there are statutory minimum amounts of jail time for second, third, fourth offenses, and for driving on a suspended license.

Regards.

warddc · June 11, 2002, 12:23 PM

I believe that if that had happened here in NY state the third dui is a felony. There is a 'three strikes and your out' law. I don't know about Kentucky however.

d.

Kentucky Rifle · June 11, 2002, 12:54 PM

I guess I THINK faster than I type. I put the decimal point in the wrong place. However, I do agree with you on the alcoholic part. It's a shame, but I do agree.

KR

DCR · June 11, 2002, 01:08 PM

Much will depend on the statute and timing. In many states, two DUI's within 5 years of each other brings enhanced penalties. Without looking at your statutes, it is unclear whether he faces a felony or misdemeanor charge.

It is not entirely unheard of, though, with good legal representation and lots of begging, to get it "reduced" to a second-time offense. Basically, if the prosecutor agrees, and the judge allows it, everyone "pretends" it's really only a second offense. Often happens so the case can be closed quickly with a guilty plea to a DUI, and the defendant usually has to enter treatment (I always required inpatient for 6 weeks at a minimum) and continued treatment, counselling, antabuse, license revocation, fines and jail. Wouldn't be surprised to see some jail first, then in-patient treatment after the sentence, with a ton of jail time suspended in case he screws up any portion of probation.

Best wishes, but I hope they keep the drunk off your roads for a long time. It's you and your family and friends he's endangering.

LawDog · June 11, 2002, 01:25 PM

In Texas, a second or subsequent conviction of DWI results in the judge ordering the offender to have installed a device in each one of his vehicles which prevents the starting of the vehicle without the offender blowing into a breath-tester.

This is something that y'all might look into.

Around these parts, a third conviction of DWI is a felony.

LawDog

C.R.Sam · June 11, 2002, 02:40 PM

1. He needs help.

2. The rest of the citizens need protection...
From him.

Sam

DD698 · June 11, 2002, 03:36 PM

Jim V: Isnt duil a 3rd time in Michigan a felony that could send someone to prison?

Jim V · June 11, 2002, 03:49 PM

Yep, but many cases are plead down to OUIL 2nd. That results in County Jail time not prison.

Kentucky Rifle · June 11, 2002, 04:00 PM

And also, I guess he had it coming.
I'll post what happens. (Court date in July.) As I said before, it's going to be determined by which judge he gets, but it's NOT going to be pretty. I wish he's change a little. He's killing his parents with worry.

KR

stevetuna · June 11, 2002, 04:22 PM

No offense ment, KY Rifle, but this kid needs to hit bottom. His parents are enabling him to continue this bad behavior by acting as his safety nets and life support system.

Take it from someone who's been there - I started to grow up the day I was held responsible for my actions. This guy can still turn it around but he needs to get some help and quick! As Sam pointed out, the child he runs over in his next drunken trek could be mine or yours.

It sure sounds like your friends are doing all they can to be good parents. As hard as it might be for them, they must let their little birdie go over the edge of the nest right now. If he straightens up and flies right, he'll thank them forever. My prayers to the three of them.

Kentucky Rifle · June 11, 2002, 07:33 PM

I agree with you. Whether his parents will agree is a different story.

KR

M1911 · June 11, 2002, 08:49 PM

I agree with stevetuna. Unfortunately, his parents are likely acting as enablers. One of my sisters is an alcoholic. The fact that she can live at home and sponge off my Dad is preventing her from hitting rock bottom and facing what she's doing to herself. I suspect the same is true of your friend's son.

I pray for your friends and their son. I can tell you from my experience that watching a loved one do this to themselves is a terrible thing. The best act of love you could do for your friends and their son is to try to convince them that he needs in-patient treatment.

M1911

Coronach · June 11, 2002, 11:23 PM

Here in Ohio we have a decent DUI system, on paper. In practice it is abysmal, with people out and about (sometimes with licenses!) with double-digit DUI encounters. Sounds like Kentucky is somewhat better than the buckeye, but beware of what a plea bargain can do to a DUI 'conviction' (as has been mentioned already).

The blow-drive systems (a breathalyzer installed in a car) is a neat idea, but is only a moderate inconvenience to a truly dedicated alcoholic. They can be defeated by:

1. Anyone with rudimentary electrical skills
2. Sober friends
3. Borrowing cars (holy stupid people, batman! Loan your car to a drunk???)
4. buying cars and registering them to other people
5. about a dozen methods I'm forgetting

As to the BAC percentages, the old standby is:

.1 drunk
.2 really freakin drunk
.3 unfreakinconscious
.4 call the coroner

The highest BAC I have recorded in the field was the guy who backed into my cruiser (yeah, you know you're drunk when...). We could not do the Field Sobriety Tests on him (he could not stand unassisted), he could barely speak, but he was extremely happy, friendly and cooperative. He blew a .288

One officer on an adjoining precenct landed a .34 ... the guy was a true professional- could walk and talk...just not drive

Mike

Dave P · June 12, 2002, 07:50 AM

Stevetuna is right about the parents enabling and supporting their "childs" problem. He should have been kicked out of the house about 10 yrs ago!

It is very easy for family and friends to provide financial support (bail, rehab, bills, etc) and emotional support (excuses: "He's a shy young man who drinks too much alcohol "). Face it, he's a drunk! Talk about the life of Riley!

This "man" needs help, but nothing will work until he wants to change his life. Has he gone to AA yet?

KR - I am not trying to offend you, but this whole family has real problems.

Hemicuda · June 12, 2002, 08:57 AM

My mother was the prosecuting attorney in a county in northern Michigan... she once SERIOUSLY had a guy come before her with a tested (accurate) BAC of .42... that is right... OVER .4...

it was tested in a blood sample, and the breath halizer... and the guy could still walk and talk... SO, .4 won't KILL you!

Kentucky Rifle · June 12, 2002, 09:59 AM

In fact, I agree with you. It's his mother. She's so very afraid that if they kick this little mooch out of the house, he'll end up worse off. (Or maybe dead.) In my opinion, she's got to "bite the bullet" and let him sink or swim. (He's OVER 30 years old!) The one thing I know for certain is that my own father would not have let me live at home at this guy's age. No way, no how, no questions. Plus, the embarrassment of being a middle aged man who still lives at home would have killed me.
So, I won't take offense and attempt to defend the undefendable.
Oh, I forgot to say that one night he came home drunk and fell into their front steps. My wife was there and she's a Dental Hygienist. She took a look at his front tooth and it was cracked from top to bottom. She advised the mother that he needed emergency dental treatment that night. (Sigh...I really like his parents, but this "kid" has been siding downhill for a long time.) When it's your own kid and you love him like that, he's got you by the "nads".

KR

Don Gwinn · June 12, 2002, 11:12 AM

Quote:

it was tested in a blood sample, and the breath halizer... and the guy could still walk and talk... SO, .4 won't KILL you!

Well, not ALL of you, anyway. But then, neither will a .45 to the chest. I'll just go on avoiding both, thank you!
Some people are just mutants.

KR, I'm really sorry for the guy's parents. That must be something else to have to watch, and I know it would be hell to put him out on the street. Let's hope they realize it's necessary.

Kentucky Rifle · June 12, 2002, 01:51 PM

I appreciate it. The guy's father is one of the brightest men I've ever met. He's caught between a rock and a hard place with this "kid". I've thought about it some more and I honestly don't think this kid could get by on his own. I guess he's too old for the army, but he definitely needs a "structured" life. Maybe there's just no good answer at all for a problem like this one.
Thanks for the replies guys. And thank you Moderators for the lattitude you've given me to ask this OT question. I appreciate it very much.

KR

June 11, 2002, 10:01 AM	#1
Kentucky Rifle Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 1999 Location: Louisville, Kentucky Posts: 2,687	Moderators-I beg your kind indulgence for an OT post to the LEO's... I put this in "Legal" because that's where it seemed to fit best. This is going to sound awful, and I guess it is. We have some dear friends who have an older child living at home while he finished school. He's 30 years old. (To me, who left home at 14, this is amazing.) Still, he seems like a...awww sh#t! I can't make this sound better. I'll just lay it out. He was caught on a DUI for the third time last week. THIRD!!! This is Kentucky. What's likely to happen to him? His parents are worried sick. (No guns in the car, but he blew a 1.4 after a night of sleep. He was pulled over because he didn't fully stop at a stop sign.) Kentucky Rifle

June 11, 2002, 10:50 AM	#3
Jim V Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 1999 Location: SE Michigan - USA Posts: 4,038	I don't know Kentucky law but here in Michigan DUI (or was we call it OUIL) 3rd would mean jail time upon conviction. None of the 90 days stuff either. What was the time period between convictions? Were any reduced to lesser included charges? We have "driving while impared" What is the BAC lower limit for DUI? .08 or highter or lower? If he has a good attorney he may beable to plea to a lesser charge if the time between convictions is great enough. However, if I were him or his parents, I'd be worried about him not being at home for a good while. If he gets into rehab ASAP, like yesterday, and really shows that he wants help, that may be of help when he appears before the judge. __________________ *MOLON LABE* If it ain't metal, single stack & single action, it ain't a 1911 no matter what it looks like. 1911 Forum THE TUBBY CURMUDGEON

June 11, 2002, 11:34 AM	#4
Kentucky Rifle Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 1999 Location: Louisville, Kentucky Posts: 2,687	I guess it'll be pretty bad this time... Coronach: On DUI charge #2, he lost his driver's license for a whole year. Plus, the fine was very "stiff". Jim V: Kentucky's limit is .08 and he blew a 1.4 even after a night's sleep! I'm not sure about the time between convictions, but I can easily remember them all, so they haven't been that far apart. Maybe he can live in a "half-way" house and keep his job or do a "house arrest" thing. (I've heard of things like that.) However, I really do suspect their might be some jail time here. I don't know how he'd survive that. He's a shy young man who drinks too much alcohol to compensate for his shyness. He goes to court next month. I reckon it's all up to the judge, but in Kentucky, judges are REALLY cracking down on DUI's and this is his third as an adult. Thanks for the replies. Maybe I'll get some more, but anyway I look at this--He's screwed. KR

June 11, 2002, 11:35 AM	#5
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	A 1.4? If he blew a 1.4, he did it during the autopsy. If he blew a POINT 14, that's still well over the legal limit, and if he blew that after a night's sleep, he was likely around .20-.22 when he went to bed. If he was able to remain standing with that kind of alcohol load in his system, and this is the third time he's been caught, the only conclusion that can be drawn is that he is not only a regular, heavy drinker, but an alcoholic. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

June 11, 2002, 12:17 PM	#6
Ledbetter Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2000 Location: California USA Posts: 4,533	Local resources The local public defenders' office, if there is one, may be able to give you some general information over the phone. In California, there are statutory minimum amounts of jail time for second, third, fourth offenses, and for driving on a suspended license. Regards.

June 11, 2002, 10:20 AM	#2
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	As to whats gonna happen, due to ths DUI, I dunno. He'll likely get a stiff fine and lose his license for a while. However, I strongly suspect that if this is his 3rd DUI, he will probably drive anyway without his license, and continue to run afoul of the law until he ends up in jail, or kills someone, or himself. He needs help. Mike __________________ The axe bites into the door, ripping a hole in one panel. The maniac puts his face into the hole, cackling gleefully, "Here's Johnny...erk." "And here's Smith and Wesson," murmurs Coronach, Mozambiquing six rounds of .357 into the critter at a range of three feet. -Lawdog "True pacifism is the finest form of manliness. But if a man comes up to you and cuts your hand off, you don't just offer him the other one. Not if you want to go on playing the piano, you don't." -Sam Peckinpah "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

June 11, 2002, 12:23 PM	#7
warddc Member Join Date: May 28, 2002 Location: upstate NY Posts: 21	in new york I believe that if that had happened here in NY state the third dui is a felony. There is a 'three strikes and your out' law. I don't know about Kentucky however. d.

June 11, 2002, 12:54 PM	#8
Kentucky Rifle Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 1999 Location: Louisville, Kentucky Posts: 2,687	Sorry Mike... I guess I THINK faster than I type. I put the decimal point in the wrong place. However, I do agree with you on the alcoholic part. It's a shame, but I do agree. KR Last edited by Kentucky Rifle; June 11, 2002 at 03:53 PM.

June 11, 2002, 01:08 PM	#9
DCR Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 1999 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 178	Much will depend on the statute and timing. In many states, two DUI's within 5 years of each other brings enhanced penalties. Without looking at your statutes, it is unclear whether he faces a felony or misdemeanor charge. It is not entirely unheard of, though, with good legal representation and lots of begging, to get it "reduced" to a second-time offense. Basically, if the prosecutor agrees, and the judge allows it, everyone "pretends" it's really only a second offense. Often happens so the case can be closed quickly with a guilty plea to a DUI, and the defendant usually has to enter treatment (I always required inpatient for 6 weeks at a minimum) and continued treatment, counselling, antabuse, license revocation, fines and jail. Wouldn't be surprised to see some jail first, then in-patient treatment after the sentence, with a ton of jail time suspended in case he screws up any portion of probation. Best wishes, but I hope they keep the drunk off your roads for a long time. It's you and your family and friends he's endangering. __________________ I drink, therefore I am.

June 11, 2002, 01:25 PM	#10
LawDog Staff Emeritus Join Date: September 15, 1999 Location: Where am I going? Why am I in this handbasket? Posts: 4,194	In Texas, a second or subsequent conviction of DWI results in the judge ordering the offender to have installed a device in each one of his vehicles which prevents the starting of the vehicle without the offender blowing into a breath-tester. This is something that y'all might look into. Around these parts, a third conviction of DWI is a felony. LawDog __________________ "The Father wove the skein of your life a long time ago. Go and hide in a hole if you wish, but you won't live one instant longer." --The 13th Warrior Bona na Croin The LawDog Files

June 11, 2002, 02:40 PM	#11
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	1. He needs help. 2. The rest of the citizens need protection... From him. Sam

June 11, 2002, 03:36 PM	#12
DD698 Senior Member Join Date: June 3, 2002 Location: Northern Mi. Posts: 153	Michigan Law Jim V: Isnt duil a 3rd time in Michigan a felony that could send someone to prison? __________________ DD698

June 11, 2002, 03:49 PM	#13
Jim V Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 1999 Location: SE Michigan - USA Posts: 4,038	Yep, but many cases are plead down to OUIL 2nd. That results in County Jail time not prison. __________________ *MOLON LABE* If it ain't metal, single stack & single action, it ain't a 1911 no matter what it looks like. 1911 Forum THE TUBBY CURMUDGEON

June 11, 2002, 04:00 PM	#14
Kentucky Rifle Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 1999 Location: Louisville, Kentucky Posts: 2,687	Well, I guess my friend's son is toast... And also, I guess he had it coming. I'll post what happens. (Court date in July.) As I said before, it's going to be determined by which judge he gets, but it's NOT going to be pretty. I wish he's change a little. He's killing his parents with worry. KR

June 11, 2002, 04:22 PM	#15
stevetuna Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2001 Location: Nantucket, MA Posts: 258	No offense ment, KY Rifle, but this kid needs to hit bottom. His parents are enabling him to continue this bad behavior by acting as his safety nets and life support system. Take it from someone who's been there - I started to grow up the day I was held responsible for my actions. This guy can still turn it around but he needs to get some help and quick! As Sam pointed out, the child he runs over in his next drunken trek could be mine or yours. It sure sounds like your friends are doing all they can to be good parents. As hard as it might be for them, they must let their little birdie go over the edge of the nest right now. If he straightens up and flies right, he'll thank them forever. My prayers to the three of them.

June 11, 2002, 07:33 PM	#16
Kentucky Rifle Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 1999 Location: Louisville, Kentucky Posts: 2,687	Steve... I agree with you. Whether his parents will agree is a different story. KR

June 11, 2002, 08:49 PM	#17
M1911 Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2000 Posts: 4,055	I agree with stevetuna. Unfortunately, his parents are likely acting as enablers. One of my sisters is an alcoholic. The fact that she can live at home and sponge off my Dad is preventing her from hitting rock bottom and facing what she's doing to herself. I suspect the same is true of your friend's son. I pray for your friends and their son. I can tell you from my experience that watching a loved one do this to themselves is a terrible thing. The best act of love you could do for your friends and their son is to try to convince them that he needs in-patient treatment. M1911

June 11, 2002, 11:23 PM	#18
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	Here in Ohio we have a decent DUI system, on paper. In practice it is abysmal, with people out and about (sometimes with licenses!) with double-digit DUI encounters. Sounds like Kentucky is somewhat better than the buckeye, but beware of what a plea bargain can do to a DUI 'conviction' (as has been mentioned already). The blow-drive systems (a breathalyzer installed in a car) is a neat idea, but is only a moderate inconvenience to a truly dedicated alcoholic. They can be defeated by: 1. Anyone with rudimentary electrical skills 2. Sober friends 3. Borrowing cars (holy stupid people, batman! Loan your car to a drunk???) 4. buying cars and registering them to other people 5. about a dozen methods I'm forgetting As to the BAC percentages, the old standby is: .1 drunk .2 really freakin drunk .3 unfreakinconscious .4 call the coroner The highest BAC I have recorded in the field was the guy who backed into my cruiser (yeah, you know you're drunk when...). We could not do the Field Sobriety Tests on him (he could not stand unassisted), he could barely speak, but he was extremely happy, friendly and cooperative. He blew a .288 One officer on an adjoining precenct landed a .34 ... the guy was a true professional- could walk and talk...just not drive Mike __________________ The axe bites into the door, ripping a hole in one panel. The maniac puts his face into the hole, cackling gleefully, "Here's Johnny...erk." "And here's Smith and Wesson," murmurs Coronach, Mozambiquing six rounds of .357 into the critter at a range of three feet. -Lawdog "True pacifism is the finest form of manliness. But if a man comes up to you and cuts your hand off, you don't just offer him the other one. Not if you want to go on playing the piano, you don't." -Sam Peckinpah "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

June 12, 2002, 07:50 AM	#19
Dave P Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 1999 Location: North Florida Posts: 1,346	Stevetuna is right about the parents enabling and supporting their "childs" problem. He should have been kicked out of the house about 10 yrs ago! It is very easy for family and friends to provide financial support (bail, rehab, bills, etc) and emotional support (excuses: "He's a shy young man who drinks too much alcohol "). Face it, he's a drunk! Talk about the life of Riley! This "man" needs help, but nothing will work until he wants to change his life. Has he gone to AA yet? KR - I am not trying to offend you, but this whole family has real problems.

June 12, 2002, 08:57 AM	#20
Hemicuda Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2001 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,757	My mother was the prosecuting attorney in a county in northern Michigan... she once SERIOUSLY had a guy come before her with a tested (accurate) BAC of .42... that is right... OVER .4... it was tested in a blood sample, and the breath halizer... and the guy could still walk and talk... SO, .4 won't KILL you! __________________ Hemi. gun and car collector. Rare cars, and rarer guns.

June 12, 2002, 09:59 AM	#21
Kentucky Rifle Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 1999 Location: Louisville, Kentucky Posts: 2,687	I'm not offended, Dave... In fact, I agree with you. It's his mother. She's so very afraid that if they kick this little mooch out of the house, he'll end up worse off. (Or maybe dead.) In my opinion, she's got to "bite the bullet" and let him sink or swim. (He's OVER 30 years old!) The one thing I know for certain is that my own father would not have let me live at home at this guy's age. No way, no how, no questions. Plus, the embarrassment of being a middle aged man who still lives at home would have killed me. So, I won't take offense and attempt to defend the undefendable. Oh, I forgot to say that one night he came home drunk and fell into their front steps. My wife was there and she's a Dental Hygienist. She took a look at his front tooth and it was cracked from top to bottom. She advised the mother that he needed emergency dental treatment that night. (Sigh...I really like his parents, but this "kid" has been siding downhill for a long time.) When it's your own kid and you love him like that, he's got you by the "nads". KR

June 12, 2002, 01:51 PM	#23
Kentucky Rifle Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 1999 Location: Louisville, Kentucky Posts: 2,687	Thanks Don... I appreciate it. The guy's father is one of the brightest men I've ever met. He's caught between a rock and a hard place with this "kid". I've thought about it some more and I honestly don't think this kid could get by on his own. I guess he's too old for the army, but he definitely needs a "structured" life. Maybe there's just no good answer at all for a problem like this one. Thanks for the replies guys. And thank you Moderators for the lattitude you've given me to ask this OT question. I appreciate it very much. KR

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